Dancer Archive
Thread: New Inspirations on TC!
There are a lot of comments from skimming those threads that people are clearly not understanding what is actually happening.
The ONLY resources that will have a negative* impact are those resources where ALL the stats relevant for crafting are above 910 AND there is only 1 line of experimentation.
EVERYTHING else gets BETTER as a result of this patch, that means if you have resource with all stats over 910 but have two lines of experimentation you will be making better stuff, if you have one line of experimentation but need three stats over 910 and only two are then your resource will be better.
I've seen WS's complain but unless I'm mistaken this means they will reach the damage and speed caps easier and can make lower SAC weapons - that's better.
Senom..you and Leno are Da Bomb baby! Big thanks to you both for bringing in the numbers!
We entertainers may not often have a lot to test but when we do, you guys are always right on it. We definitely have the best testers on TC. I'm a very lucky corr!
you should check out those links too. people arent too concerned over the nerfing there awesome resources are getting (although yes that stinks). we will still have plenty to sell and make as we replace every crafted item in the game with perfect items. the concern is there is no longer the variability. its almost like every profession will have thedepth of tailor crafting with regards to experimentation. sure we have to click once or twice for the mandatory bar fill but all the items come out the same no matter who is making it.
Red-Dwarf wrote:
The ONLY resources that will have a negative* impact are those resources where ALL the stats relevant for crafting are above 910 AND there is only 1 line of experimentation.
this is very common. these will all be 100 percent experimented perfect items post patch and pre patch items will be worthless.
EVERYTHING else gets BETTER as a result of this patch, that means if you have resource with all stats over 910 but have two lines of experimentation you will be making better stuff, if you have one line of experimentation but need three stats over 910 and only two are then your resource will be better.
we all know everything gets better. thats not the problem. the problem is everything gets perfect, identical, cloned. no variation. there becomes one way to make everything and everyone can make it at the same values. 100 percent. if you have two lines of anything theres almost always a preference to make one line better first. power on the stims then charges for example.
I've seen WS's complain but unless I'm mistaken this means they will reach the damage and speed caps easier and can make lower SAC weapons - that's better.
many smiths already hit the caps fairly easily. yes its better. every good will be better, in fact every good will be identical and perfect. everything you own now will be junk compared to it too. yes thats more sales more money etc but the system itself is getting boring, thoughtless, and totally over simplified. there is no more depth.
*the negative is only relative - the same resource will make better stuff, but now stuff with 910 on all relevant stats and only one experimentation line will now be the same, but there aren't many circumstances where that happens.
i totally disagree. there are tons of items with only one experimentation bar, and there are many more that have only one bar thats of any consequence. furthermore as i said above, if there are multiple stats to experiment on there is always one that is preferential to fill first and that will always hit 100 percent now.
I've been reading those threads. It's the same thing over and over. Senom is right, to say he isn't you have to pretend like everyone is getting 910 stat resources across the board - as if that's where all resources start. It's just not true. *shrug*
Anyway, I'm not mad at you and if you want me to be lynched... um, oh well. Lol, I lived through the hologrind and the bot wars in this forum, a good old fashioned Dancer lynching might be fun. 
Flames have never shut me up if I know I'm speaking the truth and know what I'm talking about.
Just be honest, the reason for not liking caps is the same as the reason for not liking this - you don't want it to be easier to reach that top game that sets the market value for both resources and products because then prices will be lowered.
It's very easy to use "variability" as an excuse because it sounds like a noble cause, but it's not true. It all boils down to being able to make more money from being at the absolute top and keeping others out so they can't lower your prices.
If it was making everything exactly the same, you wouldn't have to keep acting like 910 is where resource stats start. If the buff gets changed, fine. You can't keep slowing the Devs' goal down here though. Eventually, they are going to get more people into that top crafter set. In time they will have the costs lowered. There's no reason why they shouldn't, it's better for the game over all.
You might be able to set this one back, but these end results are going to be implemented no matter what. I'm not being mean, it's just how it is. Maybe resource decay is going to be the final fix? Maybe some other thing? I don't know, but I bet it's all wrapped up by 2006.
If you stick with the Ents, you'll have a support class under you that will help you ask for crafter content when that happens. If you push us away, you'll just be on your own when it does. I'd think you'd want our added numbers, but if not... *shrug* it's your call.
Panthu wrote:
I've been reading those threads. It's the same thing over and over. Senom is right, to say he isn't you have to pretend like everyone is getting 910 stat resources across the board - as if that's where all resources start. It's just not true. *shrug*
what is senom right about? that people wont hit 100 percent experimentation constantly now and all goods will not be the same? ridiculous. the fact remains that already high end guns are all the same. capped on everything. we had to work to get this, but it is still not a good thing for crafting. this makes it easier. and dumbed down. and boring. and pointless. everything will be 100 percent capped. i think it is true. most crafters do too. this keeps getting ignored in these discussions. its wow crafting. get A and B, that creates C. end of story. thats lame. its stripping swg of one of its most unique traits.
Anyway, I'm not mad at you and if you want me to be lynched... um, oh well. Lol, I lived through the hologrind and the bot wars in this forum, a good old fashioned Dancer lynching might be fun.
it was a joke.
Just be honest, the reason for not liking caps is the same as the reason for not liking this - you don't want it to be easier to reach that top game that sets the market value for both resources and products because then prices will be lowered.
this is insulting to me. ive clearly laid out why i dont like this. so have others. to just keep saying admit it you are selfish!! is just wrong. please stop. personally ive become one of my servers top crafters through hard work. ive worked hard to actually keep prices lower and maintain our economy at a reasonable level. ive succeeded. ive also setup new people to the profession with all sorts of best spawns just to help out. on jedi revamp i handed out best spawn lightsaber resources to every jedi on our server. i dont take advantage of my position, i help others attain it. ill make a ton of money when this goes live cranking out replacements with perfect cookiee cutter items and so will every other crafter. then everything will be a commodity. there will be no special crafted items. thats bad for the game and the economy and the players.
It's very easy to use "variability" as an excuse because it sounds like a noble cause, but it's not true. It all boils down to being able to make more money from being at the absolute top and keeping others out so they can't lower your prices.
see above. more generalizing.its flat out true. i played wow and maxed a weaponsmith and it was the dumbest poorest implementation of a crafting system i had ever seen after swg. but... its what we are getting now. how cant you see this. it is true whether noble or not regardless of motivations. i stopped needing money a long long time ago. i actually enjoy the crafting system for its unique challenges and complexity. thats being totally stripped. stop dismissing this and telling me what my motivations are.
If it was making everything exactly the same, you wouldn't have to keep acting like 910 is where resource stats start. If the buff gets changed, fine. You can't keep slowing the Devs' goal down here though. Eventually, they are going to get more people into that top crafter set. In time they will have the costs lowered. There's no reason why they shouldn't, it's better for the game over all.
You might be able to set this one back, but these end results are going to be implemented no matter what. I'm not being mean, it's just how it is. Maybe resource decay is going to be the final fix? Maybe some other thing? I don't know, but I bet it's all wrapped up by 2006.
controlling inflation isa good thing. making every crafted item a cloned commodity is a pretty poor way of doing it.
If you stick with the Ents, you'll have a support class under you that will help you ask for crafter content when that happens. If you push us away, you'll just be on your own when it does. I'd think you'd want our added numbers, but if not... *shrug* it's your call.
dont act like im dumping on the profession. i dont care if this resource buff came from a doc or a wierd quest or anywhere. the buff is the issue not the source. this isnt pushing a profession away this is explaining a grassroots change to the very core of the economic rules. resources stats and how they affect crafting. dont try to make it into some overly dramatic issue, its a discussion on game mechanics. however i dont see much coming back on that topic, just some chatter about hidden agendas and conspiracy theories.
Goldy_Lhim wrote:
well I stopped reading after a while cuz it just looked like bickering. But I will say that these new buffs sound pretty neat. I'm looking forward to trying them out
im trying to explain the actual impacts but they keep getting dismissed as a coverup for some hidden 'omg i want to be bestest and nobody else can' conspiracy theory
noSup4u wrote:
Goldy_Lhim wrote:
well I stopped reading after a while cuz it just looked like bickering. But I will say that these new buffs sound pretty neat. I'm looking forward to trying them out
im trying to explain the actual impacts but they keep getting dismissed as a coverup for some hidden 'omg i want to be bestest and nobody else can' conspiracy theory
noSup4u wrote:
everything will be 100 percent capped.
I apologize to anyone who read this before I edited it
Ka'th Sandrunner
Master Dancer
Scylla
Message Edited by Trellgar on 08-24-2005 10:32 AM
noSup4u wrote:heres the main discussion on tarq
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Tarquinas&message.id=506574
heres a couple weaponsmith threadshttp://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=94141http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=94212you should really read them before telling everyone crafting is fine and this isnt dumbing down anything.i cant believe a lynch mob didnt come for ya on a few of the posts in this thread so far
I just want to know how many of hte people in those threads (and this one for that matter) who are complaining have actually gone to Test Center and used both high and low end resources and tested the impact of this change on the finish product instead of just freaking out and going "OMG THE WORLD IS GOING TO END AND EVERY ITEM WILL BE IDENTICAL!!!" because of the way they THINK it is going to work instead of the way it is really working?
Red-Dwarf wrote:
noSup4u wrote:
everything will be 100 percent capped.
You sure?:
SW's have at least Mass and an effectiveness stat on everything (and most a LOT more to experiment on)
WS's have Damage, Speed, SAC on everything, and elemental damage on some.
BE's I lose count on how many things they experiment on (but they do have the most complicated crafting around)
AS's are the simplest and I accept will be most likely to reach caps, but as key resources are organic and therefore limited I still see a challenge present.
Architects have BER and storage, up til now you always had BER 10 and storage depended on if 12pt or not), now you could choose BER 10 and high storage or BER 11 and lower storage (as takes a point or two more to reach 100%)
Now sure we can cap one line easily, and get close on a second, but three capped lines? I'd like to see a screenshot of that.
Of course there are also the secondary lines which have been less important because people simply can't experiment on them but now could have spare points to spend on them (a nice new challenge for you).
The problem is that there wont be room for improvement.
Summerflame wrote:
This is not about credits in the end its not even about ahving an edge (though I also do beleive that it is unfair to 2 year vets), this is about being able to better yourself all the time.
Like I said in Lilo's thread, I think this is a worthy goal. I just can't understand how you guys aren't seeing the long line here.
You keep mentioning Crafter Day, has it not dawned on any of you that you stopped nothing? You can't stop design goals. If it's something the Devs want to happen, it will. Shuttle port timers were a great example of this I think. Yes, people freaked out in the forums and stopped the initial attempt to change them - did it end up happening anyway? Uh, yeah.
Dancers have been through this recently - we lost, just flat out lost when we tried to stop changes they were set on for us - they are trying to meet our play goals other ways now though. I'm guessing a fame system and maybe some other enhancements are going to be coming down the line for us if we really use our new content.
Devs work better and harder for open-minded players - they tend to just "handle" the others. You get way more goodies if you're in the first group. I know you guys don't know me from Jack, but I swear I have your fun in mind too when I say this.