Creature Handler Archive

Thread: I really dont like the sound of this

Suhail_Akbar
Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:22 pm
#40

I think this has to do with Def Stacking and not picking back up and entire Profession like letting former Master Ch's Come back to the profession or letting a profession becoming the FOTM over night.

What I believe will happen is that lets say that in TKA they move all the bounues from Meditative Tech to another line and replace it with something else that wont help def stackers. Now the TKM's will pick whatever the new line becomes. But the def Stackers that have something of everything will want to continue to Def Stack. So they will pick up something else.

How that will work is a Person who has a number of points axed by this upgrade will get to reallocate those points into whatever they want.

so in most cases that will be 14 points for a line. Now for arguements sake Some Def Staker only has 4000 in TKA. My guess is that they will only be given the 14 points within TKA that got MOVED. It would make since to me that said person will not also get the Unarmed Line back as well. They will have to drop and regrind that or whatever they wish to have. They will use that 14 points in another Elite profession they ALREADY have or use them in novice profession. Which would suck since you already grinded all that XP. This would encourage Mastering and discourage some def stakers.

And if an entire Profession gets cut from SWG then they will get all of the points within said profession.

Just my 2 cents on how it could happen.
slave138
Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:53 pm
#41

There are a few problems with this:






Suhail_Akbar wrote:
I think this has to do with Def Stacking and not picking back up and entire Profession like letting former Master Ch's Come back to the profession or letting a profession becoming the FOTM over night.


The Devs are making it sound like they want to place more of an emphasis on each profession's role. To do this, they will need to set up the skills in a way that encourages more mastery and less 'dabbling'. If that's the case, they will probably want and/or expect players to migrate their skills to master a certain profession or two.

What I believe will happen is that lets say that in TKA they move all the bounues from Meditative Tech to another line and replace it with something else that wont help def stackers. Now the TKM's will pick whatever the new line becomes. But the def Stackers that have something of everything will want to continue to Def Stack. So they will pick up something else.


This really wouldn't solve anything. If all they are doing is shuffling around the 'Def Stack' abilities, they might as well not even make any changes. Besides that, Tyrant was very clear in saying that defensive stacking was going to go. My best guess is that they will end up moving the defensive bonuses to the 4th tier skills within their respective professions to make it difficult/impossible for someone to stack more than a few together. Either that or they will spread out the bonuses like they did the Max CL in the CH revamp/nerf.

How that will work is a Person who has a number of points axed by this upgrade will get to reallocate those points into whatever they want.

so in most cases that will be 14 points for a line. Now for arguements sake Some Def Staker only has 4000 in TKA. My guess is that they will only be given the 14 points within TKA that got MOVED. It would make since to me that said person will not also get the Unarmed Line back as well. They will have to drop and regrind that or whatever they wish to have. They will use that 14 points in another Elite profession they ALREADY have or use them in novice profession. Which would suck since you already grinded all that XP. This would encourage Mastering and discourage some def stakers.

And if an entire Profession gets cut from SWG then they will get all of the points within said profession.

Just my 2 cents on how it could happen.


I think they should allow the skill migration but at a lesser value. For example, with the skills, each tier can only be migrated to a level below the one it is on. So if they have an elite master, it can be migrated to any skill box besides another elite master, a 4th tier can only be migrated to a 3rd tier or lower, etc... This way the players aren't complete screwed if their profession goes in a direction they are not interestedin playing but without giving them a completely free pass to master any profession they want.










~Ahnaki Obe
Adventurer
FORMER Master Carbineer | Freelance Flight Artist
CANCELLED


~Cayce Obe
Crafter
FORMER Master Artisan | Master Shipwright | Droid Engineer | Merchant
CANCELLED



SioBabble
Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:06 pm
#42

Guys, don't jump to conclusions.


Theconcept is similar to the restructure of Jedi in pub 9. Jedi were able to reallocate SP instantly to build radically different templates than the ones they had before, because the profession was totally restructured, much more radically than either of the previous restructurings of CH, for example.




Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


Pluto9Moon
Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:13 pm
#43


Sio,


Forgive me for pointing out that you say do not jump to conclusions but then say the very thing we feel is wrong is best exampled by the Jedi Revamp.


CH was so restructured it caused a mass exodus from our profession. Granted most were FOTM PvP players. The point is I (as an MCH) do not want an influx of overnight MCH. They left of their own rationalization of a broken system. They found other professions that were softer and gentler for them. We the hardcore CH stood by and tried to make CH better. Often led by our own concepts of what made CH cool.


Tivo, Freth, fantoq, Blind, Kzin, meroc, Seiyuu, Sky, Matsuba, the list is large of people who made contributions to CH and held out as long as they could. Much longer than many who surrendered in December. We CH who did not surrender should not be slapped one more time for believing that SOE would some day make things right.


Now that they are making things right with the CU istelf, I can not see any rationale for complete character overhauls on the Live Servers. There is no valid, sound, logical or rational explanation for making things easy for those who already had things easier than they should have, or would have if the CU had been done properly. You know even if CH sucks after this CU, I do not want a free ride to be any other class.


I grinded my way through DE making what gave the most points with what materials I had. Then when I wanted to make a few good droids for myself before surrendering I did not know how. The best way to get through any profession is to play it.


CH was already changed and we had to suffer through fundamental and radical changes and relearn skills that fit best to our templates. There should be no Blue Frogs as we did not get free tickets out of our situation. And now no one should have one into CH. There are things that are absolutely fair for all people for all times. This is one of them. This is not the test server. This is live. If there is going to be a radical change so be it.


But no Blue Frogs.



Sign for Hutt Faction here: Hutt Faction

Not against broad changes, just profession specific ones (read as CH) that go against what we've been told in the past.
(I hired Trayson as a ghost writer for a good tagline)
Joker9125
Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:05 pm
#44

I think were all basing all this on what whe know of the CB. Next to nothing! I personally think that the skill trees themselves are going to change allowing for greater specialization in the professions and costing more SP to master. So in short I belive this will be required because of how radically the skill tree system itself will change



http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=218063">Clicky To My Sticky

"If nothing else, I've got time to explore some of the other games my friends are playing. It could easily be argued that the NGE is the best thing ever to happen to guild wars" - Me

Velitham MCH
SioBabble
Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:05 am
#45

Pluto, I can't really say much more, but I'll definitely convey the concern. It's already being discussed on the CU boards.




Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


Joker9125
Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:15 am
#46

This is yet another reason we need to see those docs.



http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=218063">Clicky To My Sticky

"If nothing else, I've got time to explore some of the other games my friends are playing. It could easily be argued that the NGE is the best thing ever to happen to guild wars" - Me

Velitham MCH
Pluto9Moon
Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:40 pm
#47

Sio,

Be assured that I would feel better if you did not try to comment back. I respect the position the Sandbox people are in right now.

But I also cannot say enough that it seems that many CH DO feel the same about Blue Frogs on Live.

Joker is correct as well. No documents only serve to further speculation and suspicion. Clearly I cannot see any benefit of using the Blue Frog. I love CH and stuck with it through its borkedness.

IF someone left its their choice. It is SOE's choice to allow people to move easily from one profession to another.

If the blue frog goes into the game will it always be there every time there is a radical change to any profession? If not it is not fair to do it this time. Or any other time. This is an ethical dilemma and is about fairness. Using the same rules for all time for identical situations.

Merit is not given by a blue frog. Giving anyone a Master Title via a blue frog on live totally discredits any master who worked their way up their chosen profession.



Sign for Hutt Faction here: Hutt Faction

Not against broad changes, just profession specific ones (read as CH) that go against what we've been told in the past.
(I hired Trayson as a ghost writer for a good tagline)
slave138
Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:50 am
#48






Pluto9Moon wrote:
Sio,

If the blue frog goes into the game will it always be there every time there is a radical change to any profession? If not it is not fair to do it this time. Or any other time. This is an ethical dilemma and is about fairness. Using the same rules for all time for identical situations.

Merit is not given by a blue frog. Giving anyone a Master Title via a blue frog on live totally discredits any master who worked their way up their chosen profession.




The situation this time really isn't the same as a profession revamp/nerf. The drastic changes aren't just for one profession or another, they will be for the majority of the professions in the game. There is no way they can do this and have it be fair to everyone. To some it will not be fair if the three professions they ground XP in are all suddenly changed in a direction they do not like. Others, like yourself, feel it is not fair to allow someone to make a quick hop to a different profession they find more to their liking.


I really don't see them doing it in the Blue Frog style but rather as a migration of skills.





~Ahnaki Obe
Adventurer
FORMER Master Carbineer | Freelance Flight Artist
CANCELLED


~Cayce Obe
Crafter
FORMER Master Artisan | Master Shipwright | Droid Engineer | Merchant
CANCELLED



jopenack
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:30 am
#49


Sio as Pluto said dont reply lol we need you in the sandbox :-)


looking at the jtl skill boxes for Pilot and I was told you cannot advance until you are 1/1/1/1 then tier 2 u need 2/2/2/2 before you can go to the 3rd tier of skills.....


seeing how they have designed the fs boxes where you need 4 columns of a skill to count towards the fs exit quest and initiate.


My theory is the profession skill trees may be changing dramatically. dabbling may be harder and people who have lets say medic 2/0/3/0 for better stims and higher heals (basically using up xtra points in a useful way) may find themselves unable to keep this system.


if my theory is true judging by what I seen the devs leaning to lately, then the frog would be the fix to this and apease the masses.


I agree with not allowing people to create the next uber profession instantly (if it will even be possible that is lol)


so to sum this up


we may not have a choice in the matter and it may be needed becuase the tree structures and how we shall be permitted to advance may change


this is just a theory I have, it isnot based on any facts so please dont start screaming dev nerf lol

but it may explain why the frog was even brought into this.


Message Edited by jopenack on 11-04-2004 09:36 AM



SHADOWFIRE - MASTER CREATURE HANDLER / MASTER RIFLEMAN

TEMPEST MTK/MD - WANDERHOME MT/MM -???-???

"Creature Handlers are not 1% of the population, they are over the 50% mark, the 1% excuse is a flat out lie"
slave138
Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:04 am
#50






jopenack wrote:


Sio as Pluto said dont reply lol we need you in the sandbox :-)


looking at the jtl skill boxes for Pilot and I was told you cannot advance until you are 1/1/1/1 then tier 2 u need 2/2/2/2 before you can go to the 3rd tier of skills.....


seeing how they have designed the fs boxes where you need 4 columns of a skill to count towards the fs exit quest and initiate.


My theory is the profession skill trees may be changing dramatically. dabbling may be harder and people who have lets say medic 2/0/3/0 for better stims and higher heals (basically using up xtra points in a useful way) may find themselves unable to keep this system.


if my theory is true judging by what I seen the devs leaning to lately, then the frog would be the fix to this and apease the masses.


I agree with not allowing people to create the next uber profession instantly (if it will even be possible that is lol)


so to sum this up


we may not have a choice in the matter and it may be needed becuase the tree structures and how we shall be permitted to advance may change


this is just a theory I have, it isnot based on any facts so please dont start screaming dev nerf lol

but it may explain why the frog was even brought into this.



Message Edited by jopenack on 11-04-2004 09:36 AM



I hope your theory is wrong because it would strip away a lot of the individuality possible with the current system. My wish is that they will spread the abilities out in a way similar to how they handled CH. By making the gains smaller but better spread out through the profession, it gives actual improvements for masters over the dabblers while still allowing people to dabble if they really want. If they also moved the specials to the 4th tiers, it would cut back on a lot of the uber templates too.




~Ahnaki Obe
Adventurer
FORMER Master Carbineer | Freelance Flight Artist
CANCELLED


~Cayce Obe
Crafter
FORMER Master Artisan | Master Shipwright | Droid Engineer | Merchant
CANCELLED



jopenack
Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:33 am
#51

I hope i'm wrong too lol


and just a reminder TH did say in the combat upgrade thread that you would still be able to mix professions and points to create diverse characters. so hopefully I am wrong lol





SHADOWFIRE - MASTER CREATURE HANDLER / MASTER RIFLEMAN

TEMPEST MTK/MD - WANDERHOME MT/MM -???-???

"Creature Handlers are not 1% of the population, they are over the 50% mark, the 1% excuse is a flat out lie"
slave138
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:41 pm
#52

TH has said a lot of stuff that didn't happen the way he described it so I'm not all that optimistic...



~Ahnaki Obe
Adventurer
FORMER Master Carbineer | Freelance Flight Artist
CANCELLED


~Cayce Obe
Crafter
FORMER Master Artisan | Master Shipwright | Droid Engineer | Merchant
CANCELLED



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