Dancer Archive
Thread: Yay, and thanks to all you AFK Macro-ers
people say they have problems getting tips cause of afkers but i just dont see it. especially not on adventure worlds. ive recently started a new musician and i get *mobbed* every time i go to dathomir. i made 50k in an hour the other day. this is not uncommon. even with another afker in the room i still get tips because people dig being able to chat and get buffs and whatnot.
and no i won't "learn" how to use capitals.
for all you people who think afk dancing is going (eventually) go the way of the dodo, let me ask you this.
how?
Well... how do you think all the other games manage to discourage botting ? By employing administrative personal. Obviously SOE has problems finding either competent or simply enough personal to staff their game. But I'm confident that it will change either way... getting better or going down. But I already mentioned that...
if i afk all night i don't ever go <afk>. how do you ask? beats the crap out of me, but the game shows me as ATK alot of the time. perhaps it has something to do with my macro, who knows. so anyway, removing XP gains when afk won't help
You mean the afk flag isn't working. I think thats a smaller part of the problem. It's something that can be fixed by coding. But I already mentioned that...
ok so you say, disable looping macros, they only really help killstealers and afkers right? one line of code is all it would take to remove afking from the game forever. well then why haven't they done it? why not remove /ui action toolbarSlotxx ?
Because it's useful and not the root of the problem. Macroing isn't a problem, unattended gameplay is. And it doesn't matter if it's trough macros, third party tools or time travel in creative combination with telepathy. But I already mentioned that...
why not claim its a EULA violation and let conscience/fear/reports clean up the game? that would be an easy solution woudln't it? yet jeassa comes here and puts the nail in the coffin for that idea.
Because it's about money. Administrative personal costs money. I don't think SOE gets out ahead when they leave the game open to cheating, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are enough idiots like me who see clearly that this game is having big problems ( not botting, but general problems ) but pay nevertheless.
your concerns are minor.
To SOE, my concerns are worth 15$. The same 15$ a bounty hunter pays. The same 15$ a creature handler pays. But if you ask me, this game is only living because of the stupidity of a mass of people ( me included ). If it were to survive on it's own value, it would be history by now.
A final question to all AFK-supporters: Do you really think it's ok ? I mean I have never played another online game where unattended gameplay was allowed. And though SOE said they won't prosecute it, the EULA clearly hints in the same direction any other game has. Apart from the fact that you aren't punished, what makes you think this game is an exception from the rule ? And even if it is, what is the reason other games have this rules ? If the rules have to be there for other games to be fun, how does SWG manage to not need them ?
Imagine this....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=980796
A final question to all AFK-supporters: Do you really think it's ok ?
Yes
I mean I have never played another online game where unattended gameplay was allowed.
Nor have I, but then I never lived anyplace I felt free to vote for whomever I chose until I came to America. Judging this game by standards set for other games is silly. I'm annoyed that I can't kill Orcs, I mean I could in UO, why not here! ARGH!And, how stupid it is that I can't play a Briton when I make my Brawler, I mean DAoC gives me like 3 different varieties of Human, and all I get in SWG is one stupid kind of human. Bah!
And though SOE said they won't prosecute it, the EULA clearly hints in the same direction any other game has.
It hints? Maybe you should be a lawyer, for that's a nice try to find a loophole in the "rules" to justify your gripes. Attourney for the plantiff, please step forward ...
Apart from the fact that you aren't punished, what makes you think this game is an exception from the rule?
First, what rule are we drawing exceptions to? The Rule that AFK advancement in other MMORPGs is bad? In that case, yes, this *is* an exception to the rule. And why, you ask, do I think thussly? You answer your own question. I am not "punished," nor even limited. They allow it, and have not addressed it. I can only assume this is working as intended. Don't call it a bug, because the Devs have often told us that certain bugs they've been made aware of, and even things that aren't bugs but game mechanics easy to take advantage of, are exploits and tell us we shall be punished for their use. Let's hear a Dev tell me I shall not AFK macro my way to Master X or be appropriately sanctioned. <listens to the crickets and the otherwise silence from the audience>
Exactly.
And even if it is, what is the reason other games have this rules?
Once again, 100% irrelevent, but if you really want to know, maybe you ought to ask the Devs of those games, for only they can know for sure. All else is pure conjecture, and again, irrelevent.
If the rules have to be there for other games to be fun, how does SWG manage to not need them ?
I have plenty of fun, and so do lots of other people. In fact, I've played most of the MMOGs ever made, and I've never enjoyed one as much as I enjoy this one.How has this been achieved in the face of all this evil AFKing? Beats me. I just know that I have lots of fun, and so do lots of other people. If your fun is ruined, you can deal with it, or leave, Those 2 options are very simple. You can try to get the devs to change this, but if you think you're banging your head against the wall with the AFK supporters, try addressing this with the Devs. Meeuki is right, this ain't going to change anytime in our forseeable futures. Deal with it or don't, it's up to you.
A final question to all AFK-supporters: Do you really think it's ok ?
Yes
Wow. Then I guess there are people out there with less clues concerning game design than the DEVs. Pretty impressive feat if I may say so.
I mean I have never played another online game where unattended gameplay was allowed.
Nor have I, but then I never lived anyplace I felt free to vote for whomever I chose until I came to America. Judging this game by standards set for other games is silly. I'm annoyed that I can't kill Orcs, I mean I could in UO, why not here! ARGH!And, how stupid it is that I can't play a Briton when I make my Brawler, I mean DAoC gives me like 3 different varieties of Human, and all I get in SWG is one stupid kind of human. Bah!
You might be surprised by what other countries have democratic structures. There are many. And even american freedom of speech is no absolute.Not every speech is tolerated by US law. Judging this game by standards of other games is what humans normally do. Judging by things they already know. And judging by games I have seen, unattended gameplay is bad and therefore forbidden in most games. If people manage to break this rules, the games go down and start being fun only for the minority that likes unattended gameplay.
And though SOE said they won't prosecute it, the EULA clearly hints in the same direction any other game has.
It hints? Maybe you should be a lawyer, for that's a nice try to find a loophole in the "rules" to justify your gripes. Attourney for the plantiff, please step forward ...
Well, read he EULA please. What part of"you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play." was hard to understand ? I'd say that's a pretty good hint that unattended gameplay is not wanted. If you manage to interpret it otherwise, please give us a glimpse at your understanding of that sentence.
Apart from the fact that you aren't punished, what makes you think this game is an exception from the rule?
First, what rule are we drawing exceptions to? The Rule that AFK advancement in other MMORPGs is bad? In that case, yes, this *is* an exception to the rule. And why, you ask, do I think thussly? You answer your own question. I am not "punished," nor even limited. They allow it, and have not addressed it. I can only assume this is working as intended. Don't call it a bug, because the Devs have often told us that certain bugs they've been made aware of, and even things that aren't bugs but game mechanics easy to take advantage of, are exploits and tell us we shall be punished for their use. Let's hear a Dev tell me I shall not AFK macro my way to Master X or be appropriately sanctioned. <listens to the crickets and the otherwise silence from the audience>
Exactly.
Exactly what ? Did you read that sentence in green ? If you don't answer it, don't quote it. You aren't punished, because it would cost money. And losing a couple of dancers seems cheaper in the short run. Yes, that's an assumption. Like every other sentence in this long thread.
And even if it is, what is the reason other games have this rules?
Once again, 100% irrelevent, but if you really want to know, maybe you ought to ask the Devs of those games, for only they can know for sure. All else is pure conjecture, and again, irrelevent.
No matter how irrelevant it is, you have an oppinion, don't you ? Why do you think it's ok to have a bot here, but it's cheating to have a bot in UO or Counterstrike ? What's the difference between these games that allows SWG to escape the consequences of unattended gameplay that UO and CS fear ?
If the rules have to be there for other games to be fun, how does SWG manage to not need them ?
I have plenty of fun, and so do lots of other people. In fact, I've played most of the MMOGs ever made, and I've never enjoyed one as much as I enjoy this one.How has this been achieved in the face of all this evil AFKing? Beats me. I just know that I have lots of fun, and so do lots of other people. If your fun is ruined, you can deal with it, or leave, Those 2 options are very simple. You can try to get the devs to change this, but if you think you're banging your head against the wall with the AFK supporters, try addressing this with the Devs. Meeuki is right, this ain't going to change anytime in our forseeable futures. Deal with it or don't, it's up to you.
If someone is using an aimbot in Counterstrike, I think I will get the same answer from him: "It's ok. I have fun. Deal with it or leave." I do deal with it in appropriate ways, by telling the DEVs they need to do something one way or another. Punish AFKers or allow third party software and create a bot heaven. One way or another, unattended gameplay needs a clear rule: allowed or punished.
ok this is kinda silly argument. i am currently mastering dnacing because the holo said to, and i am also using macros. but i am actually behind the keyboard chatting people. i get into a group and let the exp start rolling in.
i blame the dev's for asking people to master a profession they have no interest in playing. that only encourages and ultimatley rewards grinding AFK'ers.
my question is why you just dont ignore the AFK players?
nvoigt wrote:
Because this is an online game and one players behaviour online affects all others. I'm tired of explaining this all over again, sorry for this very short explanation. Just ask yourself why you don't just ignore aimbot users in Counterstrike. You cannot, because they affect you as well, not only themselves.
You can't keep using other games rules and/or problems to try to support your arrgument. Those don't apply to this game.
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Greatsails wrote:
Let's hear a Dev tell me I shall not AFK macro my way to Master X or be appropriately sanctioned.
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The designers are working on ways to make AFK entertaining less desirable. I'm not sure where they are in the process.
In the meantime, I agree with most of the posters here. Don't tip AFK entertainers. If you have a choice, watch/listen to a non-AFK entertainer instead of an AFK one. Whenever possible try to role play with Entertainers. It keeps you both engaged and is a good way to learn about local news/legends.
The true purpose of a cantina is a meeting place where you will more than likely run into other players and learn from them or start groups with them.
Kevin "Q-3PO" O'Hara
SWG Community Relations Manager
I guess it is official enough to show, what the Devs think about afk macroing.
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Aniella (Gorath) Dancer, Fencer
>Those don't apply to this game.
Why not ? They apply to all online games. They even apply to non-online games. They apply to tic tac toe even: Don't cheat the other players. It's that simple.
scttkrkwd wrote:i blame the dev's for asking people to master a profession they have no interest in playing. that only encourages and ultimatley rewards grinding AFK'ers.
I agree with you there, 100%. They should never have done the holo thing, and in the first place mastery of multiple random professions should not have been used as the way to get a Jedi. But unfortunately the developers don't see it that way. /sigh
As to "why not just ignore them," well I have tried. But to quote Sultrina, "When you are trying to dance in a sewer of AFKers who occupy the middle of the dance floor, you have no room to work." The typical response to this is, "Well, go somewhere else," but this strikes me as monumentally unfair. If I could do my thing where I wanted to and not be bothered by the AFKers would be one thing. But why should THEY get to have whatever cantina they want, and *I* have to take the leftovers, being constrained to dance in the cantinas the AFKers haven't found or don't want -- ones where there's no healing Exp to be gotten, no groups from which to gain knowledge exp faster, etc, etc? This is the ONE point the AFK supporters seem unwilling or unable to address. They keep saying "Go somewhere else" but why is it fair for me to be chased out of a cantina that had been quite pleasant until the AFKers showed up and the AFKers get to stay in the place I liked? Don't I pay the same $15 a month they do? Why do they get precedence over me?
C
EddieChang wrote:
You can't keep using other games rules and/or problems to try to support your arrgument. Those don't apply to this game.
Sure they do. There are tons and tons of experiences that are analogous or similar enough you can draw logical conclusions about the consequences of something in game #2 because of the consequences something similar had in game #1.
A quick, obvious, silly-ish, but nevertheless illustrative example. Cheating is bad for any game. Not just online RPGs. Saying, "You can't say cheating will ruin monopoly just because it ruined Chutes and Ladders" is silly. There is a general principle here: Cheating ruins the game. Games have rules for a reason: to balance things and make them equally challenging and fun for all players. Breaking the rules and cheating destroys that balance and makes the game less fun for everyone. So just because you've not yet seen anyone cheat at Monopoly doesn't mean you can't draw conclusions from having seen cheating ruin everybody's fun in Chutes and Ladders.
Now, I am not saying AFK macroing is cheating. By the current CSR interpretation of the EULA it is not. Jeassa and others have said this. But, it is perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions about something that was bad for game #2, also being bad in game #1, #3, etc.
Nvoigt is saying, "These things were banned from other online RPGs for a reason, and while those games may not be exactly like SWG, the same general principles apply here as they do to the other games." If the same general principles did not apply across game platforms, it would take much, much longer to develop games than it does, because developers would not be able to use their experiences from previous games to create the current one. But they DO use those experiences, because general principles are just that -- general principles -- and do not change with the specifics of any particular game.
C