Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Nacoa wrote:
Just wondering: Why find a middle ground?
First because it hasn't been decided that buffbots are in violation of the EULA and since it isn't, we are going have to live with. By at least trying to find a middle ground we are at least trying to solve this problem asadults.
Should we find a middle ground between the credit dupers and the non-dupers? I'm not saying buffbots are as bad, but why should there be a middle ground between "players" that damage the game and ones that don't? Why should SOE should say "Ok, you can damage the game some"?
Credit duping is violation of EULA.
The pro-buffbot argument seems to always be about availability. I'm well aware of this, because I used to run a buffbot, due to the same availability problems. Then the entertainers on all of the servers stepped up to try and address that problem by creating an entertainer channel on each server so that people looking for a buff can find it.
Nice idea about an entertainer channel. We've have had one on Sunrunner for about 5, maybe 6 weeks. It has failed. When I ask patrons, the common response "I don't have time to look." If that is the mentality of the patrons, then we as live entertainers are in trouble.
Walking into the cantina looking for a buff is just like walking into the med center for a doc buff. You're not going to find a live entertainer to give you one, even though it's the logical place to get one. But if you use the entertainer channel, you'll find one, and you'll likely convince them to come to wherever you're hunting, so you don't lose a chunk of your 2-hour buff traveling to your hunting grounds. Heck, bring a scout along and you can get buffed in your hunting grounds.
So, I'd say the availability issue is really a combination of 3 things: Bugs in key code like /register, and players not using the tools the entertainers provide to find a buff, and poor dev decisions in the past like the holo-craze that drove entertainers out of the profession.
The "they're needed for PvP" argument is really a side-argument on the availability problem. Use the tools provided, and you'll find your buffs.
The only other argument I'm hearing is "I pay my money, so I get to play however I want!!". To which I say, "no, you don't". You can't credit dupe. You can't use a cheat code to give you god mode. You can't instantly master any profession. You can't use more than 250 skill points. You can't give yourself a billion credits and a 10,000 damage weapon. And so on.
I will agree with you if you can show me in the EULA that buffbots are in violation. KS happens, people complain but it continues because, guess what, it is not in violation of the EULA.
There are all sorts of restrictions in the game already, which will keep you from playing "the way you want" even though you pay SOE $15/mo. But please use this argument to continue advancing your cause, since it'll fail miserably. See, you're forgetting that the entertainers pay their $15/mo too, and deserve a playable game for it.
(And before someone says "I pay $30/mo for my buffbot and main", I'd like to remind them there are plenty of other people who pay for more characters than that, including myself. So please, make it be that the most $$/mo gets the most say on how the game will be played.)
I'd really like to hear another pro-buffbot argument. I mean, the decision on eliminating buffbots looks absolutely trivial to me, since the only valid pro-buffbot argument I've heard is worries about availability. I think that'll be fixed by supply and demand. For example, there's enough demand for doc buffs to create a lot of Doctors. There'll be enough demand for entertainer buffs to create a lot of entertainers. If it turns out I'm wrong, then the devs should try to solve the problem. But I think we should let market forces take a crack at the problem first, before installing an artificial means to address it.
Message Edited by Nacoa on 09-11-2004 10:15 PM
Nacoa, I personally don't care for buffbots and afk entertainers, but they do pay to play this game within the rules established in the EULA. Just because they don't play to my standards doesn't mean that they are wrong, thus not my standards. I don't KS, but there are a good amount of people that do because they want the loot or the experience. Again, KSing is not in violation of the EULA.
If you had read my entire post and digested it without using any biased views, you would have seen I had addressed the issue of afk performers and buffbots in npc cities, and basically that is what almost all the live entertainers are complaining about. If a player cities wants to have to afk entertainers and buffbots, shouldn't they be allowed? After all they paid to play the game and worked to establishing their city. They should have that right.
We don't live in a perfect world which means games aren't perfect.
Easy answer, they are a necessity because people rather do solo groups instead of grouping together to kill something. I remember in the days before buffs in a group of 20 and hitting the tusken caves, now with buffs, you can solo them. That is the necessity of buffs. Why do you think there was so much complaining about the corvette missions? Because it wasn't soloable.
Oqua wrote:
Until the combat rebalance hits mind buffs are a nessity
You, and any other buff bot proponent, have yet to address my question:
What on earth did ya'll do before buffs?
Since they are such a "necessity"?
Just sit in the corner, twiddling your thumbs, till someone made it "easier" for you to compete in the GCW?
Message Edited by Taewyn on 09-12-2004 12:25 PM
Oqua wrote:
Wrong...reason I say this is because I solo everything...and I mean EVERYTHING with my little fighter lady.
She has never gotten a mind buff to this day, and I have been fighting her since Nov 1, of 2003.
Again..not a necessity.
If I didn't deal with it on a day to day basis myself (of not having mind buffs and hunting) then I wouldn't be so adament about this not being a good sound argument.
Bottom line is this.
People have gotten used to having them when they want, whenever they want.
As I have said before..this seems to be the core of the argument.
Give me one I can't logically negate, because the ones I have seen just aren't cutting it.
I said buffs, I didn't say mind buffs. I agree, people (and I didn't say all people here) have gotten use to all forms of buffs that they have forgotten how to use skills effectively without buffs. With the new force grind, people are trying to gather as much XP as possible and buffs allow you to gather more XP quicker. I completed the first set of patrols at Aurilia with only brandy and a psg. I died once and had another patrol failed. Ittook me at least 50% longer to do this than those who did it with buffs. I did the second set of patrols with buffs and armor and I was a bit slower that those with buffs (probably have to with only being a 3203 riflewoman), but much faster than I did the first set of patrols without a death or failed patrol. So buffs aren't a necessity but it makes killing easier and with less risk.
Maybe to solve this problem, we eliminate all forms of buffs. Of course I can hear the chorus of cries of people state that they are being forced to group and cries fromchefs, doctors and entertainers. Damned either way. Until an agreement can be achieved to how to solve this issue (buffboting, not buffs) that is beneficial for all, this is a dead horse being beaten into hamburger.
Isendel wrote:
No Drygo, you have not tried to reason with me. You have taken a hard stance on this issue, and have shown that you are willing to make no compramise on this issue. You seem from your posts that you do not pvp, and dont care about that play style, and most of you wont concede that the loss of buff bots could adversely effect other players. I have answered all of your questions, except that concerning the "live" game.
Taewyn wrote:
In the end, pure and simple the player base, especially combat types, are spoiled....And it is this "I deserve to be in god mode 24/7 with no preperation or time spent" attitude that is destroying the game.
MMO's at their core are games about social interaction....If you do not wish for that, or wish to be able to interact with scripted NPC's to do whatever youwantin the gamethen you should *really* play a single player game. Single player games are far superior in graphics, story line and world interaction.....The *only* thing an MMO has over them is social interaction with other people, so why do you rally so hard to abolish any semblance of that?
Honestly, people who play MMO's should get used to having to "seek" out other classes for their skills...Its part of the game, and part of the reason why those classes exist....Skill sets do not exist to be turned into glorified NPC mules.
Message Edited by Taewyn on 09-12-2004 12:25 PM
Hvzeda wrote:
Easy answer, they are a necessity because people rather do solo groups instead of grouping together to kill something. I remember in the days before buffs in a group of 20 and hitting the tusken caves, now with buffs, you can solo them. That is the necessity of buffs. Why do you think there was so much complaining about the corvette missions? Because it wasn't soloable.
Oqua wrote:
Until the combat rebalance hits mind buffs are a nessity
You, and any other buff bot proponent, have yet to address my question:
What on earth did ya'll do before buffs?
Since they are such a "necessity"?
Just sit in the corner, twiddling your thumbs, till someone made it "easier" for you to compete in the GCW?
That doesn't make them a necessity. If it did, then the devs would give in to the people whining about the Corvette and the Death Watch Bunker. This game wasn't meant to be, nor should it be, completely soloable. If that is a valid argument then I don't understand why they don't make me instantly a Jedi Knight, raise my HAM by about 5000 points on each stat, and make my attacks quicker and more potent so that I can go solo the Death Watch Bunker or one of those Dark Jedi Knight NPC's you find running around Dantooine. I mean, it's a necessity to be able to solo them, right?
Drygo wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
Easy answer, they are a necessity because people rather do solo groups instead of grouping together to kill something. I remember in the days before buffs in a group of 20 and hitting the tusken caves, now with buffs, you can solo them. That is the necessity of buffs. Why do you think there was so much complaining about the corvette missions? Because it wasn't soloable.
Oqua wrote:
Until the combat rebalance hits mind buffs are a nessity
You, and any other buff bot proponent, have yet to address my question:
What on earth did ya'll do before buffs?
Since they are such a "necessity"?
Just sit in the corner, twiddling your thumbs, till someone made it "easier" for you to compete in the GCW?
That doesn't make them a necessity. If it did, then the devs would give in to the people whining about the Corvette and the Death Watch Bunker. This game wasn't meant to be, nor should it be, completely soloable. If that is a valid argument then I don't understand why they don't make me instantly a Jedi Knight, raise my HAM by about 5000 points on each stat, and make my attacks quicker and more potent so that I can go solo the Death Watch Bunker or one of those Dark Jedi Knight NPC's you find running around Dantooine. I mean, it's a necessity to be able to solo them, right?
I never said it WAS a necessity. I answered the question of why it it could be a necessity from the perspective from the people that are stating it is a necessity. I said the reason people state it is a necessity (I never said it for me) is because they rather solo than group.