Dancer Archive
Thread: New Inspirations on TC!
Lol, Eshie can't go to every thread where they are using the bot scare tactics... she'd be all over the place. 
They keep saying "all our guilds will have a buff bot Ent Alt and those stupid Dancers think this will make us go to NPC Cantinas"... and all I can think is, "so?"
Even in the early days when we only had BF to pull people into Cantinas, lots of guilds had an AFK Bot in a house instead to heal mind wounds and BF. Houses always allowed guild alts to happen, even before player cities and cantinas. It's just not that big of a deal.
One of the advantages to being in a big guild is ease of play and ease of access to things you would have a hard time coming across as a solo player. Nothing will stomp out guild alts ever... and why should we want to?
Some guilds will recruit Dancers and Musicians and they will do the buffing when they are on. Some guilded crafters might decide to hand craft away from home and go into a public Cantina instead or use an area search for the planet they are currently on. Some crafters will enjoy working with one Ent in particular just like they enjoy working with one Ranger or one Merchant or one BE or a store partner.
Some is enough. *shrug* Will it be enough gameplay to keep Ents happy round the clock? Eh, probably not, but no buffing/healing set up we ever had was and this has the potential to be a lot better for us. We probably also need a fame system or informant content too to have a truly full plate, but that doesn't negate the worth of these buffs to us in the big picture.
This is a good thing and we're going to try it. If a few crafters are dead set on being fully independent through multiple accounts, who cares? I'll just buff the other ones, they are probably more my style of player anyway. 
NJ62 wrote:
I just have to point this out:
Esharra wrote: At Novice Dancer - Chef, Tailor, Bio-engineer, Merchant, Image Designer, Musician
Ahem. Are you a chef, tailor, bio-engineer, merchant, image designer, or musician? If not, your crafter buffs come from a musician. Therefore, the arguments of an armorsmith or weaponsmith are off-topic for this forum.
Oh noes! An off-topic post! Summon a moderator immediately!
Please direct your complaints to the musician forum. Tee hee!
Scip is gonna kill me for sending this argument to his forum.
Oh no he won't! *stands in front of n'Jessi and wards off Scip with the Cheese Flag*
Esharra wrote:
NJ62 wrote:
I just have to point this out:
Esharra wrote: At Novice Dancer - Chef, Tailor, Bio-engineer, Merchant, Image Designer, Musician
Ahem. Are you a chef, tailor, bio-engineer, merchant, image designer, or musician? If not, your crafter buffs come from a musician. Therefore, the arguments of an armorsmith or weaponsmith are off-topic for this forum.
Oh noes! An off-topic post! Summon a moderator immediately!
Please direct your complaints to the musician forum. Tee hee!
Scip is gonna kill me for sending this argument to his forum.
Oh no he won't! *stands in front of n'Jessi and wards off Scip with the Cheese Flag*
Well really, you'd think people only knew about Dancers, hehe. They keep saying Dancer in the AS and WS forums too and I want to politely correct them, but I am trying to be on very best behavior. /halo
Also, I do not approve of this page going wide! I browse forums in a little tiny window and I hate side scrolling! 
Quick, someone kill this page!
Ecnirp wrote:
Esharra wrote:
Muzz wrote:
Who is trolling? The point is, just as there were numerous Doc ALTs for buffing pre-CU, this is now likely to happen in guilds with alot of crafters after this goes live. When someone needs a buff, switch over to the ALT, dance/play and buff the crafters, switch back to main.
It's not trolling, it's pointing something outthat you should be concerned about and may well have an impact on your profession.
I realize you aren't a dancer and are probably unaware of our history. After 1.5 years of buff bots and the last several months of FS grinders, there are very few of us who even go to NPC cantinas. We are the ones who own the guild's player city cantinas. We are the ones who have built habits of traveling to our customers. I think you'll find that the vast majority of us don't mind if you get your buffs from God himself, as long as he's at the keyboard to provide the service.
What is a concern to me right now is how this forum is being stormed by players who are afraid that if we get something worth having that it might cut into their contributions to an over-inflated player economy.
Do you deny that what you wrote was intended to cause dancers to want to withdraw from what the devs have offered us?
Esh, what about the issue of the challenge being taken away from crafters (well what little challenge there is left).
Its not about makign lots of money for a lot of us - its striving to be better, to improve etc. I take pride in comparing my weapons to other smiths out there and where I see mine are lacking I focus on trying to improve them.
But if suddenly pretty much every one of my resources allows me to experiment to 100%, where is the challenge when I know I will never be able to improve my weapons? I will experiment the max damage to 100% every time and put the rest into SAC because thats what people want as will most other smiths on my server and pretty much every other server. Resulting in "Brand X" weapons on every vendor.
I understand the arguement you are making and know you are trying to be objective. And I know how frustrating it must be for Entertainers in general to have been shunted to one side. But this is really going to ruin crafting for a lot of people.
Not because they can't make millions.
Not because they are scared of new players making the same weapons as them.
Not because they are annoyed that all their hard work and dedication in buying and searching for the best resources has been ruined.
But because there will no longer be a challenge in crafting for them. (Don't get me wrong, all the above points are annoying and frustrating and I think especially the last 2 points are valid) - But the main reason will be the lack of challenge and fun.
Crafting should be about dedication and commitment - this will dumb it down, make it simpler and the only competition will be price and as has already been said - the winners will be the people with the largest cheque books not the new players.
Message Edited by Ecnirp on 08-25-2005 01:48 PM
There is no challenge in crafting as it is , If you have the uber resource that spawned 18 months ago or the cash to buy 20 resource deeds you will be making the best possible goods. What this buff does is evens it out a bit for the younger crafters and allows them to get into the business. It will still be an uphill struggle for them as they have been locked out of content for this game for some time.
On my server there was an AS who openly admitted capping 10 accounts for cash yes thats 100,000,000,000 credits , did he feel there was a challenge left I dont believe so there was no competition and he has now left the game which has revitalised the AS business on my server. I dont thinkestablished players are being punished with these buffs they still have the cash and resources to give an advantage to their business.
From what you are saying perhaps we should have a resource decay built into the system this would stop anyone capping anything again unless it was a brand new spawn.
I for one dont believe these buffs will hurt anyone and in my opinion will enhance my gameplay and younger crafters gameplay which has been lacking for such a long time.
I have no problem with Alts logging on to buff guild crafters at all why because with this preposed system they will need to be ATK and not sitting 24/7 in a cantina spamming garbage all day.
Alphessa
Alphessa wrote:
I have no problem with Alts logging on to buff guild crafters at all why because with this preposed system they will need to be ATK and not sitting 24/7 in a cantina spamming garbage all day.
Yay! Lets risk upsetting the ecconomy now and pick up the pieces later.
Esharra wrote:
As a crafter and a dancer, I would like to see them go in and then adjusted depending upon how they actually effect play on Live rather than based upon player speculation.
ItemCreator wrote:
As a crafter and a dancer I would like to see the resource part of the buffs removed, or at the very least toned down.
Entertainers are not alchemists, we should not be able to effect the stats on a resource, it just doesn't make sense! (Its also very un-starwarsy).
Maybe you haven't noticed but the economy is a wreck already. The big name crafters with best of server resource stockpiles and 12 point experimentation are charging what they have determined"the economy will bear" rather than establishing a cpu based pricing schema for so long that runaway inflation is rampant on every server. New players in the game can't get a foothold? Crafters who have been playing for a year are still unable to establish a reliable customer base.
ItemCreator wrote:
Yay! Lets risk upsetting the ecconomy now and pick up the pieces later.
Esharra wrote:
As a crafter and a dancer, I would like to see them go in and then adjusted depending upon how they actually effect play on Live rather than based upon player speculation.
ItemCreator wrote:
As a crafter and a dancer I would like to see the resource part of the buffs removed, or at the very least toned down.
Entertainers are not alchemists, we should not be able to effect the stats on a resource, it just doesn't make sense! (Its also very un-starwarsy).
I myself aren't a crafter anymore, but my reasons for quiting were not that I didn't make money anymore or anything. I have made more money than I can possibly spend (well ok, I could), I quit because it was not fun anymore.
CU simplified the chef-crafting too much already, and I fear this new buff will make things even worse.
Saying "you just don't want us to have anything" to them, is not right.
Yes the buff will be great for the entertainers, but it will not be great for the crafting system. You want to tell me that all those people who say that are in the top 3 of their prof and are afraid of competition?
I doubt it, there have been many arguments why 10% is simply too much. There have been some proposals to replace the buff with something else, or reduce it to 2 or 3%.
It all gets met with "you're afraid of competition".
Entertainers who cling to the "THe devs offer this to us, you greedy crafters have to live with it!", how are they better than "The devs allow us to AFK buffbot, you entertainers have to live with it!" ?
Both are things that are good for one side, but harmfull to the other. Depending on which side of the fence you are the picture looks different.
And again: Do we really want to be back in the time when our buffs were considered "required"? With all the negativity about it. With all the hate we get for not being there when someone needs us. With the feelings against our "impudence" that we might even expect a small tip of 1 or 2k for our service? That people don't consider it a service even but our duty to just stop whatever the hell we were just doing and give them their f****** buff?
I don't.
Esharra wrote:
As a crafter and a dancer, I would like to see them go in and then adjusted depending upon how they actually effect play on Live rather than based upon player speculation.
ItemCreator wrote:
As a crafter and a dancer I would like to see the resource part of the buffs removed, or at the very least toned down.
Entertainers are not alchemists, we should not be able to effect the stats on a resource, it just doesn't make sense! (Its also very un-starwarsy).
And frankly you think thats better? How?
Lets make an example:
Someone is a crafter NOW. Changes go life and that one fills his entire datapad and 5 droids with schematic storage modules with schematics made with the 10% buff.
Then the Devs say 2 or 3 days later "oh, yeah, guess the crafters where right, the buff is too much, now that its on live we see it, lets change it to something less, 2% or so". Or they take it completely away again, and replace it with lets say the "10% complexity buff" that was mentioned here.
That crafter still has 10% better stuff now than EVERYONE who comes after him, and they have NO chance to ever catch up to him. Ever, unless the server happens to spawn a few stat-capped resources (which I'm not sure has ever happened)
So how is this any different than what we have now with people with 2 year old resources? You say its unfair they were simply around when the stuff spawned and the newer crafters weren't. Yes thats unfair.
But tell me how its not unfair if someone takes advantage of those buffs and newer crafters can't anymore?
Wouldn't it be easier and fairer if the devs change the resource algorithm to increase the spawnrate of good and "uber" resources? That way new crafters can get into the business too.
Like "good" resources spawn every few weeks, and uber ones (whatever qualifies as "uber" perhaps 3 or 4 stats 950+ or so, doesn't really matter) every 2 months. I mean here good and uber stuff in every category, not just "This months we have uber tatooine carbonite steel, and in two month it will be yavin berries".
So perhaps for a week or two you'll have crap resources, then a good resource spawn comes and you can start making stuff that will sell (not for the same prices but it WILL sell if priced accordingly). And 2 months later you have resources to match those "old uber ones", of which everyone seems to think it comes from the devil itself.
Sure old crafters will get even more good and uber resources then... but hey, so does everyone else, and thats apperently what everyone wants?
I could live with that, and I'm sure most crafters could as well, but this 10% thing is just not right.
Coreena wrote:
Eshara, you saying crafters don't want this buff just to harm the entertainers is unfair.
*snip*
And again: Do we really want to be back in the time when our buffs were considered "required"? With all the negativity about it. With all the hate we get for not being there when someone needs us. With the feelings against our "impudence" that we might even expect a small tip of 1 or 2k for our service? That people don't consider it a service even but our duty to just stop whatever the hell we were just doing and give them their f****** buff?
I don't.
She didn't say that, ever. Please don't twist words. We have enough of that going on by non-Dancers.
Again: We will not see the same backlash because:
A. The actual crafting part of Crafter game play is very small time investment wise. With combat buffs, we were affecting their whole gameplay. With these crafter buffs, we will be taking a very tiny amount of time out of their overall crafting gameplay even if they decide to use us every single time they hand craft or make a factory schematic.
B. There is no urgency in crafting. It's not like PvP where you are working to other players' schedules. In crafting, you do the actual crafting part when you decide and when all the conditions are right. There is nothing like the short window of opportunity like there is with a raid.
C. Crafters have always needed other profs to prep - some decide to work with others in aplay capacity, some decide to use alts. This just includes Ents in that circle - not a big deal when that is already the norm.
... and there will not be the out cry from Ents because:
D. These can't be botted AFK.