Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Bio Engineer/CH Balance
Suenr
Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:18 pm
#27
P9M wrote:
Purple,
You are entirely correct you do not have a monopoly on pets at all.
So let me put it this way. Let us BE and CH change roles. You make all creatures. And let us tame wild pets that are far superior to BE pets. Since you have no monopoly at all. In fact, let's change the whole BE scheme to you can create any pet CL10 with 1000 HAM, no armor and no resists.
The truth is that CH is a combat profession. We are utterly powerless to do anything better than buy BE pets. I could have 20 pets in my datapad that ARE NOT BE created. But how stupid would I be in doing that if I want to join in PvP and the GCW.
Yeah you do not have a monoply on pets. Just the functional ones. It is why all BE oppose the slicing idea pure and simple. I do not care how many Fluffy's you create for Strumpet the Entertainer. I do care how many you sell to CH and how little we are involved in taming.
We have no end game at all. Unless of course one wants to be Jedi.
So, what you want to see is looted items which are superior to crafted items. Try EQ.
Suenr
Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:33 am
#28
P9M wrote:The only reason BE's do not wish to slice pets is that they have 100% of the non-CH market. If they were able to slice pets that would mean that CH would control the shell of the animal in some cases while they only provided the Gene Therapy Stim.It is purely comes down to greed and not the "fun factor" we have heard so much about. The process could be entirely the same. Sampling would still have its dangers. Mixing the complex parts would still be fun. The only difference would be the final product.In conclusion, it is the monopoly that BE's have that they wish to protect. The only fear they could have with sharing the fun is the profit they make.
Yep, that's it. They are just a bunch of greedy whiners. All those crafters are. We should be able to loot things that are just as good or better than anything crafters can make. Afterall, being a loot centric game has worked out well for EQ.
P9M
Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:06 am
#29
BTW, Jedi, I want to make a personal apology to you for turning this thread ugly.
I have just had my fill of obstinate fools. I know you never agree with my tactics. I would hope a peaceful solution were in order. I do not think it will come in SWG.
There is too much of a monopoly by one class. I am sure that the Combat Rebalance will nerf the BE clothing tapes to nothingness. At least it is my fondest wish since their community is bull headed. I would hope to see all BE clothes take a dramatic turn for the worst. They are after all bio engineers, not fabric makers.
As we have seen here, they will not change and that will benefit no one.
Vindicar
Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:25 am
#30
PurpleWarrior wrote:
I'd love to work with CHs as far as them selling pets goes, but I have no desire to go around 'slicing' pets. The idea sounds very boring. I like creating pets and then seeing some CH appreciate that pet and use it.
There is nothing 'fun' about slicing for a smuggler - it's a chore and most of them decline to do it. Slicing pets would be just as boring.
We don't have a monopoly - we can't do flyers, or snakes or many rares. We're there to help CHs have a choice. They don't have to choose to use us, so we have no 'monopoly'...
Sorry I have no desire to go around to stores to get my pets. It IS very boring. I like going out into the wild and taming my pet and then watching it grow up. There is nothing 'fun' about going to stores to buy your pets. It's a chore and most vendors are barren to begin with. I like that I can get some pets the BE can't make, but when they're useless in combat compared to a BE pet then there's no reason not to get a BE pet to fight with. That is your monopoly.
I don't really care what you'd like to do or what you wouldn't like to do. There are plenty of other BE's out there that I'm sure would love to "slice" my pet, and I'd like to go to one of them because I really dislike the idea of buying pre-made pets (unless of course they're pets that I can't get in the wild, like a kimo, which I'm not opposed to one bit).
yorukaze
Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:26 pm
#31
Hmmm...
How 'bout making it a prerequisite to be BE + CH in order to do this? Would that change anything?
P__Day
Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:10 pm
#32
NOw im a MBE working on MCH since i actually wanna try out some of my creations and also try and look for a few rare pets for the fun of it. I also have a M.smuggler on another server who has not sliced anything but his own equipment and other guildies equipment for 3 months since slicing is utterly boring and not a good source of income. Saying that BE's control the non CH market is wrong, last i checked you had to bring a pet to a CH for training, start charging people for training the non CH pets and mounts.
The reason i wanted to be a MBE was that it seemed like a challenge, unlike the cookie cutter that is smuggler, where its apply clamp, slice wire, slice wire, hand back equipment. Also it seemed like fun, thats why im a BE because i think its fun, i might be crazy, but sneaking up on something that could kill me in 2 hits unbuffed and with no armor is a thrill, plain and simple. The whole idea of being "an Image designer" for pets seems like a boring idea, if it was made fun to do it sure i would, but why bother when ican go and get samples and make the pet like you wantit to be with the current system.
Sure alot of profs depend on bio engineers,Chef, Tailor and CH,but my combat char depends on an Armorsmith for armor, a weaponsmith for weapons and thatswhat your pets are to you, your weapons(sure NERFED versionsofa glorious past), the armorsmith depends on a tailor for certain components, the BE's depend on hunters for meat, so do chefs, the DE's depend on Master artisans for certain components. I rely on docs for my Pet stim components, the doc relies on hunters. BE's are actually the only prof thatit is optional to use CH's dont have to get BE pets, Chef's dont have to have BE enhanced food, tailors dont need BE clothing they have a choice.
The thing is i get enough tells as a master smuggler about : can you slice my weapon/armor, one of the reasons i started a new char to do master BE on another server was to get away from it, i dont wanna get tells every time im in a populated area about : can you genetically enhance my pet to, then i might as well delete the BE
Message Edited by P__Day on 07-24-2004 09:12 PM
ChelseaRorec
Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:35 am
#33
Jediblues wrote:
One thing that has bothered me is pet collecting has been reduced to a secondary role, because BE pets are much better. I don't know if this idea has been floated yet, if it has I missed it, but what about allowing BE's to modify an existing pet you have in addition to making pets like they do now?
That way that rare spawn you fine can be enhanced, and it actually makes collecting pets useful again.
BURN THE WITCH !!!
Anyndel
Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:00 am
#34
How about giving US the option to deed our pets and put them on vendors? How about giving US the option to sample DNA so you BE's can make your clones? We should be the ones out there getting our limbs chewed off; you guys should be sat at home with your test tubes and gene splicers.
What I'd like to see is BE pets and wild pets being equal. However, give the BE the ability to 'jack' the animal's stats. For example, let's say you get a mountain dewback (ham 5500, max dmg 200), well then that's what a BE mountain dewback should be. However, at creation the BE should be able to swap various stats (e.g. 7000 ham, 150 max dmg, or 400 dmg with 3000 ham). Do you get where I'm coming from? They alter an existing natural design. This way BE pets would still be desirable for their customisation, but they'd never surpass a wild pet.
I'm sure the BE's will flame me for this because it would mean (gasp, shock, horror) they're equal.
Anyndel
Europe-Infinity
What I'd like to see is BE pets and wild pets being equal. However, give the BE the ability to 'jack' the animal's stats. For example, let's say you get a mountain dewback (ham 5500, max dmg 200), well then that's what a BE mountain dewback should be. However, at creation the BE should be able to swap various stats (e.g. 7000 ham, 150 max dmg, or 400 dmg with 3000 ham). Do you get where I'm coming from? They alter an existing natural design. This way BE pets would still be desirable for their customisation, but they'd never surpass a wild pet.
I'm sure the BE's will flame me for this because it would mean (gasp, shock, horror) they're equal.
Anyndel
Europe-Infinity
Suenr
Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:29 am
#35
Anyndel wrote:
How about giving US the option to deed our pets and put them on vendors? How about giving US the option to sample DNA so you BE's can make your clones? We should be the ones out there getting our limbs chewed off; you guys should be sat at home with your test tubes and gene splicers.
What I'd like to see is BE pets and wild pets being equal. However, give the BE the ability to 'jack' the animal's stats. For example, let's say you get a mountain dewback (ham 5500, max dmg 200), well then that's what a BE mountain dewback should be. However, at creation the BE should be able to swap various stats (e.g. 7000 ham, 150 max dmg, or 400 dmg with 3000 ham). Do you get where I'm coming from? They alter an existing natural design. This way BE pets would still be desirable for their customisation, but they'd never surpass a wild pet.
I'm sure the BE's will flame me for this because it would mean (gasp, shock, horror) they're equal.
Anyndel
Europe-Infinity
No, that would mean (gasp) that they would be useless. If you were a pistoleer, and you could loot pistols just as good as those which could be made by a weaponsmith, would you ever buy a new pistol? If you were melee, and you could loot a set of armor just as good as an armorsmith could make, would you ever buy a set of armor? There are areas where wild pets are as good or better than BE pets already. If you take away the ability to make pets better than most creatures that can be tamed, you are back to the broken BE class that was introduced when the game came out. Over half the BE class is dedicated to creating creature pets. It already takes much more work for a BE to make one really good pet than for an armorsmith or weaponsmith to make a full run of weapons or armor. If they can't create pets better than wild, then there is really very litte reason to become a BE at all. If they can't create pets better than wild, then there is really very litte reason to become a BE at all.
Now, that's not to say that BE is perfect as is. They still need to have some of the lower level pets toned down. But at the higher levels, BE pets are quite balanced, and CHs should concentrate more on making CH better instead of trying to get other classes nerfed into uselessness.
hulleman
Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:58 am
#36
Yes this is a valid idea. If not BE making changes to the pet they could do stims similar to the pet stims but instead increase armor/decrease attack ... and so on.
This way they only have another product to make and it would probably be a lot simpler for us to apply.
Helanor
Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:20 am
#37
Err what profit lol. I'm a CH/BE and I only make pets to go in my pet shop. I sell a couple a week on average which just about pays my maintenance bill and maybe some of the fare to go dna collecting. I dont make Chef tissues and the only tailor ones I make are the odd crate for my sister for free as the resources are such a pain to collect. I do both professions because my favourite bit of the game is the animals and as a MCH I'd be quite happy for my BE half who apparently I'm supposed to be at odds with lol, to alter my pets.
Just my opinion
Helene
Washell
Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:51 am
#38
I'm a MBE/MCH atm (to lazy to change sig). The proposed idea of adding 4 dna samples to the existing pet wouldn't be that bad. Since the most powerful BE pets seem to rely on generational sampling (make a couple of pets with stats close to what you want from "wild" dna, use the dna from the clones to create the final pet). You'd have the wildpets, the enhanced wild pets and the clones. It would make BE useful to the CH's who only want to use pets they tamed themselves.
hulleman
Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:12 am
#39
Heleanor, do not know if you make such pets but have you ever wondered about some pets you can come across that a non ch can use and compare them to what I can tame for them. That difference is pretty big. I think that to make the choice of having a bio pet and a tamed one should be an easy one. I rarely if ever sell any pets. Why you do not sell pets I am not sure of but it seems that what I do sell are mounts.
I have no place to put my pets either and have to carry them around with me all the time so my profession seem a bit strange sometimes.
Maybe we should not be able to tame pets just use them better ... since the tamed ones are so bad we do not really need that part then ?!