Creature Handler Archive

Whether pet experience needs to be lowered or done away with altogether is a subject for debate, but it cannot remain as is. Certainly there are those that do not mind this endless new combat grind, but those are the same type of players that do not mind unlocking jedi. What about all our non-combat oriented handlers? Since when does a "combat support" profession need to engage in constant, high-level group combat missions just to learn intimidate 1... after they already mastered their profession??

And what will happen to all the level 10 non-handler mounts we rarely have seen in the past? Who will spend the time to raise a worthless low-level mount now, in this environment? Animals need to grow on their own. Make babies have baby attributes again, not ridiculous level 60 monster babies with a large HAM bar that walks under your feet and gets lost in a bush. If you want to keep the combat aspects balanced, make it so specials still need to be found and learned from the animal, maybe even taught and trained to the animal. But do not force a non-combat player to engage in this level of constant combat in order tosaddle a level 10 dwarf banthamount, there is no logical reason for this...

To be clear, sizing is one of my main issues. And unfortunately, you do have to fight... unless you want to walk around everywhere with a miniature dewback following you. Many new players may not realize this, but in the old days whenever we complained that our pets are utterly useless against any semi-intelligent buffed PVP player wearing composite armor... we were told we are NOT a dedicated combat profession. Many of us adapted to our obvious limitations and found new playstyles, others like myself stayed out of pure love for the profession.

And to clarify further, I am a combat oriented player... and I love that our animals present a new threat in PVP. I am very excited about all the changes and I am thankful for their effort. But I am concerned for all the crafters and entertainers that have filled our ranks during the dark days. What do they get for their dedication? Simply put, you should not have to grind combat to raise a creature or put a saddle on a lesser dewback. And we should not have little rancors the size of nuna's ripping the guts out of krayt dragons. If you want a combat ready pet with specials,THEN you should have to fight and search and learn from your animals. Not to put a saddle on its back so you could take a pleasure ride through the forest...

CH is my only combat profession, In it is the only one That I use to attack or defend myself with. Doctor is now considered a Combat profession ,In the only way you get xp is healing people in Battle.

I mastered CH with out constantly being in combat or I would have none of my other professions.And that is my point,It is difficult to now have more than one profession and gain the needed xp.If I only were being a MCH and did nothing else in game(and it was not bugged) I could perhaps in a year or two have a data-pad of pets comparable to what I had pre-cu.

So I guess the bottom line is some folks like the system,some do not! There are things about it I would probably like if some of the bugs were fixed and some long exsisting issues addressed.

My frustration comes from the feeling that for every step forward we take at least 3 backwards.

Ch is not the only profession that feels that way to many, I see the same things on other profession boards! Everyone excited and pleased about an upgrade till they realize that with the changes they wanted,They got a bunch they did'nt but have to live with anyway.

Ok back to work again.... Hope everyone has a great weekend!

And yes, there were some people that mastered creature handler through nothing but taming and training. This behavior was rare, but it was one of the most interestingaspects about our community. Some handlers simply never intended their animals for combat, we often had these debates about "companion vs weapon" here. I do not see how animals growing naturally would threaten to bring any nerfs upon us, as a bigger size gives us no further benefit in combat...

Grendels right of coarse

CH could be worked on strickly taming and training, as a matter of fact when this game was young it was almost a preferred method since armor/buffs were not around in the 03 envirement. I personally did both I would hunt with friends and get xp with combat for a couple days, then I would run off into the wilds and tame and train all day. it broke the boredom up and allowed me a fresh perspective on pets, abilities and creature types wich brings me to my real point.

The new system as I have been reading for months is turning CH into a macro wonderland.

Ko buddy how are ya man, glad to see your still hanging in there.

As a cor and a ch of good moral character may I ask you an honest question or two.

Do you believe that the ch grind/pet grind is slowly turning ch intoan afk macro grind profession and is it a good thing for the profession? If so why?

If not then what can we do and or suggest to the devs to make this profession more enjoyable to promote atk play?

I have some suggestions I wrote in my i'm back thread if ya wanna pop in there, maybe I'l try and make the reading a little easier and toss a little more detail in.

My top 5 issues would definalty be

!. Make CH enjoyable again for everyone and promote atk play (New Pet XP System Must Be Altered)

2. Diverisity in creatures/pets what we have toda is far from diverse.

3. Of coarse lets fix the bugs we have still here since 2003 (I slid across the floor the other day for example)

4. Content does not equal grind how about opening the kesh quest for all ch those who bought expansions from stores too... A few other quest are not a bad idea considering soe wants people to actually play this game lol.

5. Yea I know these are not really bugs or anything I'm reporting because we have a place for thatyou know the tiggs daily bug thread. I want CH to grow fixing it is they're responsibility. My number five is - Although xp for novice ch's grinding is based as everything else on the level sytem and the xp earned will soon be revamped as they tried to do recently but failed (because too many people hit the cancell button by the way LOL) When xp is balanced for groups increased xp should be given for pets not the same xp shared with a ch for his pistol being used or split because two pets are used. XP should also still be allowed through taming/training. CH must stop being penalised to balance everyone else, we are not like evryone else and should be considered seperatly at times such as this.

Message Edited by jopenack on 09-23-2005 05:17 PM

excellent job. I hope these issues get considered

Roguestar

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Amethyst-Moonshadow wrote:

I'd love it if they made the xp requirements a little lower, but realize that if the xp requirements are TOO low, then it'll be too easy for everyone on the server to grab some CH, level up an "uber" pet (now that we have these great specials that can be built into any pet, like KD, stun, blind, etc. to make up for lack of these abilities in other combat professions or to complement other combat profs) ... and then suddenly we'll get hit by the nerf bat. Our specials won't be so special, and our pets will get nerfed even more. We're on the low end of damage output balance against other combat professions as it is, why get us nerfed down even more so?

I understand where you're coming from. My other MCH on Shadowfire lost an entire datapad of pets as well. But we're not the only profession that had to "start over" after the CU. It brought big changes that required us to re-learn other professions, too. Some lost full sets of amazing armor or weapons that were no longer viable and had to spend millions of credits to adjust. At least we don't have to spend money. I like the challenge it brings and the fact that it gives us something to do once we've mastered. Before, you mastered CH and... then what? Now we can (only if we want to, we're not being forced to) go out and get specials to make our pets unique, and every pet we own can be completely different than the others, and no two pets would be alike. I like that we can tweak our pets and make our pets more useable and viable in combat. Did I like the way that SOE implemented these changes to the veteran CHs with full datapads? No. Do I think they could've made that implementation a little bit smoother or easier on veteran CHs? Yes of course! But then again, when you make such a major radical change to a system (and we're not the only profession that got radical changes) it's more fair to have everyone start off at square one. I don't think veteran CHs should've automatically known all of the specials without having to do anything when the change hit, for example. Yes, we worked hard in the past to master CH, but... we didn't put any work into our pets to give them the stats that they had because we didn't have to... they were just naturally "uber." Again, they could've implemented things better/easier for veteran CHs, but I'm not upset I wasn't automatically given all of the new abilities or given fully unlocked ability slots on all my pets. Even if I had fought with x pet every day for a year, SOE had no way to know that for sure on every single CH and every pet they owned so it would've been unfair to do anything but start everyone at square one.

Anyway, some people like the new system along with its xp requirements, and others don't. We'll find that we're never going to reach a point where everyone is happy. There's always going to be some that don't like it or are upset, so I think it's best to take what we are given and learn to adjust and make the best of it. Perhaps lower the xp requirements a little bit, but I am not for lowering them much if at all just because I don't want to see us nerfed even more when it becomes a piece of cake to level pets. I want CH to be a challenge and not the next FOTM because we cry to make it easier to mature a pet.

Please don't take this as a flame, because it's not meant to be; I'm genuinely concerned. I respect others' opinions on the matter just by agreeing to disagree - we're all entitled to our own $0.02

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I understand what you are saying, and as for your concern with lowering the xp requirement too much, thus possibly attracting some people who take some of the CH tree to make uber pets. Easy fix for it, attach the L3 of abilities to the Master CH block, have the L2 somewhere in the mid range of the tree (pick whichever block you like) and put L1 in the Novice. This would reduce people doing the(I hate this word)DABBLE. Though I see and have no problem with people dabbling, as every player in SWG is a dabbler.

I don't think they would nerf us again (well I hope they would not anyway). But IMO the xp requirement does need to be dropped down some. I think over 400k xp required to roll over a lvl 70 pet is quite rediculous, especially when there is a good chance that the pet won't get an ability slot with each roll over. You may have to go 2 or 3 roll overs before gaining an ability slot. But that is my opinion.

And we need to also have some of the older species specific abilities back, poison especially.

Thanks Amethyst, for your feedback. Very well written.

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GrendelsMother wrote:

Whether pet experience needs to be lowered or done away with altogether is a subject for debate, but it cannot remain as is. Certainly there are those that do not mind this endless new combat grind, but those are the same type of players that do not mind unlocking jedi. What about all our non-combat oriented handlers? Since when does a "combat support" profession need to engage in constant, high-level group combat missions just to learn intimidate 1... after they already mastered their profession??

And what will happen to all the level 10 non-handler mounts we rarely have seen in the past? Who will spend the time to raise a worthless low-level mount now, in this environment? Animals need to grow on their own. Make babies have baby attributes again, not ridiculous level 60 monster babies with a large HAM bar that walks under your feet and gets lost in a bush. If you want to keep the combat aspects balanced, make it so specials still need to be found and learned from the animal, maybe even taught and trained to the animal. But do not force a non-combat player to engage in this level of constant combat in order tosaddle a level 10 dwarf banthamount, there is no logical reason for this...

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I don't 100% agree, but that's ok because I want to understand this better. I am one of the ones that loves the new system and really doesn't have a problem with the xp requirements. Sure, they're a bit steep, but Paryycco gave the EXACT scenario that I fear most in his reply just above of what will undoubtedly happen if we lower the xp requirements... and I guarantee you there will be a lot more complaining then. We don't want the nerf bat! And just because I like the new system and don't mind the xp requirements doesn't mean I am the kind of person that would go jedi or grind a jedi- I don't have a jedi, and never will. I guess it's how you look at the "grind" ... I don't think of it as a grind when I'm out and about doing other things and kill some stuff with my pet. I don't think of it as a grind when my guild gets together to go hunt. It'sfun, and I use my pet in those fun situations and before I know it, I've rolled over in xp again and am ready to teach my pet a new ability.

Also, the last time the devs said anything, we are a combat profession as a CH. Not a combat support profession, but a combat profession.Combat support professions, like Bio-Engineer, for example...do not gain combat levels (or only gain a few) but we as CHs go up in combat levels as much as any other elite combat profession. And nowhere does it say we have to do anything. If you don't want to grind, please don't. If I wanted to grind all day, I'd be back in WoW. I agree 100% with you there. I don't want to grind, so I don't. I find that if I just play normally, I'll eventually get my skills and eventually level my pet. There's no rush and no reason for me to stress over it or try to get to the end game so fast. Then I'd be bored, which is how I was after I mastered CH the first time. I had nothing to work on and nothing to do to improve my pets. Now I do.

I COMPLETELY 100% agree with you here. I think the sizing issue is my number #1 complaint about the changes. Pets should still grow in size over time in your datapad, not based on how much you hunt with it. I don't mind hunting with my pet, but realistically they should grow over time as they naturally get "older." Plus that burdens CHs with the job of leveling non-CH/CL10 pets for non-CHs, which is time consuming.

Sorry, I have to point out again that if you're a CH, you're a combat profession. And you can be non-combat if you don't ever want to fight with your pets (which doesn't make sense to me) but to say that anyone is forcing you to do anything is not true. If you don't want to fight with your pets, no one is making you. I do agree in that paragraph that it's silly for us CHs to be 'saddled' (pun intended) with the burden of leveling CL10 mounts for non-CHs. Something I think would be taken care of if pet sizing/growing went back to the way it used to be.

Message Edited by Amethyst-Moonshadow on 09-23-2005 03:11 PM

Pre CU CH was a combat support profession,Which is why you see so many CH with few combat skills.Post CU you must be a combat nazi to gain xp.It is now a combat profession.

If

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Kontessa wrote:

Pre CU CH was a combat support profession,Which is why you see so many CH with few combat skills.Post CU you must be a combat nazi to gain xp.It is now a combat profession.

If

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It's always been combat-based. You couldn't have mastered CH without combat and fighting constantly with your pets. Maybe it's not your main combat profession like teras kasi, but for some it is their main combat profession and always has been.

"If you don't want to grind please don't".... Just understand that if you don't you will never get any of your pets back up to anywhere close to pre-CU abilities.(with Bugs in The system add more time)

If you have time to hunt alot,it helps! If you need to split your time in-game with non-combat activities, It becomes a long grind to level or raise a pet to adulthood.

Do not hold your breathe exspecting any changes,Changes happen in SWG slowly, and then all at once. Do not get comfortable with anything in-game. Its is subject to change quickly and with little or no warning.Professions-skills and abilities especially.That is just part of playing SWG. You live with it or you quit.

I am glad some servers are seeing more CH's !On Corbantis I rarely see one and most of the ones I knew Have either left or changed templates since CU!

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PirateJolly wrote:


I understand what you are saying, and as for your concern with lowering the xp requirement too much, thus possibly attracting some people who take some of the CH tree to make uber pets. Easy fix for it, attach the L3 of abilities to the Master CH block, have the L2 somewhere in the mid range of the tree (pick whichever block you like) and put L1 in the Novice. This would reduce people doing the(I hate this word)DABBLE. Though I see and have no problem with people dabbling, as every player in SWG is a dabbler.

I don't think they would nerf us again (well I hope they would not anyway). But IMO the xp requirement does need to be dropped down some. I think over 400k xp required to roll over a lvl 70 pet is quite rediculous, especially when there is a good chance that the pet won't get an ability slot with each roll over. You may have to go 2 or 3 roll overs before gaining an ability slot. But that is my opinion.

And we need to also have some of the older species specific abilities back, poison especially.

Thanks Amethyst, for your feedback. Very well written.

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I completely understand where you're coming from. It's not that I wouldn't like seeing the xp requirements go down just to make life easier, I just don't want it to happen for the sake of the profession as a whole. Your idea of making the specials be based on your level of CH is a good one, and I think if they were to do something like that it wouldn't be so bad, but I honestly doubt SOE's ability to see/do anything more than just "lower the xp requirements." And if they were to make that change, does it mean everyone who is not a MCH who has spent hours/days finding a L3 ability will suddenly have it taken away? There'd be a major uproar if so because we all know SOE implements big changes like that first, and asksquestions later. I DEFINITELY think we need to get older species specific abilities like poison or disease back. I was quite sad when I finally got my bull rancor baby post-CU... they used to be so scary with that disease

Anyway, your idea of specials being based on CH levels in conjunction with lowering xp requirements is probably the best solution I've heard that helps make lowering xp requirements feasible. I just can't help but think SOE wouldn't be able to pull it off without causing some major issues that will just make matters worse.

*Flurry hugs*

-Ame