Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Thunderhearts own words about the CH Nerf. (Also called The Great Lie)
Page 5 of 5
JodoKai
Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:13 pm
#53
P9M,
After re-reading my inital post you the reading comprehnsion comment came out a lot harsher than I intended it to be, for that I apologize...as well as for other insults that were slung.
The problem boils down to this: I like the role CH plays right now. I don't want CH to be another straight combat profession like Pistoleer and TKA. I like the Creatures help me fight. This has been discussed in another thread, but the general agreement to both sides of the fence is that you can't make CH as powerful or combat ready, if you will, because you can use creatues while using your pistoleer skills, or TKA skills. There have been some logical ways around this, like CH's have to have a riding crop type device out as long as their pets are fighting. This would prevent them from being able to use a pistol at the same time. This seems logically and am willing to accept and respect that some people have this opinion. My feeling is that I would HATE this. I want to fight a long side my pet. I want it to charge with me into battle. I don't want to sit back while it fights my battles for me. Now, like I said, this is my opinion this is how I want CH to be, but I accept that everyone doesn't want to play like me.
When people come to the boards and bash devs becasue the devs haven't made the profession the way THEY want it, it strikes a cord. Like I said before, a lot of people only conccen themselves with thier one profession and want it to be the best at everything regardless of the big picture, and how everything balances out.
What I said about the Devs being afraid to say anything is absolutly true though. They'd rather people complain about lack of communication than be called liars because things didn't work out the way they wanted it to, or something took longer than it was supposed to. Just remember the Devs aren't sitting around thinking up ways to make people hate the game.
After re-reading my inital post you the reading comprehnsion comment came out a lot harsher than I intended it to be, for that I apologize...as well as for other insults that were slung.
The problem boils down to this: I like the role CH plays right now. I don't want CH to be another straight combat profession like Pistoleer and TKA. I like the Creatures help me fight. This has been discussed in another thread, but the general agreement to both sides of the fence is that you can't make CH as powerful or combat ready, if you will, because you can use creatues while using your pistoleer skills, or TKA skills. There have been some logical ways around this, like CH's have to have a riding crop type device out as long as their pets are fighting. This would prevent them from being able to use a pistol at the same time. This seems logically and am willing to accept and respect that some people have this opinion. My feeling is that I would HATE this. I want to fight a long side my pet. I want it to charge with me into battle. I don't want to sit back while it fights my battles for me. Now, like I said, this is my opinion this is how I want CH to be, but I accept that everyone doesn't want to play like me.
When people come to the boards and bash devs becasue the devs haven't made the profession the way THEY want it, it strikes a cord. Like I said before, a lot of people only conccen themselves with thier one profession and want it to be the best at everything regardless of the big picture, and how everything balances out.
What I said about the Devs being afraid to say anything is absolutly true though. They'd rather people complain about lack of communication than be called liars because things didn't work out the way they wanted it to, or something took longer than it was supposed to. Just remember the Devs aren't sitting around thinking up ways to make people hate the game.
digiwrath
Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:19 pm
#54
JodoKai wrote:
P9M,
After re-reading my inital post you the reading comprehnsion comment came out a lot harsher than I intended it to be, for that I apologize...as well as for other insults that were slung.
The problem boils down to this: I like the role CH plays right now. I don't want CH to be another straight combat profession like Pistoleer and TKA. I like the Creatures help me fight. This has been discussed in another thread, but the general agreement to both sides of the fence is that you can't make CH as powerful or combat ready, if you will, because you can use creatues while using your pistoleer skills, or TKA skills. There have been some logical ways around this, like CH's have to have a riding crop type device out as long as their pets are fighting. This would prevent them from being able to use a pistol at the same time. This seems logically and am willing to accept and respect that some people have this opinion. My feeling is that I would HATE this. I want to fight a long side my pet. I want it to charge with me into battle. I don't want to sit back while it fights my battles for me. Now, like I said, this is my opinion this is how I want CH to be, but I accept that everyone doesn't want to play like me.
When people come to the boards and bash devs becasue the devs haven't made the profession the way THEY want it, it strikes a cord. Like I said before, a lot of people only conccen themselves with thier one profession and want it to be the best at everything regardless of the big picture, and how everything balances out.
What I said about the Devs being afraid to say anything is absolutly true though. They'd rather people complain about lack of communication than be called liars because things didn't work out the way they wanted it to, or something took longer than it was supposed to. Just remember the Devs aren't sitting around thinking up ways to make people hate the game.
THAT i can agree with.
except maybe, for the very last sentence 
Ghostlion
Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:48 pm
#55
(I dunno why I typed all of this out. When I was done typing, I wondered where my point had gone I've been around for ages, and before it was apparent that TH hated us, we had Holocron... Who also seemed to hate us. It was probably just me, but it seemed like everything they said in regards to CH had hidden malice. But then look what they did to us.)
I've been around for ages, and before it was apparent that TH hated us, we had Holocron... Who also seemed to hate us. It was probably just me, but it seemed like everything they said in regards to CH had hidden malice. But then look what they did to us.)I've been a MCH since July of 03. I used to be a MCH and Master Entertainer with no combat skills of note aside from novice pistoleer. My FWG really didn't do much at the time as I didn't know any good weaponsmiths. My pets did all the work; making me money from missions, protecting me while I ran all over hell and creation exploring or looking for specific erm... things, or just running from my house to Theed. I was able to throw the odd bleed on the mobs, but I only had the one bleed shot.
Yeah, I wasn't a very good MCH, I didn't play very often and I spent a lot of time dancing, playing instruments, or giving facials I also didn't grind, so it took me longer than most to get xp.
I also didn't grind, so it took me longer than most to get xp.When the first big CH nerf hit, I really didn't get to know what I missed because it happened relatively soon after I hit MCH. Also, I had no clue where to find Gurrecksbecause my friend had made me kind of scared to go to Endor without a big group, and I didn't know many people. I couldn't get a Rancor because I wasn't very good at sneaking up on them (grauls too) So I had a bunch of non aggressive pets like a Giant Peko and a set of Grand Wrixes. I was kind of upset, but I'd only just tamed my first Gurreck when the nerf hit so didn't really get to experience what the other MCHs had lost. The creatures themselves had not been hurt that I knew of, so I still had some fairly powerful creatures at my disposal once I learned how to sneak and tame the nasty critters properly.
Then the creature nerfs came. My once proud pets were now hobbled and lamed and I was a beautician that could dance and play a girlie guitar I dropped entertainer and pistoleer and started working on the rest of the marksman tree. I figured that if they were going to lame my pets, I was going to have to take up the slack. Oh I bitched and yelled in the forums, but the only real thing I could do was roll with the punch and turn the other cheek in game. As soon as I was able, I picked up Novice BH so that I could keep my pets from dying so quickly. Worked fairly well, I must say. I was doing far more damage than my pets, but they were attacking much faster than I so the damage I was doing probably only just outweighed theirs. After a while, I got bored and decided to take my friend's path. He was a MCH/Novice commando. He would usually have things half dead before his pets could do that much to the enemy. It's a neat path, but I miss master scout/novice ranger so I'm dropping it in favor of a new elite combat class, but it's slow going because my pets really do take a beating when I can't back them up with heavy firepower.
I dropped entertainer and pistoleer and started working on the rest of the marksman tree. I figured that if they were going to lame my pets, I was going to have to take up the slack. Oh I bitched and yelled in the forums, but the only real thing I could do was roll with the punch and turn the other cheek in game. As soon as I was able, I picked up Novice BH so that I could keep my pets from dying so quickly. Worked fairly well, I must say. I was doing far more damage than my pets, but they were attacking much faster than I so the damage I was doing probably only just outweighed theirs. After a while, I got bored and decided to take my friend's path. He was a MCH/Novice commando. He would usually have things half dead before his pets could do that much to the enemy. It's a neat path, but I miss master scout/novice ranger so I'm dropping it in favor of a new elite combat class, but it's slow going because my pets really do take a beating when I can't back them up with heavy firepower.
taloncard
Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:41 pm
#56
A good summary pluto but you left out a very important quote for the lies
"Masters will feel almost no effects of the change as all the changes are to the trees and not the master Skills" or something to that effect.
As for galactium saying he challenges anyone to PvP his pets.
Ok Master rifleman vs a rancor 3 shots rancor dead 0 buffs rancor never got near me
Vs 2 GM's and a BE'ed Kadu GM's gone in 2 shots Kaduu took 1 more and the 2 CH's got hit in the AOE effects: buffs to me 0 wearing a set of ubese armor.
Even as a Master CH I laughed when someone brought out a pet for PvP.
These changes succeeded in eliminateing not only dabblers but many masters who found much better use of SP.
I was a Novice rifle, Novice Pistol, MCH as my combat. Post Nerf I got my ass kicked constantly becuase the AI would attack me more than my pets. CH went from being slightly overpowered to woefully underpowered in one swing of the bat, then as buffs and uber armor hit the scene, Useless and hated.
"Masters will feel almost no effects of the change as all the changes are to the trees and not the master Skills" or something to that effect.
As for galactium saying he challenges anyone to PvP his pets.
Ok Master rifleman vs a rancor 3 shots rancor dead 0 buffs rancor never got near me
Vs 2 GM's and a BE'ed Kadu GM's gone in 2 shots Kaduu took 1 more and the 2 CH's got hit in the AOE effects: buffs to me 0 wearing a set of ubese armor.
Even as a Master CH I laughed when someone brought out a pet for PvP.
These changes succeeded in eliminateing not only dabblers but many masters who found much better use of SP.
I was a Novice rifle, Novice Pistol, MCH as my combat. Post Nerf I got my ass kicked constantly becuase the AI would attack me more than my pets. CH went from being slightly overpowered to woefully underpowered in one swing of the bat, then as buffs and uber armor hit the scene, Useless and hated.
FR33K
Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:50 pm
#57
digiwrath wrote:
JodoKai wrote:
Like I said I was a Master CH when this patch came out and nothing really changed for me. I am just as powerful now as I was before the patch.
that says more aboutyou than it does about ch.
think about it for a little bit.
AH HAHAHAHAHHAHHA!!!! OWNED!!!
No doubt bro. I was a FORCE to be reckoned with in PvE and PvP. During raids, CH'ers were targeted and quickly destroyed if at all possible, otherwise our pets ate everyone. I was invited to all hunting groups and raids just because of the title displayed over my head. Damn, I remember makin MILLIONS in pet sales.
After the patch? Hell, when's the last time you saw an animal in PvP? Or in the krayt graveyards, or anywhere except standing by a mission terminal or helping jedi get extra XP while grinding. All I see are dabblers. MCH'ers are holo grinders or very old ones like me ('cuz we're stubborn).
Were we Too Powerful? Well... yeah. But they needed to make MCH still viable in PvE AND PvP. They didn't do either. Pets should've been made more costly to maintain, got used up faster (like comparable weapons). Instead, we were nerfed to oblivion.
But, there won't be any more fixes to CH, cuz for some reason, the devs consider it revamped, balanced, and working.
Seiryuu
Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:15 pm
#58
Holocron was definately not out to get Creature Handlers. This profession was his baby and we lost an advocate when he got promoted off SWG.
ratlif
Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:19 am
#59
Aside from everything else that is bothering us ( pet resist, BE profession bugs that started our nerf, etc )
Is the only good wild pets now really are the rare hard to find ones. Which isn't so bad but something has to be done about the storage space for our pets.
I have about 2 pets I can fight with, the rest are crap low level rare mounts and rare pets that you just don't wont to fight with.
Some option needs to be put in game that allows a "stable feature" which has been mentioned plenty of times before.
Another thing is I had to turn down so many people for training their pets because again, too many pets in datapad.
They need to add something here to allow us to train a players pet with out having to delete one of our own, or take 10 minutes trying to trade back and forth our pets so we can just tame theirs.
Again we are screaming on deaf ears until this new game of Jedi Galaxies is implimented with publish 10/11
Is the only good wild pets now really are the rare hard to find ones. Which isn't so bad but something has to be done about the storage space for our pets.
I have about 2 pets I can fight with, the rest are crap low level rare mounts and rare pets that you just don't wont to fight with.
Some option needs to be put in game that allows a "stable feature" which has been mentioned plenty of times before.
Another thing is I had to turn down so many people for training their pets because again, too many pets in datapad.
They need to add something here to allow us to train a players pet with out having to delete one of our own, or take 10 minutes trying to trade back and forth our pets so we can just tame theirs.
Again we are screaming on deaf ears until this new game of Jedi Galaxies is implimented with publish 10/11
Gyorgy
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:38 am
#60
Well, i have started with CH just after the big nerf, so i can't really tell how it was before. But what i quickly realized is the following:
1. Natural pets are useless compared to BEs (except those with special attacks BEs can never have) --> Who will ever buy pets from a mch except they are VERY rare (and even those don't go for more than 200k most of the time now, and 200k are peanuts if you ask me for the work (pet stims) you have to invest to find/tame one).
2. You can't really earn money with training pets of other players either cause most people don't even expect you to ask for money if you do so --> What do you have to do then to earn money? Doing missions of course...
So, just compare the usefulness of a mch with a lvl 70 at best to a master rifleman or pistoleer for example. I mean i hope nobody thinks that a lvl 70 pet with let's say 13k HAM, light armor, a few nice resists (maybe some even at 100 that those other fighter professions can easily go around by using the wide variety of different damage type weapons available), maybe 600 attack at best and some specials (that might never hit or just one time if you are lucky) can ever defeat a master rifleman or pistoleer. And now add 80 kin comp armor to the fighter professions as well and there you got your wonderful balance (talk about the right benefit for your skill points compared to others).
Of course you could say it is fun having pets, running around with them, taming new ones and stuff. So, if you say ch is no real fighter profession what is it then? A creature merchant profession? Hardly, with useless tamable creatures and low demand on training or mounting pets for other players. So, the only use of it should be that the pet fights FOR you and not just WITH you primarily. I mean you can't tell a merchant that whines that his skills granted by his profession are to weak for fighting to do pistoleer and that will solve everything. You can always do another profession besides mch or whatever you want (that's what this system is all about). BUT you can't expect people to do so for several reasons just to MAKE a certain profession useful in combat (in our case).
So ifassuming CH is a fighter profession which is hardly deniable due to the things stated before ...it should at least be equivalent in value to other fighter professions (since mch needs 106 skill points compared to just 92 for most other master fighter profs).
And if devs now say that it will all get better with next combat revamps (since ch nerf was just one part of that in advance already). Then i really have to say that this is the most noobish approach i've ever seen. Nerfing one profession MONTHS before the real combat revamp for all fighter professions is released???
I know my theories might not be 100% bullet proof but that's how i see it. Determining the value of a profession is hard enough anyways due to too many factors inside the game. But i do think that CH is NOT worth 106 Skill points like it is right now.
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