Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Sky Calls for the Death of Non-CH pets
Ax-Fire
Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:05 am
#40
You people need to stop flaming and take note of Juwell's and Kudali's ideaswhich would solve the problemWITHOUT NERFING BE's. Here's the idea in simplified form:
A non-CHshould only be able to give a pet4 commands: follow, stay, trick1, trick2
This would solve the problem once and for all, yet it would still allow non-CH's to use mounts and have companion pets. BE's could make "uber" CL10 pets to their heart's content, but they would be useless as weapons to anyone but a true CH.
Liberation
Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:26 am
#41
/sign
And if we do manage to get some kind of change to the current situation implemented I anticipate a huge influx of 'combat capable' droids in place of the bugbear level 10 monsters!
Gyorgy
Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:49 am
#42
Well, i have no clue what lvl they should be able to control (5 or whatever). I just think that a non-ch pet should have a maximum of like this:
HAM 3000
Kin res 30%
No good specials like strong poison/disease, intimidate, KD
I already posted that in BE forum in a thread about lvl 10 pets.
I've even seen somebody sellingnon-ch pets with 10k (or 11k)Health, strong poison (!!!???)and 60% kin res lately. That's a bad joke! Those pets need to taken out of the game quickly. Or make our lvl 70pets 7 times better (ha ha).
sadnebula
Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:17 am
#43
Sky you've a good point with this post. On one hand i can see that having this type of non ch pet is a slap to we ch. I mean this is about equal to a lv 25 boar wolf, therefore this should be addressed. On the other, non ch should have pets that are of more use than eye candy. It would seem that this needs to be balanced * ducks as the word balance is used, fearing head shot by nerf bat* The devs have painted themselves into a corner on this one. We were balanced, now it seems that certain aspects of that balance along with the be revamp has unbalanced us. It would seem to the layman that a simple coding fix is needed. I know that nothing is simple so this may be one of those things that is more of a headache to fix than its worth.
........... GIVE US WILD PETS LV 10 AND UP WE CAN TAME AND SELL , 6 TO 10K HAM 60%, MAKE SOME OF THEM RARES so we can hawk rare uber non ch pets in the market for 1.5 million credits each, free training with each purchase.
........... GIVE US WILD PETS LV 10 AND UP WE CAN TAME AND SELL , 6 TO 10K HAM 60%, MAKE SOME OF THEM RARES so we can hawk rare uber non ch pets in the market for 1.5 million credits each, free training with each purchase.
EccoTon
Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:30 am
#44
I have simple feelings about this. Also I have a great working relationship and respect for BEs. No combat pets period for non-handlers and mounts should not be able to attack once saddled. However, BE should be able to make and upgrade mounts for all players. They should be able to create a mount as fast as the slowest speeder. This would then make mounts more appealing and offset buisness they might loss as a result of losing the non-handler combat buisness.
Ecco
BionicBurp
Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:46 am
#45
I am learnin CH now, 3334, its hard work as you CH's probably know, I am using the tame/train/release non-combat route.
When I heard about these non-ch pets, I was gutted, I still am, I am serioulsly thinking of canning CH.
I am new to swg, but I knew that CH was a bit of a nerfed profession when I started it, but I took it anyway cuz its cool, but this exploit really makes a mockery of it.
Ub007
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:00 am
#46
all of this talk of nerfing level 10 creatures is a fairly moot point when any brawler class can by far out tank a non-ch creature after a week or less of leveling.
Liberation
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:35 am
#47
So they can out-tank it and then still keep their 6k 'meatshield' - sorry to use that term but that is how they view the pet. Hardly a moot point imho.
jopenack
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:43 am
#48
I dont want lvl10 pets nerfed, I want the exploit fixed, and again as in past post why cant they have a ham cap like a lvl cap for non ch.
ie; non ch calls a pet with 10k ham, system recognises he is non ch and pet has ham over 3k (or whatever) and blocks the calling ability with an error message and directions to go to a ch trainer for a lvl 10 trade in.
its been done already with the lvl15 - lvl10 conversion they just need to change it to hm instead of lvl. ok im no programmer but I dont see this to be such a big deal. If it takes a week or month it should be fixed since these exploited pets have been around over 11 months, yes I saw them 11months ago.
The devs have been aware of them just as long and constantly say they will get to it someday.
For those who think this flaming and believe they can change things by preaching to be's and ch's who make and train em you are just making the problem worse by making light of the need for a fix and that ethics can save the day.
the pet summoning thing was fixed not because ch were harassed but because people read it on the forums and started doing it to all pets and droids, doctors buffing in cities screamed. krayts being exploited was quickely fixed in comparison because it practiced by many and all proffesions cryed foul. So why should we not ask for it to be fixed or even demand it fixed, why must the ch communtiy always be the ones who have to sit and wait and wait and wait wghile our profession has been torn to shreds and reduced to a useless class while non ch laugh at us and use these exploits.
This is not flaming,It is my opinion backed up by the facts and history of this issue.
If you sit back and try to play with words and a smile while a theif steals your wallet all the while preaching to him the error of his ways. the end result will still be you got robbed except the theif will also think you a fool and laugh for months over it.
LyteFoot
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:44 am
#49
I don't understand how these pets even exist. I got a BE cu pa to replace my wild onebefore I dropped CH. The pet had just slightly over 1k ham. When I tamed it I got a dialog telling me it was over powered and that I could either change the level of the pet or the stats. Since I wanted it specifically to be non-CH I electedstats and it dropped it to 900 on all HAM. How do these monsters exist if I can't even get the system to accept a mildly enhanced non-CH pet?
Wallach1
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:17 am
#50
Okay, here's my take on all this and my reasoning....
I agree with everyone that level 10 critters with 10k HAM and 60% resist, though maybe not an exploit, in my opinion is exploitive (that really a word?)
I just looked at all the CL 10 creatures on SWGcreatures.com, tamable, nontambable, agressive and non-agressive, and with the exception of a couple, the average was
No more than 20% resistance and that was only to 2 items.
HAM on average being 900
On Average all animals only have 1 special, and most of them were Intimidate
Damage was on average 90-110
Not bad for a n00b, but definatly nothing you want to hunt rancors with. Now, I don't mind a BE making CL 10 pets, and I agree, a BE pet should be a bit better than a wild pet, because hey, they are playing with genetics here.
Now, using the above as a basis, this is my take,
BE CL 10
No more than 40% on any 1 resist with no more than 2 other resists not exceeding 20%
Average HAM should not exceed 1800 on any bar.
2 specials is fine, but should only be specials avaliable for this catagory, i.e; Intimidate, cripling strike, mild poison, blind.
Average damage should not exceed 150
That's just my thought on this. They should be better, but some MasterRifleman shouldn't have a CL 10 pet that could stand toe to toe with my GPS, right?
Tstorm
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:24 am
#51
SkyPreacher1 wrote:"shrug" BE's aren't selling many pets to CH's cause there is not a lot of CH's left in the game, so then their only next customer base is non CH's.
I know you're posting your opinion here (and there are some that agree with you), but I think saying that there aren't a lot of CH's left in the game is purely speculative. There may have been some very vocal CH's that left the game/profession in a very vocal manner, but I think that there are many satisfied as well as semi-frustrated CH's out there that just don't participate in the forums. Heck, did anyone know I was a CH (and was a CH in Beta) until I started posting in this forum en masse over the past couple of weeks?
I think there are a lot of explainations why BE's aren't selling many pets to CH's and only one of those reasons might be a lack of CH's. Other explainations include:
- A CH player might also be a BE and might be making his/her own pets
- A CH player might be on the "BE's are the root of all evil" side and just use wild pets
- A CH player might just plain not understand BE pets and just doesn't bother with them at all
- A CH player already has the pets he/she likes and doesn't need anymore
I think all of these reasons hold merit, but the last one is one that I think may deserve further discussion. Pets don't "decay" like weapons or armor. If I were to buy a BE pet, would I ever need a replacement anytime in the forseeable future? Unless I'm really rough on my pets and it loses vitality all the time (which I can repair somewhat with vitality packs), chances are it could be months if not years before I need a replacement.
SkyPreacher1 wrote:My other suggestion to the BE forum was that we petition the Devs to allow us to manipulate pet secondary stats, or make pet buffs that BE's can apply and will stick with the pet even though stored for a certain length of time, or pet buffs only master CH's can apply. Am open to suggestions here.
I hope by "petition the Devs" you don't mean a post with a subject of "Petition to Devs: xxx". The Devs may or may not see such a thing and although I know some people doubt it is effective, but the correct way is for the Correspondant to put such ideas in front of the Devs. I think the Correspondants have been feeding the Devs with information, but the communication back to the community has been lacking and/or the answer is one the community doens't want to hear.
I do agree that BE's need a niche (as do CH's) and it is lacking a bit at the moment. I like the pet buff idea, but I'd make it mirror player buffs a bit more. Make it so that doctors cannot buff pets first off, but let any CH buff a pet (with increasing effectiveness maxing out at MCH). BE's would make the buff packs and the buffs applied would stick with called pets that come with you on shuttlerides. Of course this is all hinging on what the Devs do with buffs as a whole as part of the combat rebalance (hopefully tone them down a bit as buffs in general are way too powerful).
Another thought is that although pets stop growing when they reach their final CL, maybe they should age and eventually die? I guess this is similar to vitality, but either way, pets shouldn't last forever like they pretty much do now. Perhaps a CH advantage would be that "wild" pets live longer then BE pets. BE designed pets get better stats, but don't live as long.
I have noticed, however, that this thread has gone from talking about uber non-CH pets to how BEs and CHs should function and get along. BEs and CHs have long had debates about their place in game and I think the only thing the two communities will agree on is that we disagree with each other.
Ideas are a great thing, but I don't think any "petitioning" in the world is going to fix it until the Devs decide to make it a priority (and I think they have other priorities these days). The best thing I can suggest is that the CH and BE communities should keep after their Correspondants to make sure that they are putting our concerns in front of the Devs. The Correspondants also need to push for responses for the community (even if it isn't what we want to hear) and I think that has been the missing piece.
Bendi_James
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:26 am
#52
Well I guess taking the high ground and thinking I could possiblypersuade folks to use ethics and morals to fix a problem is overly optimistic and basically, a wash. So here is what I will do...
I will play Devil's advocate, and see what people think by asking a few questions.
What is the primary use ofCH and Non-CHpets? I heard this asked about a million times many moons ago and the results were generally, 1. Support/Defense, 2. Weapons, 3. Companions. I guess we could say all three are primary usesforprofessional CH's but, which primary use of pets is the Non-CH generally drawn to? What function of a pet isthe Non-CHinterested in? No-brainer here...
IMHO, they need tanks......... either to run interference while thecrafter checks his harvesters or say .....to help a Brawler level up to TKM. So lets say the primary base for Non-CH's having a pet isn't a weapon, isn't companionship but, simply for its tanking ability.
Ok...fine and dandy. Let's say we ask the Devs to give Non-CH's the ability to have a pet but, with limited commands...making the pet either a mount or companion...no combat. How many pets will a CH train in a month for mounts or as simple companions for players? I wager not too many because vehicles are pretty staple right now for transportation and companions thingis more attributed to the CH who knows and loves their pets.
Let's say we kill the opportunity for Non-CH's to have the ability to have a creature pet altogether....How does this affect the businesses of CH or BE's? I know BE's can fall back on tissue sales and concentrate on making higher level creatures which is not such a bad thing for me personally. However, you guys and gals, the CH's,are back to meat gathering for a profit which is not bad thing either since most good meat brings a pretty penny, mounting is for personal purposes and groupingas asupport role is almost non-existent today.
I miss the old days when everyone got together to go theSquill Caves on Tat. Those were good times but, those days area fading memory. I know some will say, "I still group alot...blah, blah, blah....You are not kidding me on this one, I know the truth and it was one of the reasons I left the game for 5 months. Everyone was doing for themselves anddoing the profession grind to Jedi. A gamebreakerIMHO. But, hey...here I am again playing SWG.
So, let's say we can persuade theDevs to fix BE'd CL10'sHAM to be no more than 1K/1K/1K 15% Kinetic MAX doing no more than90-100 damage. That would be cool for most and balanced. Ooooo.....I'm all for that. But wait....we have already done that.....huh?
Enter the "invalid pet check" that the BE's have struggled with for months.This was the fix to curtailhigh level BE pets getting into the hands of Non-CH's. It seems that it has done quite the opposite. It is difficult for BE's to make regular pets like this or we get the "Invalid Pet" thing when a Non-CHcalls the pet. Then it is, "Hey jerk, you soldme an invaild pet, You suck, I want my money back....and on and on." On the other hand,the monster CL10 pets never see hide or hair of the infamous invalidpet check. Go figure.
You see, when you ask the Devs to fix somethingthat will appease"multiple"professionsyou willsolicita swing with the nerf bat.....on most occassions...something most players do not want. I know, I know...."Is it so much to ask to ask theDev to do it right?....I pay$15 a month to play a gamethat is broke and I want it fixed...etc.. That arguement seems to be working........ right? Hmmmmm.....
In summary, knowing the ability of the devs to "fix" things and make it right for the masses, against the knowledge of how the professions will be affected by killingthe Non-CH program altogether....I am going to side withthe Sky man and say kill it. I dont' wanta half-arse fixto appease everyone. Just kill it and be done with it. I will move on and do other things and the CH profession can once again be "purified".
On another note, I guess that could help the DE profession too.....lol. Lord knows they need the business selling their pets/droids. Peace.