Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Time to demand some answers to our questions? Most definately...
SkyPreacher1
Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:10 pm
#27
Brylin
Do us all a favor and read the manual.
Under ADVANCED Combat Profession is Creature Handler. End of story.
Up to December I was a musician/MCH and I soloed enraged rancors with my pets, no other combat profession needed thank you. End of story.
They did not run, they did not autostore, i didn't wait 15 seconds to pull them out, they stayed on target and they stayed with me. Ummm I believe Brawler is one of the skills need to master CH. Anyway like I said you are irrelevant to this discussion as you have nothing of worth to say.
Keep up the good work spreadsheet. By the way some of those issues date back to beta and are still here. Just FYI.
Aakhperkare
Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:14 pm
#28
Thought I should mention, this is not a thread to suggest that Vert isn't doing his job. I believe you are trying Vert, but we are ALL just being flat-out ignored...
Seiryuu
Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:13 am
#29
These three have mostly been fixed. There are still a few specials that do not work (3). Riflemen can still use snipershot to cause a deathblow and so far it looks like the PvP change is for factional combat as well, but it is too new to know for sure (8).
3. The new Ranged and Special Attack commands do not appear to work. Pet must be at melee range and not in combat for special attack on demand commands to work. Pets never use ranged attacks under any conditions
4. Pets that have been trained as Mounts will not follow their master
8. Remove pet vitality loss from factional deaths, to be consistent with normal item decay rules
Wait wait wait wait WAIT......
Just so I'm clear here.
You're saying "go drop ALL combat capability and go fight the biggest baddest creature in the game. With no combat abilities"????
You're aware of how dumb that sounds, right?
Why is it dumb that a combat profession that has higher prequisites than Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer, Swordsman, Pikeman, Fencer or TKA be as powerful as these?
You should try it. Use your pets without any of your other combat skills. Then use your combat skills without your pets. Let us know how you fair in normal gameplay doing this.
3. The new Ranged and Special Attack commands do not appear to work. Pet must be at melee range and not in combat for special attack on demand commands to work. Pets never use ranged attacks under any conditions
4. Pets that have been trained as Mounts will not follow their master
8. Remove pet vitality loss from factional deaths, to be consistent with normal item decay rules
Wait wait wait wait WAIT......
Just so I'm clear here.
You're saying "go drop ALL combat capability and go fight the biggest baddest creature in the game. With no combat abilities"????
You're aware of how dumb that sounds, right?
Why is it dumb that a combat profession that has higher prequisites than Rifleman, Pistoleer, Carbineer, Swordsman, Pikeman, Fencer or TKA be as powerful as these?
You should try it. Use your pets without any of your other combat skills. Then use your combat skills without your pets. Let us know how you fair in normal gameplay doing this.
Pluto9Moon
Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:34 am
#30
Dear Mr. One Star Bandit,
It is with great trepidation that I bother replying. Your whole tone is very inflammatory. The CH forum is and always will be the most passionate forum in SWG. You have not had to endure the Nerfs. We CH were never GODLIKE, with that in mind we did not deserve the Nerfs. We were the one class that knew how to play our style of play. Buffs and uber armor have now placed every other class over us. We are meaningless in the spirit of playability. The supposed combat rebalance has come way too late. The Devs said they wanted to make sure they got it right. Pardon me if I point out it is much too late to get it right since they started with us and made us the laughing stock of SWG.
The combat reblance must come now. The Devs are complete idiots to think that this argument about getting it right will be forgotten by CH. The fact you do not see this means little to me personally. The fact you do not see this and try to attack those who do remember points out how little you really know. The CH forum can be a very nasty place to reside.
Let me point out that if you find nothing wrong with the game go play it. We CH who frequent the forum have poured our hearts and souls into perfecting it, veteran or otherwise. You want to seem so self righteous and superior. Let me point out that you saw a fire and jumped into it. Offer some reasonable and constructive alternative. You may have a right to be wrong in your opinion, but you do not have a right to be wrong in facts. The fact is many CH have lived through these Nerfs and we realize what we give up by holding onto a useless profession.
It is with great trepidation that I bother replying. Your whole tone is very inflammatory. The CH forum is and always will be the most passionate forum in SWG. You have not had to endure the Nerfs. We CH were never GODLIKE, with that in mind we did not deserve the Nerfs. We were the one class that knew how to play our style of play. Buffs and uber armor have now placed every other class over us. We are meaningless in the spirit of playability. The supposed combat rebalance has come way too late. The Devs said they wanted to make sure they got it right. Pardon me if I point out it is much too late to get it right since they started with us and made us the laughing stock of SWG.
The combat reblance must come now. The Devs are complete idiots to think that this argument about getting it right will be forgotten by CH. The fact you do not see this means little to me personally. The fact you do not see this and try to attack those who do remember points out how little you really know. The CH forum can be a very nasty place to reside.
Let me point out that if you find nothing wrong with the game go play it. We CH who frequent the forum have poured our hearts and souls into perfecting it, veteran or otherwise. You want to seem so self righteous and superior. Let me point out that you saw a fire and jumped into it. Offer some reasonable and constructive alternative. You may have a right to be wrong in your opinion, but you do not have a right to be wrong in facts. The fact is many CH have lived through these Nerfs and we realize what we give up by holding onto a useless profession.
Message Edited by Pluto9Moon on 07-01-2004 03:35 PM
Aakhperkare
Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:40 am
#31
Brilyn. Couldn't care less really for what you have to say. And one-starring...don't really make you very cool, dude...infact it makes you incredibly lame to think it would have an adverse affect upon anyone...
...moving on...
If enough of us start PMing red names, requesting some feedback on these issues, and keeping threads like this alive, and get more aggressive with each post, we will be heard. In truth. There is two things the devs respond to.
Coddling, and outrage. We can try coddling and being nice, then slowly move into outrage the longer we are ignored.
I suggest you send a PM to a different red name each day, asking for feedback on our list of issues. I already started...
StylerNaku
Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:01 am
#32
This has gone on far enough.
DEVS answer if not all the question or some...perhaps maybe just this one.
When are you going to address us..at all. You cannot pretend we are not here. I have seen you post replies on every other board. What is going on.
Styler Naku MCH, MS.
StylerNaku
Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:21 am
#33
And DEVS..Further more....
You state that you provide technical suporrt for the people who play this game.
Not answering spawn rates, or answering questions about more species to tame is one thing...
But not answering the bugs...is quit another, when everyone else seems to get sorted, this is in fact a breech of contract and sale. You set up this forum for help and never say anything.....why because we are here for your amusement?
I think the valid is threat of uprising comes from this, give us a moment of your time, just one of you...or suffer customers dropping from your subscription list. When that gets out why people are leaving it won't look good for you, what with games like WoW comming about and what ever else...
I'm going to start askign all the MCH's I know to visit this forum, soon someone will notice your not doing your job, I promie you!
Styler Naku MCH, MS.
BlindTyldak
Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:36 am
#34
I was actually having this discussion with someone the other day in game, about the difference between a want list and true issues, because it does seem that for many people, what they consider to be an issue is simply something that they want. Storage space is a perfect example. It's already been increased once. People want it increased more. That's a want, not an issue. The lack of tamable babies under 70. That's borderline, because we know it was suppposed to be increased and it wasn't. But on the other hand, there's approximately 250 tamable babies in the game already. We really DON'T need more tamable babies. We need more USEFUL tamables, so that we can have something to our profession that's independantly useful apart from our BE cousins.
I do think that we should limit our focus on the bugs, not the wants. Autostoring. Pets overlapping your avatar and affecting visibility and targeting. Pets not listening. Pets running. Pets not healing correctly. Commands not working reliably. BE leveled pets outsripping us of any business due to the broken confirmation code or whatever that is (yes, that's their bug, but it affects us just as much). More animals, more mountables, corrals, stables, placing pets on the bazaar, those are WANTS, not bugs. You have to think of that dreaded Dev term, "working as intended". If its not "working as intended", that's what we need to talk to them about.
Aakhperkare
Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:05 am
#35
Galacium wrote:
My point is that many of the squeaky wheels here need to learn how to ask questions designed to get usefull awnsers. If you just make statements you arn't likely to get a responce. Walk up to someone on the street and simly say "I don't know what time it is." THey will likely look at you funny. Walk up and say "Sir can you tell me what time it is please?" and you are likely to find out what time it is. This thread is called "demand some answers to our questions". If you don't actualy have questions you can't get answers. I'm trying to help, if you think its nit-picking then good luck to you.
Seiryuu wrote:
This is not a question.
Tack "Will this ever be addressed?" on to every one of those if you want to nit-pick.
Obviously you do though as you show you show you are more concerned with phrasing than the spirit and your rebuttal basically boils down to "deal with it, fixing issues is not worthwhile".
.
Are you inept or something, or just want to cause problems? That is a list of issues collaborated by our correspondent. If you really need them formulated in the form of a question, you can do that quite well on your own, if not, too bad. End of story, go spout your meaningless drivel elsewhere.
taloncard
Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:27 am
#36
Galacium wrote:My point is that many of the squeaky wheels here need to learn how to ask questions designed to get usefull awnsers. If you just make statements you arn't likely to get a responce. Walk up to someone on the street and simly say "I don't know what time it is." THey will likely look at you funny. Walk up and say "Sir can you tell me what time it is please?" and you are likely to find out what time it is. This thread is called "demand some answers to our questions". If you don't actualy have questions you can't get answers. I'm trying to help, if you think its nit-picking then good luck to you.
Seiryuu wrote:
This is not a question.
Tack "Will this ever be addressed?" on to every one of those if you want to nit-pick.
Obviously you do though as you show you show you are more concerned with phrasing than the spirit and your rebuttal basically boils down to "deal with it, fixing issues is not worthwhile".
.
I will give you that you are trying to help.
However that list was a general list. When we posed questions to the devs and TH, we mad them so specific that they were practaly Yes or No answers.
Ya know what we got as an answer to our questions?
Long paragraphs that basically restated our question without answereing them.
CH used to be a very powerful Combat class that had the rare privliadge of having a sub economy selling pets. Our power is to the level that a tamed pet cannot survive combat against a identical wild. Everything that was given to us if it works it doesn't work consistently. The people that state they get special commands to work have a looping macro constantly barking those to get them to work.
Our creatures were "balanced" in december in line with a now scrapped combat revamp. They have made creatures so weak that a novice brawler fully buffed and in armor can solo almost anything except the UBER animals (krayts, Gorax etc....) check the galaxy boards and you will see people cheering they soloed Gorax'es a creature which is supposed to kick ass and take names.
To the armorsmith. What if they decide to make it that Armor's highest resists will be 20% and the encumberance remains the same. How many people are still gonna buy your armor at 350K for a full suit for that? That is what was done to us with the "revamp" our creature resists went from 75% on some types to a max of 30% for wild tames and BE's can (if they work their ass off) get those resists to 60% with their creations but then face the problem of having the devs call it an invalid pet that was never ment to be.
If CH wasn't a combat profession, then killing creatures with our pets wouldn't be the way to get CH xp.
Galacium
Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:05 pm
#37
My point is that many of the squeaky wheels here need to learn how to ask questions designed to get usefull awnsers. If you just make statements you arn't likely to get a responce. Walk up to someone on the street and simly say "I don't know what time it is." THey will likely look at you funny. Walk up and say "Sir can you tell me what time it is please?" and you are likely to find out what time it is. This thread is called "demand some answers to our questions". If you don't actualy have questions you can't get answers. I'm trying to help, if you think its nit-picking then good luck to you.
Seiryuu wrote:
This is not a question.
Tack "Will this ever be addressed?" on to every one of those if you want to nit-pick.
Obviously you do though as you show you show you are more concerned with phrasing than the spirit and your rebuttal basically boils down to "deal with it, fixing issues is not worthwhile".
.
Seiryuu
Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:05 pm
#38
Claiming that CH is a combat profession is just plain daft. It makes no sense.
"Creature Handler is a combat profession" - Raph Coster June 2003
That was the response given to beta testers about what whether we were a combat profession, a social profession, collector or some sort of hybrid. The devs seem to think it is a combat profession and they have yet to claim differently. Regardless of what I want it to be, that is how it is classified.
All of the creature commands revolve around combat. So the only thing daft is that we cannot effectively participate in combat.
Even then, Smuggler, Commando, TK and a couple others use MUCH more than that.
TKA requires 92 points, like the other six advanced combat professions. All of them are more effective than Creature Handler at combat and require only one line as a prequisite.
The only ones that require more skills points are BH, Commando, Smuggler and the weird hybrid of Combat Medic. They should be stronger and I don't dispute that (or at least CM should be as effective, if not as deadly). Smuggler requires 15 more points than a CH due to the second novice profession.
Based on skill points that means TKA = Fencer = Swordsman = Pikeman = Rifleman = Pistoleer = Carbineer < Creature Handler < Smuggler < Combat Medic ~ BH = Commando. These do not necessarily need to be equal in raw combat power but in effectiveness. As Creature Handler have nothing else, that pretty much means combat power.
Those other profession also have the advantage of being able to pick up other combat skills they are lacking without a significant point expenditure, especially the hybrids. We don't.
So why aren't we at least equal to the seven advanced professions? We have a fraction of their power yet we are classified as combat and pay more skill points for the priviledge.
"Creature Handler is a combat profession" - Raph Coster June 2003
That was the response given to beta testers about what whether we were a combat profession, a social profession, collector or some sort of hybrid. The devs seem to think it is a combat profession and they have yet to claim differently. Regardless of what I want it to be, that is how it is classified.
All of the creature commands revolve around combat. So the only thing daft is that we cannot effectively participate in combat.
Even then, Smuggler, Commando, TK and a couple others use MUCH more than that.
TKA requires 92 points, like the other six advanced combat professions. All of them are more effective than Creature Handler at combat and require only one line as a prequisite.
The only ones that require more skills points are BH, Commando, Smuggler and the weird hybrid of Combat Medic. They should be stronger and I don't dispute that (or at least CM should be as effective, if not as deadly). Smuggler requires 15 more points than a CH due to the second novice profession.
Based on skill points that means TKA = Fencer = Swordsman = Pikeman = Rifleman = Pistoleer = Carbineer < Creature Handler < Smuggler < Combat Medic ~ BH = Commando. These do not necessarily need to be equal in raw combat power but in effectiveness. As Creature Handler have nothing else, that pretty much means combat power.
Those other profession also have the advantage of being able to pick up other combat skills they are lacking without a significant point expenditure, especially the hybrids. We don't.
So why aren't we at least equal to the seven advanced professions? We have a fraction of their power yet we are classified as combat and pay more skill points for the priviledge.
Pluto9Moon
Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:48 pm
#39
It's semantics. Nothing more. If you have been here as long as we have then you will clearly see they have phrased in the form of a question Mr. Trubek. It is one thing to flame people for grammar and an entirely different one for been wrong. You can kiss off for all I care. These are still key issues for many CH.
Never throw stones at people carrying M-16's. You purposefully undermine and sabotage those working for change. With that in mind it would beg the question, are you really a CH? It seems to me that if you had some insight you would agree with the problem. Then maybe you would disagree with our tactics. But disagreeing simply because of grammar??? It is not some legally binding business agreement as the SWG team proves every day that they are not nor will be conducive towards the real progress of this game.
Middle Earth Online just delayed at least 6 months. Their philosophy was "We want to get it right". The SWG team is quoted as saying "we want to get the combat rebalance right". Keep in mind that they already started it. So it is FACT they screwed the combat rebalance up already as CH were sent into oblivion with the Combat Rebalance v1. We who have waited this past 7 months have ground tired of persecution from the Dev team. They are indeed the problem. They do not wish to help us at all. They have proven that time and time again.
The fact that weapons only received a 5 second delay intimates they know they have screwed us over. Yet still they will not put everyone on equal grounds with us. Our weapons take too long to call and still we cannot change them once combat has started. If all combat professions were forcibly made to hold what ever it is that they are carrying (craft tool, stim pack, weapon, etc) and not have the ability to change to a better weapon to fit any new situation that arises, everyone would quit. That is point blank.
Never throw stones at people carrying M-16's. You purposefully undermine and sabotage those working for change. With that in mind it would beg the question, are you really a CH? It seems to me that if you had some insight you would agree with the problem. Then maybe you would disagree with our tactics. But disagreeing simply because of grammar??? It is not some legally binding business agreement as the SWG team proves every day that they are not nor will be conducive towards the real progress of this game.
Middle Earth Online just delayed at least 6 months. Their philosophy was "We want to get it right". The SWG team is quoted as saying "we want to get the combat rebalance right". Keep in mind that they already started it. So it is FACT they screwed the combat rebalance up already as CH were sent into oblivion with the Combat Rebalance v1. We who have waited this past 7 months have ground tired of persecution from the Dev team. They are indeed the problem. They do not wish to help us at all. They have proven that time and time again.
The fact that weapons only received a 5 second delay intimates they know they have screwed us over. Yet still they will not put everyone on equal grounds with us. Our weapons take too long to call and still we cannot change them once combat has started. If all combat professions were forcibly made to hold what ever it is that they are carrying (craft tool, stim pack, weapon, etc) and not have the ability to change to a better weapon to fit any new situation that arises, everyone would quit. That is point blank.