Creature Handler Archive
Thread: CH is just fine the way it is.
Ok, Ok uncle, uncle.. I give up. Yes there are definately problems with the ch class.. (what i wouldnt give to have my two armored graul maulers back or even a few squills for that matter). I can say that i am more than a little bit experienced with the class over all. I have been master now for more than six months (maybe longer than some of you have even been playing the game). I am still MCH because I love the profession so dont go gettin all defensive. Look at it this way... creatures can only be allowed to be just so effective as killing machines and here is why.. If they were much stronger than they are how unbalanced could that be potentially. Imagine that you are a TKM (pretty powerful in all rights even pvp), now add the dodge tree from pistoleer and a good variety of weapons that come with that class.. (starting to get really powerfull).. now throw in MCH as you would wish it to be... the sum of all that is something i would consider a little overpowered. Now I think that power is good.. and if im the one thats overpowered then thats even better but it wouldnt be long before there were more critters running around in town than there were players.
Again let me state that I have been doing this for over six months.. not always using CH as a tool for crawling through other professions but just for play... in the GCW, for missions, for hunting, for pvp.. heck at one time I even had a durni named "please tip the wookie" when i was fooling around with entertainer. I have a pretty good idea of what the ins and outs are and what the goods and bads are. When i say that it helps grind through professions well I stick by that... try to grind through carbineer for example starting from novice marksman... while you are killing squalls for 200xp each I am killing Roba boars for 3000xp each why because i can stand back and fight and know that as of yet NPC's and critters are dumb and wont attack me until my pet gets incapped however if i were just running solo with a trusty cdef carbine i think things will turn out differently.
As far as pvp goes, I agree pets are now all but a slight annoyance... although a strong disease or poison and a knockdown coming from somewhere other than you can be handy for the most part the just plain suck in pvp. If pvp is your only goal then try Pistoleer, with the bounty hunting pistol tree coupled with smuggler dirty fighting and a little bit of tk for either defense or meditate (your choice).
I just want to close by saying this... This post was not supposed to be informative or argumentative and this is where i made my mistake.. I should have said from the get go that this is just my opinion. And is based on my style of play.. I play at least a couple hours a day and usually solo.. I dont use my pets to kill anything (rarely) they are merely a distraction to allow me to kill... they arent iron tanks like they used to be but they sure can hold out long enough for me to do my work.
So if anyone was offended i appologize.. that was not my intent. I was merely sharing my opinion weather you agree or not and was curious to see how others felt.
Thank you...
Mikmac
Defenders of Anchorhead D-O-A
Master Creature handler + pretty much anything else depending on the day
Ahazi
Now, as for your arguing scout's ability, that is the INVERSE of my statement, not my argument. I said that a profession should not rely on having any other profession except the starting base. I did not say that the profession should have to rely even on that. When was the last time you saw a TKM use unarmed hit 1?
Further, scout does help CH. Mask scent especially is vital for the taming aspect of the class.
Finally, if you are going to ask why a class that has no combat preqs should be combat-capable, go ask why smugglers get to craft drugs that rival foodstuffs yet have no artisian preqs. QED.
Spazzers wrote:If you don't return the pre-nerf animal stats, removing the ability to use another combat profession would truly kill off creature handler completely.
No doubt. The two go hand-in-hand. Leave it as it is, we are worthless. Pull up the power, we overbalance the equation.
We are balanced, perhaps, but only because 5+0 = 5. (why'd I pick 5? I dunno. The point is that the impact of having CH is negligible, thus we are balanced against non-CH. To change that they need to make the impact of having a combat skill negligible while using powerful pets, of which there are currently none.)
A CH with some minor combat abilities can sort of solo in PvE.
A CH with some minot combat abilities is completely worthless in PvP - our pets are ineffective AND if we die they just stand there unless attacked..
A CM with some minor combat abilities is completely worthless in PvE.
A CM with some minor combat abilities can reduce an entire party to charred, black HAM bars... AFTER they die, if the enemy has no doctor, in PvP.
CH might be a support class, but it's a COMBAT support class, not a non-combat support class. A doctor with no combat class is nothing more than a big target in PvP. They'll be the first ones shot and they can't even attack in any way, shape or form. A CH with no combat class still has the ability to attack, but we're basically ignored. Our pets are little more than speed-bumps.
Another thing...
I tamed a natural baby plains cat.
I grew that cat to its full size.
I had that cat fight another plains cat, one on one.
If I hadn't had some kind of combat skill myself, my cat would have died. Not by a close margin, either. Why is my CH-grown plains cat so much weaker than a nature-grown plains cat? Why isn't a plains cat a plains cat?
-V
(Master ID, working on master CH, novice medic, no points for elite combat)
Ok Ryyger,
You say "argue that creature handler is not combat oriented. our first command taught is attack..........blah blah blah... creature combat is an effective means of gaining xp."
Easy arguement...
1. what should your first command be?.... dance... of course its attack. its a combat support role what else should it be.
2. effective means of gaining xp... ok. now your cover is blown!. your not a CH at all. If you were then you would know that the ONLY experience you will gain from creature combat is creature handler xp... you will gain ZERO combat xp. So how do you figure its effective.. I go further by arguing that if it were intended to be a primary combat profession then you would gain combat xp from it.
ps.. read your previous posts... no skill should have to rely on any other skill than its prerequisite skills.. I called you on that and it was pretty clear so you back peddled and said that "thats not what you said" (although it was in black and white). Then you said It shouldnt have to rely even on its prerequisites and should survive as a stand alone.... well then I ask you.. how effective is Doctor as a stand alone? Or Image designer.... its not and it's not meant to be. You are given 250 Skill points to spend, yet No skill requires more than 77 alone or 63 if it is advanced.. Even bounty hunter with its 154 prerequisite points still allows you 43 extra points after mastering it and why? I'll tell you why. Its because NONE of the professions should be completely viable in and of themselves. Some skills are Combat, Some are support and Some are just for roll play (until they change ID at least). Look at these facts;
1. CH does not grant you combat xp
2. CH is based on a support profession (scout is in no way combat oriented)
3. CH is not viable as a stand alone combat profession
4. CH is not viable as a PVP profession (if it were it would be grossly overpowere if only because it could be coupled with rifleman or TKM)
All this lends proof to the fact that CH was never intended to be anything more than a combat support class. My original post was merely my opinion of my belief that it is a great combat support class.
Now get off your high horse and realize that YOU also dont know everything about this game. Stop grieving everyone else (how many possitive posts have you made or are they all something like "No you're wrong. You suck... oh and here is your one star). And finally why dont you start offering possitive, realistic, constructive criticism. It seems that in your little world every one of these classes should be able to PVE, PVP,GCW and RPG all by itself. Well they cant and thats because if they could, we would only need one. Dude, get over yourself.. and p.s...... here this one is for you ... * ..... (a single star)
You say "argue that creature handler is not combat oriented. our first command taught is attack..........blah blah blah... creature combat is an effective means of gaining xp."
Easy arguement...
1. what should your first command be?.... dance... of course its attack. its a combat support role what else should it be.
2. effective means of gaining xp... ok. now your cover is blown!. your not a CH at all. If you were then you would know that the ONLY experience you will gain from creature combat is creature handler xp... you will gain ZERO combat xp. So how do you figure its effective.. I go further by arguing that if it were intended to be a primary combat profession then you would gain combat xp from it.
Did I say it gained combat XP? COMBAT is an effective means of gaining CREATURE HANDLER XP. A CH revolves around combat. END OF STATEMENT.
ps.. read your previous posts... no skill should have to rely on any other skill than its prerequisite skills.. I called you on that and it was pretty clear so you back peddled and said that "thats not what you said" (although it was in black and white). Then you said It shouldnt have to rely even on its prerequisites and should survive as a stand alone.... well then I ask you.. how effective is Doctor as a stand alone? Or Image designer.... its not and it's not meant to be.
A doctor has no requirement to engage in combat nor any benefits from it. Nor does IDer. A COMBAT-ORIENTED PROFESSION needs to be able to survive.
You are given 250 Skill points to spend, yet No skill requires more than 77 alone or 63 if it is advanced.. Even bounty hunter with its 154 prerequisite points still allows you 43 extra points after mastering it and why? I'll tell you why. Its because NONE of the professions should be completely viable in and of themselves.
Completely? Of course not. But if you can look me in the eye (figurtively) and say that a Master Fencer is as viable as a MCH, I want whatever the hell you're smoking.
Some skills are Combat, Some are support and Some are just for roll play (until they change ID at least). Look at these facts;
1. CH does not grant you combat xp
Because it does not NEED combat XP. Neither does Smuggler or Bounty Hunter; they rely on mechanisms that are used in other combat professions and get it as a side effect. CH use unique code and are not given XP they don't need because of it.
2. CH is based on a support profession (scout is in no way combat oriented)
Genetic fallacy, or a varient thereof. I said that no profession should rely on any profession save its starting element. That doesn't mean that it needs to rely on it's starting profession, nor does it mean that it can't be a tangent. Smugglers don't rely on their Unarmed skills, for example.
3. CH is not viable as a stand alone combat profession
Ok. You have stated the problem and are using it as an argument. Circular logic is a fairly poor argument
4. CH is not viable as a PVP profession (if it were it would be grossly overpowere if only because it could be coupled with rifleman or TKM)
Which is why I have consistently suggested a hand-held item to remove that advantage.
All this lends proof to the fact that CH was never intended to be anything more than a combat support class. My original post was merely my opinion of my belief that it is a great combat support class.
No, this is proof that there is a problem. Yay!
Now get off your high horse and realize that YOU also dont know everything about this game.
Never claimed I have, never will.
Stop grieving everyone else(how many possitive posts have you made or are they all something like "No you're wrong. You suck... oh and here is your one star).
All of them. I have never said that anyone sucks, never implied it. Except in really bad grammar but that's another issue entirely. I only give 1-star when a person consistently fails to understand an argument.
And finally why dont you start offering possitive, realistic, constructive criticism.
Do you read my posts or just the parts where I point out the logical flaws in your argument?
It seems that in your little world every one of these classes should be able to PVE, PVP,GCW and RPG all by itself.
For combat professions? Definatly. In addition, all professions need to have a distinct value in the GCW, otherwise there would be no NEED for them. As for RP, that's the player's domain. All characters have the potential.
Ryger,
You just been trolled 
.
The bottom line is SOE is selling this game to people under the idea that CH is not only a combat profession but an ELITE combat profession. That is what is stated in the manual and in their advertising. CH should be able to at least do PVE without me having to run in and kill, if I can catch up, whatever it is my pets are working on, unless that creature is very much larger than they are.
PVP is a joke end of story. If you PVP with your pets you are either master or close to in another combat class, or you have no regard for your pets. I was doing NPC's at a rebel base, and got killed finally, my pet is standing there mourning my passing and some twit comes along and kills him. Now tell me is that griefing or what? I don't want to be UBER in PVP i want to be respected, at the moment CH is neither.