Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Thunderhearts own words about the CH Nerf. (Also called The Great Lie)
hobieone
Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:32 pm
#41
i agrree with you on this.
it nice the dev wanted to balancing this with other combat proffesions but they also forgot to take in the non combat or hybrid profression thats not that strong in combat and a few of those player do take ch in order to be to do combat or hunt for bio resources for crafting which i that case hoses those classe from being effective in pve combat but those in combat professions with ch could get unbalanced which means the way they are doing it now is not the siolution to the problem. i think maybe what it should be is put the ch back to where it was originally but make it if at all possible regaurless of available skill point if you are in a proffession strong in combat likle tk,commando and such you cannot train even novice ch. only way to train is to dedicate your self to ch or scout or have any other non-combat proffesion like crafting or hybrid proffesion which struggle combat wise like smugglers. then see how the balance is. before making changes.
also way things are right nowif thers any thing that needs to be nerfed it those dang uber non ch pet that been popping up again likw cl10 slice hounds with 8 or 9k hams 60% kinetic resist dam 400 strong poison and such those should be on higher pets not the non ch ones those just defeat the point of ch in way.
but those to annoying bug mentioned in an abopve post definatly need to be addressed asap.
pets standing ontop of you and running away
it nice the dev wanted to balancing this with other combat proffesions but they also forgot to take in the non combat or hybrid profression thats not that strong in combat and a few of those player do take ch in order to be to do combat or hunt for bio resources for crafting which i that case hoses those classe from being effective in pve combat but those in combat professions with ch could get unbalanced which means the way they are doing it now is not the siolution to the problem. i think maybe what it should be is put the ch back to where it was originally but make it if at all possible regaurless of available skill point if you are in a proffession strong in combat likle tk,commando and such you cannot train even novice ch. only way to train is to dedicate your self to ch or scout or have any other non-combat proffesion like crafting or hybrid proffesion which struggle combat wise like smugglers. then see how the balance is. before making changes.
also way things are right nowif thers any thing that needs to be nerfed it those dang uber non ch pet that been popping up again likw cl10 slice hounds with 8 or 9k hams 60% kinetic resist dam 400 strong poison and such those should be on higher pets not the non ch ones those just defeat the point of ch in way.
but those to annoying bug mentioned in an abopve post definatly need to be addressed asap.
pets standing ontop of you and running away
hobieone
Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:35 pm
#42
oh, yes i'm a master smuggler but also a master ch and must say with out the pets i would be on very uneven ground combat wise with other proffesions and do not wan tto see anymore ch nerfs
Galacium
Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:26 pm
#43
Well.... If someone wants a challenge, I'd challenge anyone to out PVE my pets (no weapons or healing on my part) with any character with only one combat profession in use no medical etc.. and no buffs. They only class I can think of that could stand up to the challenge well would be rifleman using consealed shot so they dont get hit, TKA because meditate can get you into decent armor,or maybeswordsman, but only against lower to mid level opponents. With buffs, well then you can wear heavy composite and its a whole different ball game.
Seiryuu wrote:
Forget all the other stuff, Master CH before to Master CH post nerf, I do not think is THAT different...
If Creature Handler was your primary combat profession, there was quite a noticable difference.
I'm still waiting on someone that claims CH is not that bad off to store their weapons and go hunting with pets alone. Either no one has taken up my challenge or they did not want to return to admit how wrong they were.
atomicdog
Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:36 pm
#44
Seiryuu wrote:
I'm still waiting on someone that claims CH is not that bad off to store their weapons and go hunting with pets alone. Either no one has taken up my challenge or they did not want to return to admit how wrong they were.
I was MCH prior to the patch as well as after. I had given it up do to holo grinding, but am in the process to getting back to master. I will gladly use only creatures to hunt if I could get anyother profession to do the same without buffs.
The problem is not with CH's being under powered. The problem is most of the other professions in the game being over powered. With a good set of buffs, armor, and weapon almost any master combat profession can easily take out even the hardest MOBs in the game solo. CH should not be on equal ground as a commando or BH. and no single professtion should be able to solo high end content. CH has not changed much at the MCH level. It's the bugs exploites and unbalanced combat combos that make it seem as though it is.
In the very start of the game CH was extremly over powered. A single MCH could have out at one time 3 rancor, 1 probot (pre-neft) and 3 AT-ST's (pre-nerf) they could make short work on anything in the game.
People started to dabble with pets and everyone was running around with Cowardly Gurrecks CL 15 (no CH skills needed) or would take one or two lines and be able to get GSP or Grauls. At this point almost noone was getting buffed or wearing armor. With these pets people were able to still take out the most powerfull things in the game.
This lead to the dreaded CH nerf. Everyone lost their beloved pets. At this point everyone started getting buffed and using 80% comp armor prior to doing anything. Also people started tolook at professions and figured out dabbling in melee professions could make you nearly unhittable. Also that you could master rifleman and CM. Thus was born to of the most hated FotM combos.
What I am trying to point out is that CH is pretty much where it should be. But the rest of the combat system is out of wack. Dev's have given us promise of a combat revamp which one of the stated three sections has been implimented (creature changes). This put CH's in a disadvantage since their weapons are creatures. Granted the time frame for the re-vamp has been pushed back, but there in information already out there about armor and weapon changes that are upcoming.
For any of the CH's out there that have stayed with the profession and did not sell it off to chase holo's /salute. It come down to one thing NO profession should be powerfull enough to solo the highest content in the game nor should any be asking for it. Look at any of the forums though they all full of post wanting more power. Changes will happen wait for the combat re-vamp to be complete before trying to get more power. If you don't like how powerful your profession is then switch.
Wabit
Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:48 pm
#45
Seiryuu wrote:
Forget all the other stuff, Master CH before to Master CH post nerf, I do not think is THAT different...
If Creature Handler was your primary combat profession, there was quite a noticable difference.
I'm still waiting on someone that claims CH is not that bad off to store their weapons and go hunting with pets alone. Either no one has taken up my challenge or they did not want to return to admit how wrong they were.
actully on dath i'll do it... nightsister stalkers... i had no weapon that would do any damage againt them... so an embolden pets with either my 100% elec res kimo, or my 60% kin kittys... drop maybe 3 stems total and good to go...
TsiyaAma
Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:28 pm
#46
atomicdog wrote:
For any of the CH's out there that have stayed with the profession and did not sell it off to chase holo's /salute. It come down to one thing NO profession should be powerfull enough to solo the highest content in the game nor should any be asking for it. Look at any of the forums though they all full of post wanting more power. Changes will happen wait for the combat re-vamp to be complete before trying to get more power. If you don't like how powerful your profession is then switch.
ummm, we're not asking for more power, we're asking for the devs to a.) fix playstopping bugs that have been in the game for a YEAR now, and b.) for them to fix the things that used to work that they broke. Like our pets.
MCH since October.
Jediblues
Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:05 am
#47
Forget all the other stuff, Master CH before to Master CH post nerf, I do not think is THAT different, with the exception that I would like to see a few areas of change, mainly CH having a role again in the GCW and PVP.
P9M wrote:
Oh yeah Jedi,
I was not hurt at all. MCH, Master Medic, Rifles in Marksman and Sniper in Rifle. Nope my power did not decrease at all.
/sarcasm off
P9M
Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:10 am
#48
Wabit,
Interesting statement. You went away for 3 months. Come back to the same old whine. Maybe you can elaborate why you left? Because if it is gameplay in general nothing has changed. I know, because I have been here. And I am also leaving.
But the difference between myself and others is:
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I have waited too long for this game to escape Beta. A combat revamp suggest that combat itself is wrong in the way it works. If that is the case then we have bothered to learn to play a broken system. Paying for it all the while.
If you left because it is broke you will leave again. I used to see guys quit this one job and come back over and over again. It confuses me that anyone believes with the same people in charge that anything will ever change. I quit that job and I did not go back. I worked it as long as I needed. When the opportunity presented itself, I left. Now is the same for me, I realize the people in charge are the problem. This game has out lived its usefulness to me. It has for quite some time.
The problem is not exactly CH itself. Instead it is Rune, JustG and TH.
Interesting statement. You went away for 3 months. Come back to the same old whine. Maybe you can elaborate why you left? Because if it is gameplay in general nothing has changed. I know, because I have been here. And I am also leaving.
But the difference between myself and others is:
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I have waited too long for this game to escape Beta. A combat revamp suggest that combat itself is wrong in the way it works. If that is the case then we have bothered to learn to play a broken system. Paying for it all the while.
If you left because it is broke you will leave again. I used to see guys quit this one job and come back over and over again. It confuses me that anyone believes with the same people in charge that anything will ever change. I quit that job and I did not go back. I worked it as long as I needed. When the opportunity presented itself, I left. Now is the same for me, I realize the people in charge are the problem. This game has out lived its usefulness to me. It has for quite some time.
The problem is not exactly CH itself. Instead it is Rune, JustG and TH.
Seiryuu
Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:11 am
#49
Are the stalkers using weapons and force powers again or is this against the broken AI?
JodoKai
Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:52 am
#50
Skypreacher,
First CH is my main profession, 2nd I have a brain do you? 3rd this is the tough one and since your intelligence is in question I'll use little words: CH wasn't nerfed the monsters were nerfed across the board. What the you think the devs said "Let's just make the pets that CH's own less powerful and keep the others the same." ? That's what you believe? ALL CREATURES WERE NERFED. How was that? that get though? Yes this did make CH weaker in PvP, but since that is such a small part of the CH I barely felt it.
You know it's people like you that make commuication with the DEV's so difficullt. The Devs say what they are trying to do and hope to accomplish, and you flame them if it doesn't go exactly the way it was intended. That's when the devs say "I shoulda just kept my mouth shut." Whenever a dev needs to give people a reason why they don't communicate more, they can just direct them to this thread. You b!tch when a dev gets something wrong, the you b!tch when the devs don't say anything.
I'm not a "voice of the Devs" I'm just someone who uses a little common sense and a little logic, you should try it. I will make you happy though I will leave this thread, thinking down to your level hurts.
To the more intelligent people trying to make this profession better, I apologize for the flame war this has turned into.
First CH is my main profession, 2nd I have a brain do you? 3rd this is the tough one and since your intelligence is in question I'll use little words: CH wasn't nerfed the monsters were nerfed across the board. What the you think the devs said "Let's just make the pets that CH's own less powerful and keep the others the same." ? That's what you believe? ALL CREATURES WERE NERFED. How was that? that get though? Yes this did make CH weaker in PvP, but since that is such a small part of the CH I barely felt it.
You know it's people like you that make commuication with the DEV's so difficullt. The Devs say what they are trying to do and hope to accomplish, and you flame them if it doesn't go exactly the way it was intended. That's when the devs say "I shoulda just kept my mouth shut." Whenever a dev needs to give people a reason why they don't communicate more, they can just direct them to this thread. You b!tch when a dev gets something wrong, the you b!tch when the devs don't say anything.
I'm not a "voice of the Devs" I'm just someone who uses a little common sense and a little logic, you should try it. I will make you happy though I will leave this thread, thinking down to your level hurts.
To the more intelligent people trying to make this profession better, I apologize for the flame war this has turned into.
P9M
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:24 pm
#51
First things first, Wabit as a vet I can understand the Uncle Same things. 7 years of wanting to be all I could be and all I got was they let me be what they wanted me to be. Army of One is pretty much a laugh. Not that one person cannot make a difference but in that someone else is always there to dictate when you take a squat.
Jodokai, not that I feel I have to deend Sky, but if you take the initial post for what its worth, you were the first to flame anyone by doubting my reading comprehension abilities. I have no doubt that I fall within the top 5-10% of intelligent people on the boards. I have never done less on any standardized test. My IQ is 165, putting me quite a few standard deviations from the norm. I feel as though it is you making the wrong statements that the Devs take to heart. People like you saying nothing is wrong at all makes it harder to spread the word about what is wrong. It is one thing to say "I know we are broken but I am waiting for the Combat Rebalance" and another to say "nothing is wrong at all".
Like Sky stated, if you only have CH as your main source of combat then you did see a difference in the CH nerf. Whether the combat rebalance fixes that or not is not the point. The point is that we were told we would be imbalanced for a month or two. It is now 7+ months and we are still imbalanced. A CH means nothing in combat.
Gala, you maybe be right in part. But I guarantee you that with a CL10 monstrosity and any template you choose that I can out damage you with all skills combined. BH, Pistoleer (Fanshot), Rifleman (concealed). TKA or swordsman do not need the pets. We can probably do PVE test on Dant with buffs and armor I can do it with Commbado and LLC Cone2. I have not seen the BH changes so I can only infer I could do it before I quit. My CL01 Blurrg has 12K ham and great resists.
Anyone who does not like me calling the Devs liars should take note:
lie
n.
(a)A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
(b) Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
li·ar
n.
One that tells lies.
It was deliberately present to us that Master Level CH Would not change. Where is medium armor? Any masters see it on their pets today? Any masters able to control 3 GSP's? Any Masters able to control any pets that do not fall in seconds to someone who knows what they are doing? There is deceit in what TH presented. Whether he knowingly did it or not, it still remains a falsehood.
TH is a liar. TH does not like CH. TH has not spoken in this forum in over a year. TH knows he is guilty. TH is ashamed (and should be). TH has not been a real player since he got a paycheck or he would assure us that he did not know it would turn out so bad for CH. This in itself, is the one true crime of CH. He has lost the perspective of the player and cannot identify with the Player. He is a Company Boy now. I hope that he gets down on his knees every night and begs forgiveness. Because God may be the only true CH who will.
Jodokai, not that I feel I have to deend Sky, but if you take the initial post for what its worth, you were the first to flame anyone by doubting my reading comprehension abilities. I have no doubt that I fall within the top 5-10% of intelligent people on the boards. I have never done less on any standardized test. My IQ is 165, putting me quite a few standard deviations from the norm. I feel as though it is you making the wrong statements that the Devs take to heart. People like you saying nothing is wrong at all makes it harder to spread the word about what is wrong. It is one thing to say "I know we are broken but I am waiting for the Combat Rebalance" and another to say "nothing is wrong at all".
Like Sky stated, if you only have CH as your main source of combat then you did see a difference in the CH nerf. Whether the combat rebalance fixes that or not is not the point. The point is that we were told we would be imbalanced for a month or two. It is now 7+ months and we are still imbalanced. A CH means nothing in combat.
Gala, you maybe be right in part. But I guarantee you that with a CL10 monstrosity and any template you choose that I can out damage you with all skills combined. BH, Pistoleer (Fanshot), Rifleman (concealed). TKA or swordsman do not need the pets. We can probably do PVE test on Dant with buffs and armor I can do it with Commbado and LLC Cone2. I have not seen the BH changes so I can only infer I could do it before I quit. My CL01 Blurrg has 12K ham and great resists.
Anyone who does not like me calling the Devs liars should take note:
lie
n.
(a)A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
(b) Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
li·ar
n.
One that tells lies.
It was deliberately present to us that Master Level CH Would not change. Where is medium armor? Any masters see it on their pets today? Any masters able to control 3 GSP's? Any Masters able to control any pets that do not fall in seconds to someone who knows what they are doing? There is deceit in what TH presented. Whether he knowingly did it or not, it still remains a falsehood.
TH is a liar. TH does not like CH. TH has not spoken in this forum in over a year. TH knows he is guilty. TH is ashamed (and should be). TH has not been a real player since he got a paycheck or he would assure us that he did not know it would turn out so bad for CH. This in itself, is the one true crime of CH. He has lost the perspective of the player and cannot identify with the Player. He is a Company Boy now. I hope that he gets down on his knees every night and begs forgiveness. Because God may be the only true CH who will.
ResourceMonkey
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:19 pm
#52
P9M wrote:
It was deliberately present to us that Master Level CH Would not change. Where is medium armor? Any masters see it on their pets today? Any masters able to control 3 GSP's? Any Masters able to control any pets that do not fall in seconds to someone who knows what they are doing? There is deceit in what TH presented. Whether he knowingly did it or not, it still remains a falsehood.
I didn't check on the 3 GSP promise - but if you could show me where it says that the Master Level CH wouldn't change? It said that the power would be reserved for the MCH but not that it wouldn't change. And, for the life of me, I can't find a mention about Medium Armor in the post either. I think this is a case of reading more into the post in hopes of getting more than was stated.
Will be right back with a search for the 3 GSP. - Came back - can't find the guarantee for 3GSP for the Master CH.
Just gettin' technical after you got the definition out...
Message Edited by ResourceMonkey on 07-12-2004 04:21 PM
Message Edited by ResourceMonkey on 07-12-2004 04:22 PM