Dancer Archive
Thread: Yay, and thanks to all you AFK Macro-ers
nvoigt wrote:
I think banning it will change a lot... because I still believe 95% are doing this simply because they can and not because they are cheaters at heart. If I'm wrong, this game is doomed. Who wants to play with notorious cheaters anyway ?
Ah yes, now we come to it. This description is exactly me. I don't want to cheat, and I'm going to cheer at the hanging of cheaters as much as you, nvoigt. This is where our views part ways: you think AFKing is cheating, and I don't. But your definition of cheating is very theoretical; mine is more functional. For you, it violates the spirit of onling gaming, and therefore it is cheating. For me, I've not been told by a Dev that it's a cheat or an exploit, and therefore it is not cheating. I live in a functional world, you live in a theoretical one.
Counterstrike cheats? Hehe. I played CS till I was blue in the face sometimes, and after one or two deaths at the hands of an aimboter, I knew them for what they were. But it's an inescapable reality. They are there. I have two choices, I can whine and take my ball home, or I can deal with it. Rather than cry, I enjoyed the challenge of beating them with my superior tactics. Almost without fail, an aimbotter utterly lacks tactical skill. I love for my intellect and savvy to be so superior that I am victorious dispite the aimbots. And I love the cheers I get from the dead people watching me do it.
Not to deviate from SWG too far by talking about CS, I think it is silly to draw conclusions about how this game ought to be from the example set by other games. Apples and tomatos may both be fruits, but if you try to grow apples the same way you grow tomatos, you may not have a lot of success at the All-MMORPGS-Should-Be-The-Same Farms. Other games crack down on AFK play. This one has also (surveying). They haven't addressed this yet. That says something. I don't know *what* it says, neither do you (unless you are Q or JustG in disguise here). But *what* it says is meaningless. It's permitted, and I shall not find fault those who do it.
If we start faulting people for doing things that are permissible, where do we stop? AFK dancing is allowed, but it's bad to do so. Okay, by that logic, then my opinion that my neighbor can sell his goods on his own merchant for less than I sell mine is cheating, and he should be banned. That's an exaggeration of course, but my point stands. If we leave it to you, nvoigt, to decide what things the Devs let us do that we should not do,how far does that slippery slope go down?
For my part, its a feature that comes with the game, no Dev has said it's an unintendedexploit, and therefore those who do it are ok by me. The rest of you are crying over spilled milk.
....is THAT what I need to do to get 5000credit tips?
But your definition of cheating is very theoretical; mine is more functional. For you, it violates the spirit of onling gaming, and therefore it is cheating. For me, I've not been told by a Dev that it's a cheat or an exploit, and therefore it is not cheating. I live in a functional world, you live in a theoretical one.
That's absolutly right. I'm not saying unattended gameplay by means of in game macros is a bannable offense right now. SOE clearly stated it's not. Practically, it's ok to do whatever you like unattended, as long as it's an in game macro. In theory, I would like to see this go because of the reasons detailed above.
The rule is set. People are playing by it. So I will do what is my best bet: Complain about it until it changes. And it will change. But I'd rather see it change sooner then later, so I complain.
However, I do believe the majority of players know that unattended gameplay by whatever means is always wrong for any online game. They may do it because they can right now with the rules in existance, but if someone claims these rules are good, I will argue with him until he feels the same way as I do, or I realize he is a cheater at heart and wants to cheat and exploit no matter what the rules are.
"I will argue with him until he feels the same way as I do, or I realize he is a cheater at heart and wants to cheat and exploit no matter what the rules are."
-LMAO. Logic like that is too funny.
I started out as an aspiring dancer because I wanted to dress in skimpy clothes and shake my a$$ in cantinas. When my husband and I found a really nice PA, I decided that "combat dancer" was more for me. XP became my motivation, and not money or socialisation, although the latter is fun while at the keyboard. The PA supplemented my lack of income so they could have a master dancer to place the cantina.
The Flurry Coronet cantina began at some point to not allow afkers in the "desireable" group. They were booted at "roll call" unless they informed the leader of a "beer run" or "pizza guy" or some such RL activity. This is completely understandable and should be the way to handle chronic AFKers. Eventually there were "AFK" groups and online groups. It seemed to work.
I now shake my a$$ for my guildmates in our player-run city. I am also working up the TKA tree, so even if I engage the Pfluffy-bot for mind buffs and heals, most players know me from other game playing. It works for our PA, and no one is unhappy about it. In fact, I came back from hunting gurks on Lok for several memebers that wanted heals and buffs tonight before combat. Pfluffy is performing that task while I research a little more on this forum about the dancer profession and buffs, as this is my primary profession. I don't know, isn't that the way the game should work? Players doing what they can for their mates?
I have been consistently impressed with how the devs have forced chars to work together and form PAs and cities, but it isn't perfect. There are bugs in this game, but the content and player community is well above a UO-type game. My husband is a BH, talk about a buggy profession. He still loves the game and plays, confident that BH will be fixed.
>I don't know, isn't that the way the game should work? Players doing what they can for their mates?
Indeed, that's the way it should work. And most of those complaining have stated time and again that whatever you do in your house or cantina or PA hall is completely up to you and we won't attempt to tell you what is right or wrong. However, in the public gathering places, players should be aware that climbing the xp ladder the fastest way possible inside the game rules by macrotainingis hurting those that want to have fun there and thereby the game system, because those that have fun there will stay while the grinders will move on. Those that look for a buff nowadays are somewhat lost, because the grinders stayed and those looking for fun moved on because it is no longer fun with 30 grinders and 5 real entertainers.
For the sake of not taking up too much space, I only have the part of this post that is relevant to what I have to say....
scttkrkwd wrote:
iblame the dev's for asking people to master a profession they have no interest in playing. that only encourages and ultimatley rewards grinding AFK'ers.
I find this argument to be truly one of the worst reasons in favor of AFK-botting. Why would I claim something as propestorous as this? Simply put, it is every single person's choice to click on that holocron and do as it tells you. It is your choice to change your character from how you had envisioned him or her to try and obtain your FSCS. Your single-sighted vision of obtaining a Jedi for yourself is what is causing you to go miserably into a profession that other people actually enjoy.
I have yet to hear of one person posting that a Developer came into the game and forced them to follow the Holocron trail. I have not heard the despairing wails of someone saying that they logged on to find their Master Bounty Hunter now wearing a cotton pink tactical suit in the Coronet Cantina with an AFK-macro ready to go that proclaims during their AFK-dance that " I'm a Holo Whore!! Please watch me wiggle my butt so I can get my FSCS!" No developer is telling you that you have to change your character from how you wanted him to be. If you want to be the elite Bounty Hunter, you can have the elite Bounty Hunter. However, if you want to have what is supposed to be the hardest to get profession in the game, which is also supposed to be rather rare, you are going to have to make sacrifices. Now where would I have heard something about Jedi and sacrifices before....
After reading many many post on this subject I am still at a loss.
If people were to have to be at there toon while it danced. You would not have any less number of people in the cantina. Maybe at night but the overall numbers would increase during peak playing times.
So in stating it ruins gameplay for US live players - I can agree with that, but its not a game breaker. If you are a Master get your own cantina and ban afk people - you got the power.
Cheating - I find it hard to believe that if you use a ingame tool its cheating. So if its not cheating whats the big deal. If it is cheating the devs got some problems:
1. why is the code still in game?
2. Why does SOE not just start banning anyone who does not respond to a /tell withen 30 secs?
On number two - I have seen people go afk waiting for a shuttle, While being healed, while fighing weak mobs, sampling etc...so going afk and or afk and gettting skill is not banned.
I know that the dev did add events to the Survey/sample to stop people from harvesting afk
So why dont they add dancing events that will cause you to stop dancing if you dont type in yes every 5 minutes???????????????????????????
In short I believe they got bigger fish to fry and the voice of the small number of full time dancers will not be heard.
BTW I am a holo dancer and I use a macro - BUT I am at my Keyboard most of the time and or in guild chat...now I do leave the room to eat take a shower etc...and I believe that is why the macros are in the game.
Now leave the horse alone it dead
Chessack wrote:
Yes the player has the choice, but you have to realize that there is the "coolness factor" of the Jedi.
IMO the big mistake happened long ago, in the choice to both have this timeline AND allow Jedi. They should not have done both. If they wanted to allow multiple player Jedi, which do not fit in this time period, they should've set it back in the Sith Wars days, or forward in the "Luke as Jedi Master" days. Then they could've let anyone who wanted become a Jedi and you wouldn't have any of this silly stuff. OR, they should've said, "Sorry, no Jedi in this time period" and left it at that. The decision to allow Jedi in a time period when the minimum number of them are running around over a 25,000 year epoch, was really stupid and whoever decided on it should be fired.
C
Oh, I agree that the coolness factor of the Jedi is the reason most people are following the Holocron trail. I'll even admit that I'm intrigued by it. However, I like character the way she is. I'm leaving her be. I happen to have extra money, and I am using an additional account to be my Holo trail follower. This character has no ambition other than to follow the will of the Holocrons. I understand that not everyone can do this, that not everyone has extra free cash. Perhaps this is something that the developers should look at and see as a reason to allow perhaps a secondary character per server. I'd wager money that people would leave their primary characters alone while they followed the Holo-trail with a character that was solely made for that.
The system is flawed, and yes, that is why there is more AFK-macroers in cantinas. I just personally am sick of hearing that as a reason. Cool factor or not, they are the ones actively making that choice. I know a few people who play this game in real lifewho start whining to me about how they don't want to be Master Dancer or some other silly profession in their eyes.. and that they hope they don't get a holo that tells them that. I retort to them that it is always their choice to follow the path. They don't have to do it. I might also use a few other choice words... but they're RL friends... so I can get away with it!
As for your other point that you left in, I do agree that their system would be better left if they had put the timeline at either of the periods you have mentioned. However, I think SOE and Lucas Arts wanted to keep the storyline for those two periods open so that they can crank out more Knights of the Old Republic games (with as successful as that was.. they're working on another) and more Jedi Knight games. They don't want to step on their own toes.
I think the Force Sensitive Character Slot should have been something latent in your account until much later down the road. Sony could have easily told people that due to the current story, Jedi are not around. Then as expansions (not updates) come out, the major storyline progresses. We've not had the Space Expansion yet, so maybe this part will happen. Eventually, we get to the second or third expansion, and it's now after Return of the Jedi. People are now able to access theirFSCS upon completing some unknown requirements. The Holocron idea may be able to work at this point, who knows. At this point, the Devs may have been able to put in more stuff that would also be reasonable requirements for having the FSCS. Some people would be lucky and find out they have pretty much everything done. Others would have a long road ahead of them, but people would be able to do that.
We all know this isn't the way things are going to go... we've already got Jedi. Oh well, I think I got off track for a moment. Ah well, I agree with you that most people want to be the cool Jedi. A lot of people want to be the walking PvP gods that Jedi should be. These reasons are causing hordes to flock to gather their holocrons so that they can be at the whim of a tiny little box. I'm just tired of hearing people blame the Devs for sending people towards professions they don't want. They're actively making the choice.. I have no pity for them.
Greatsails:
To respond to your original point (which seems to have gotten buried). I can believe you found an AFKer on Dantooine at 3 AM. After all, Dantooine is probibly the fourth most heavily populated world, and seeing as how there are only three starport cantinas, a high traffic one. The Macrotainer knew just what she was doing. No virtue on her part, just an XP gobbler. She knew, like I know, that Dantooine cantinas are the current "go to place" to get healing XP.
Now, if you were on Yavin IV at 3 AM, then its a different story. Here, the traffic is so nonexistant that an AFKer could go a whole month without leveling, and the AFKers know it too. If you saw an AFKer on Yavin IV, I'd be very impressed.
You see, I truly wish that AFK dancers would go where they are needed rather than go where there is XP. I think an AFKer would be a godsend to players at 3 AM on Talus, Rori, Dathomir, Lok, Yavin IV, as well as Wayfar, Bela Vistal, Moenia, and other places that are not high traffic areas, yet still are used. Problem is, no AFKer in their right mind would go to these places. Even you, Greatsails, have to admit that a good 90 percent of AFKers go to the "grind capitals" on the major worlds, and that your encounter was the exception, not the rule. However, live dancers can and often do go tomany different placesplaces, if only to run a mission or two during prime hours. See, AFKers go AFK, not to be egalitarian as much as to get XP by hook or crook. If people end up happy because of it, so be it. I'm not saying live dancers don't want XP as well. They do. I do think its a secondary preoccupation with live dancers, the primary one being your satisfaction...now if we can only get more Brits on the live servers to perform at 3 AM....