Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Minor info on Comabt Upgrade...
raynedog
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:39 am
#14
It is far too early to even begin to worry about what might or might not happen, it's always good to talk about what we feel may be a problem, but don't panic. Don't forget there is a whole wide scope of info that is not out yet.
Plus, there are 5 offical CH's in the sandbox, not to mention other people that are in the sandbox with a concern for CH. Even if you where alone in a room with the Devs right now, the answer to your questions would porably be "I don't know" because play testing hasn't started. After alpha there will be a wider beta, and then I imagine it will go to test center, that's a ton of oppertunitys for just about everyone to get a chance to voice conerns and see how things are going to work out. As it stands now all CU is, is words posted on the forums. If you read the HAM documents that where made public a while back, you can see how even those changes would help us out.
So I wouldn't get to worked up or worried, there are a lot of people looking out for CH.
Plus, there are 5 offical CH's in the sandbox, not to mention other people that are in the sandbox with a concern for CH. Even if you where alone in a room with the Devs right now, the answer to your questions would porably be "I don't know" because play testing hasn't started. After alpha there will be a wider beta, and then I imagine it will go to test center, that's a ton of oppertunitys for just about everyone to get a chance to voice conerns and see how things are going to work out. As it stands now all CU is, is words posted on the forums. If you read the HAM documents that where made public a while back, you can see how even those changes would help us out.
So I wouldn't get to worked up or worried, there are a lot of people looking out for CH.
Message Edited by raynedog on 01-19-2005 10:41 AM
Kitoth
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:46 am
#15
Yeah, I'm not trying to be Chicken Little with cries of "the nerf is coming! the nerf is coming!".... I'm just trying to see into the future, or at least, peer into the skulls of the devs with my uber "Mentok the Mind Taker" skillz to get some clue as to what possible outcomes there may be. I know from previous experience that with any upside there is always a downside. It's called balance.
So while I think they maydo some positive things for us, I'm trying to think about what downsides there may be to retain that balance. The CH conundrum really is a tricky one and I'm really curious to see what they come up with as a solution.
Message Edited by Kitoth on 01-19-2005 10:47 AM
LaraDarkStar
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:49 am
#16
Well,
do like most veterans are doing, take a break and think about what might be in the possible future.
I know you cant say much vert, but unfortunately i think it would seriously be in ppl interest to have more info. At the rate swg is loosing players, CR or not, there wont be much ppl left to even play it.
Thats assuming the CR would be bugless, un-broken, and actualy working....lol ya right!
And the idea of requiering a grp to go after rares and master level creatures....youd better hope a baby pops without getting agroed, shot or killed by ppl in the grp. Heres and idea, why not make the creature spawn a baby at 10% when only a MCH is close by. That be too fun and logical. I for one and fed up with broken promisses and bugs, and CTD. Ill be back when i hear some real news and positive comments.
Oh and BTW i have quit the Bull search on gorath, at 987 lairs.... its too stupid to even let this kind of odds limit us on the one creature a MCH can find a challenge to tame. Whats the pts of taking time and paying ppl to even go bull hunting when the babys dont even spawn or and so broken the spawn is WAY to low.
If the CR requiers grping to even take down rancors, well can you hear the ppl saying no fair a MCH has a rancor at his command? plus the combat prof wed have? EVEN if we only had ch as a combat prof, a rancor would be too powerfull with the CR.
neinnunb
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:52 am
#17
I dont understand the problem.
When I was a CH, I did not have any other combat profession as back up. But that did not restrict me from capturing allot of rare and powerful creatures. It doesnt matter if you can or can't solo a Rancor. You just run like hell the other way when they sniff you out.
Just wear good armor for protection and have good mask scent.
Edit:
Nevermind I uderstand now (you cant clean out the lair so that babies will come out).
When I was a CH, I did not have any other combat profession as back up. But that did not restrict me from capturing allot of rare and powerful creatures. It doesnt matter if you can or can't solo a Rancor. You just run like hell the other way when they sniff you out.
Just wear good armor for protection and have good mask scent.Edit:
Nevermind I uderstand now (you cant clean out the lair so that babies will come out).
Message Edited by neinnunb on 01-19-2005 01:57 PM
Ekaw
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:53 am
#18
personally, i think our profession will get a lot stronger, but thatwe will also lose a TON of skill points. Like CH will be viable, but we will not be able to use a rifle to the fullest of its potential.
That is what I think will happen.
LaraDarkStar
Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:10 pm
#19
Thats the point,
right now i have zero problems taking out rancors , lairs and lairs upon lairs. hell i even use a crafted LVA just to keep the nice dots lances for specials monsters or pvp. I even use my own Bio rancor just for kicks to rp, not that he does more then distract while i area kill 2-3-4 rancors around me, my personal best is 7 rancors on me at once 
Armor or not when you swing for an average of 2.9k to 4.5k it doesnt take long to clear out lairs.
Armor or not when you swing for an average of 2.9k to 4.5k it doesnt take long to clear out lairs.So if you need what , 2-3+ masters of a combat prof to take out 1 or 2 rancors. Having a rancor as a pet or anything in that range of power would make us over powerfull, thus the nerf cries will begin once again.
Kzera-za
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:12 pm
#20
Thunderheart wrote:
"Tough NPCs and creatures will require groups to take them down."
This sounds like half a story in a way...sure it might take groups to take down a creature...but that only explains defensive powers and not offensive. what kind of damage will a pet do in the CU? er..."wait 'til the CU" =/
ZallusNuranxis
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:30 pm
#21
Kitoth wrote:I sadly have to agree. I remember when everyone was a partial CH for PvP and then tehy decided to adjust the boxes to make it ony desirable to be a MCH. I also remember the great "creature nerf" when we got balanced.
Vert's somewhat ominous commentgot me thinking. We may 'technically' get what we asked for (pets thatlast more than 15 secs in PvP)but lose something else in the process.
What do the devs do about Creature Handlers? Allright, we want the rancor (and other high-level pets)to be a respectable, tough creature that should eat anyone solo. But what happens when a player tames a rancor and has that power at their command? We get right back to where we started in June of 2003- people screaming about CH being overpowered and trying to get us nerfed back to the stone age.
And so it just hit me. Reduction in maximum tamableCL. Rancors and the like no longer tamable. The creatures we can train being decent enough to fight, butnot as powerful as things we used to have will become.
I hope that's not where we're headed, butit just occured to meit may be the devs' way of getting out of this catch-22.
ChewbaccaWookie
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:46 pm
#22
I want to thank those of you who are replying on TH's thread and keeping these concerns in the fore front so to speak. I realize that we are divided as a community and different strokes for different folks, but this will affect every CH. While I agree that it will be good because creatures will be stronger, it will hurt because only those who have those creatures now will be the ones that have them then. I don't see anyone else after the CU, if it happens the way I am thinking it will, will be taming another Bull Rancor or other high end rare. The spawn rates will be the same, but the amount of time it will take will go up by leaps and bounds if forced to group for them.
Please sandbox testers keep this in mind when you test this part of the upgrade.
jopenack
Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:57 pm
#23
NP Chewy lol hope you dont mind me shortening up your name it seemed fitting :-)
I posted there also feel free to hit my view all post people and see what I aksed
I took the "no one should be able to solo a rancor" expression we have all seen and asked what would befall ch in this instance. hopefully we may get a little insight but I doubt it lol
still as I said above I think we shall find ch the easier of all the professions in adjusting to the c-upgrade and we may just find ourselves useful and wanted again
/DeepBow to all
Thanks Chewy for the multiple tries on the said mentioned thread.
Luke_Jivewalker
Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:51 pm
#24
While reading the rest of the posts I had an idea which was brought up by someone shortly after I thought of it, the skill points would be a great way of making CH balanced. If you need say Master Scout, maybe some Ranger as a prereq. for CH then you won't have enough points to master a combat profession. And if they change the combat professions so you really only get the good stuff at master, the way it should be IMO, then you'll only be adequet in combat, not great.
Or you could have some state that can be laid similar to Intimidate which when the pet is alive gives you some bonuses or takes away some defenses of enemies (as the gamorean guard in RotJ was surely strong, but when he saw the Rancor he just lost his composure), but when the pet dies or gets incompacitated then you suffer alot (similar to the master of that rancor in question), and you'd end up being practically useless in combat.
I don't have any answers though and all i'm doing is just rambling on what could happen. If I was in vert's postion I don't know if I could keep my mouth shut. Good job so far in doing your... job lol. Just like everybody else though, my leaving or staying depends alot on how the CU is.
beta can't come soon enough.
ChewbaccaWookie
Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:52 pm
#25
Your most welcome!
EDIT: Nope I don't mind the name shortening. Chewbacca is my favorite Star Wars character and it is an honor to be called Chewie!
Message Edited by ChewbaccaWookie on 01-19-2005 05:54 PM
Vertexon
Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:50 pm
#26
It has always been my experience in-game and in discussions here in the CH forum, that the vulnerability of the Creature Handler himself should factor in when examining whether it's balanced to allow pets that themselves might take several players to kill. Because historically (in the olden days when pets were stronger than players), the most common tactic was to annihilate the Handler first, then let his pet sort of lose direction and become far less viable of a threat.
But definitely please don't panic or get into lots ofwild speculation about things like skill point changes, changes to maximum callable CL, etc. As raynedog said, there are CHs participating in the feedback process over there. So please don't panic.