Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Minor info on Comabt Upgrade...
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ChewbaccaWookie
Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:28 pm
#1
This was posted a little bit ago. Not sure if I asked the correct questions or not, or even raised the right concerns, but here it is and yes I am concerned about the future of rare hunting.
Here is the link: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=56182&page=1
Here is my reply:
Thunderheart wrote:
"Tough NPCs and creatures will require groups to take them down."
TH, how will this affect Creature Handlers in regards to taming? As you know many of the sought after rares are indeed tough creatures. These rares are already tough enough to find solo and require weeks if not months for the most part to obtain. Creatures such as Bull Rancors and Great Plains Stalkers are the most sought after tamable rares right now. If you require grouping for these creatures then no CH will obtain these creatures again. Groups will not want to take the time that's required in order to actually get a baby from these 2 creatures. As it is GPS aren't lair creatures and Baby Bull Rancors while being lair creatures still take upwards of 400 or more lairs destroyed to find. Groups aren't going to want to help a CH if this is still the case when the CU come out.What will be done to alleviate this problem? Are you going to make the rare creatures not so rare any more? Are these creatures going to remain at their current level and still will be able to be soloed?
"
Luke_Jivewalker
Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:13 pm
#2
This will definatley change the way rare-pets are found. As it is I spend alot of time doing missions for Bull Rancors, I just hop mindlessly from one lair to the other while killing everything in my way except for those that con green on my radar (i kill them too as soon as I realize it isn't what I want).
What needs to be realized is that doing this post CU we'll need groups. And groups will require either people you know who are willing to help you do this or people you pay to tag along for support.
And the first option will work for a little bit but friends will soon grow bored with trying to hunt for rare tames. So you are left with option two.. paying people to tag along. And this will be tougher to do because money isn't easy to come by anymore and will be even tougher to come by after the CU, so once again CHs are on the bad end of the deal.
I like the idea of grouping for help, but looking at the current activity of most servers and how hard it is to get into a 'solo-group' I imagine it'll be even tougher to find people willing to help you hunt for the better part of a buff session.
And on a similar topic, what'll they do with the Death Watch Bunker and Corvette enemies? They already require to be grouped with other people to take on, will they become as weak as the weaker night-sisters or rancors? Or will they still have 200,000 HAM with uber armor? I only mention that because half the time I hunt random DW spawns for cool loot which is a ver similar mindless activity to searching for rare tames.
The CU will obviously either make or break the game as people who play now and enjoy hunting night-sisters and other high-end content won't be content with grouping with others to hunt the same thing or going solo and killing things like rogue bagerasets.
Rodan44
Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:19 pm
#3
Definitely a reasonable concern. Assuming that the CU does in fact cause these higher level creatures to become un-soloable, then you are absolutely correct in stating that no group is going to want to follow a CH around to lair after lair after lair looking for a rare. Plus, if you are in a hunting group with a bunch of uber combat dudes, there is a very high likelihood that they will kill your rare baby before you ever get a chance to tame it. You could always just form groups of other CHs who are likely to be more sympathetic to your cause, but what CH wants to put in all that time and effort just to watch another CH take the ultimate prize?
I personally have never found any ultra-rare pets (although I've never really looked), but maybe some of those who have can discuss what methods they use to find their rares, i.e. did you find them through systematic solo missions/wild spawns or did you join hunting groups to help you out?
Vertexon
Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:03 pm
#4
By the same token, though (and you've already mentioned this), one of our longtime issues has been that rancors (and all high end pets by extension) are comparatively too weak and can be killed by other players too easily. The same lack of power that enables you to solo rancor lairs during a rare hunt is what's getting your rancor killed in15 seconds in PvP. Not getting into Combat Upgrade details... just telling you what we as a community have been asking for in the past.
ShaikeRamjet
Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:21 pm
#5
Vertexon wrote:
By the same token, though (and you've already mentioned this), one of our longtime issues has been that rancors (and all high end pets by extension) are comparatively too weak and can be killed by other players too easily. The same lack of power that enables you to solo rancor lairs during a rare hunt is what's getting your rancor killed in15 seconds in PvP. Not getting into Combat Upgrade details... just telling you what we as a community have been asking for in the past.
Why not give us a little detail? I'm very close to giving up the CH profession, and I have been a Master CH since August of '03. I'm at my wits end here. I don't see anything about CH's in the CU overview and that's kind of disheartening. I want more for our profession, but I don't know if I can stick it out any longer. If I knew that it would be worth the wait, then maybe I would want to stick around, but as it is now...
I know you aren't able to give us details... but can you tell us that the wait will be worth it? I'm also a BH, and I love my carbine... I'm almost considering dropping CH to go Carbineer.My pets are extremely usefull when it comes to NPC bounties, but I don't even worry about pulling them out when I PvP. Everyone knows how useless that is.
I have a Arachne Widow that I use constantly in PvE. I stopped the search for the Bull Rancor after seeing how hard it was for everyone here trying to get them. I have only seen the GPS one time and there were no babies. Honestly, there aren't any other creatures that I would want, except maybe the Mantigrue Screecher... but only if they give us flying mounts and enhanced mountable combat.
Please Vert... we have put a lot of faith in you. Tell us one way or the other if you think that it's going to be worth while to stick around, and please be completely honest. That's all any of us want, honesty. We've been drug by our noses long enough. A little glimpse into the future of our profession would go a long way with the CH community.
ana-mo-cara
Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:51 pm
#6
Beleive it or not a group is probabally more effective at getting tames for a ch then a ch by themselves. I remember on group hunts early in the game. That the rest of the group was more then willing to stop and help a ch tame a pet either by pulling the adults away, or helping to farm the nest.
Its a matter or perspective. The curb will mean that more group hunting will have to take place, and thats good. On another note players will be forced to become aware more of what each group members goals are. Whether it be harvesting meat, or looting chests. Getting the creature loots, or tameing pets. The net result is you scratch my back I scratch yours. They want the creature tank they usually give you a little consideration. If your just tameing everything in sight they might get upset. If your just asking for the juciest tames its really not that much of an issue.
The good news is that ch looks like it will get a boost from the CURB. TKAs not getting as much of the passive boost they get now. With buffs being reduced, and to top that off armor certs, and specials hams limiting specials. A CH should become even more desireable in combat.
Plus if a pet can last for a few more seconds in pvp. If your pet can force a player to waste specials ham. The net result is the pet gets you a bonus. When was the last time you could say that about pvp. Plus with work on specials and state counters. One would assume they would go into the state codes, and maybe they will fix the state attacks for ch. Which is a pain in stacking ch with another combat.
Its really all good. Besides the rares have been more of a crutch then the pinacle of ch. Something I would be more then willing to trade for a more useful combat role for my ch. If It becomes a super hard thing the devs can always increase the spawns on the rares later on.
Vertexon
Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:59 pm
#7
I would really like to, but I'm not allowed to talk about combat upgrade at all. This includes general impressions on how I think particular professions (including CH) are going to be impacted. I definitely understand how frustrating it is to wait for information. But please understand that the Devs will be opening up more areas for discussion as they judge the time is right (this has already started with TH's overview).
I really appreciate your patience with this, because the information release is being done in stages (making it difficult to have a conversation without the tendency to wander into as yet unreleased territory).
MrHawat
Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:44 am
#8
Personally, I wish SOE would get off this forced grouping kick. I was playing long ago when grouping was pretty much required and I remember all of the problems that had people screaming on these boards. Ninja looters, MD's who would not heal pets because they got no Med XP, the giant time sink of getting a group formed and at the same destination at the same time, the one or two idiots in every group that shot at anything and would drag a ton of aggro at the group, playing at off times, and many more. People who are friends in real life or Guild/City members are already grouping. Trying to force total strangers together into a group causes nothing but problems.
Ekaw
Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:55 am
#9
Vertexon wrote:
I would really like to, but I'm not allowed to talk about combat upgrade at all. This includes general impressions on how I think particular professions (including CH) are going to be impacted. I definitely understand how frustrating it is to wait for information. But please understand that the Devs will be opening up more areas for discussion as they judge the time is right (this has already started with TH's overview).
I really appreciate your patience with this, because the information release is being done in stages (making it difficult to have a conversation without the tendency to wander into as yet unreleased territory).
Vert are you happy thus far though? That is a safe question.
jopenack
Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:05 am
#10
I realise i'm just being optimistic here lol
I believe many people are forgetting ch do not solo missions we are grouped "with our pets"
so a rancor lair depending on the type of course may still be ch-soloable
if it takes 3 people to do a rancor mission after the upgrade then a ch probably would be able to do this.
I am sure it wil take longer and require pet-stims but with a master ch and 2 very good pets I see no reason why the pets could not keep us safe tanking 2 rancors while we kill them. then a tap of the lair after they are healed to see what babies popup.
rancor lairs would also be considered the highend of this old technique and other lairs to be searched would be easier still.
I'm figuring with ham restucture and buffs/armor reductions being the worse to effect the combat professions from what people are used to. but most ch who have played this profession for some time will discover that it will be an easier adjustment considering we have never been dependent on armor and buffs.
I just purchased mt first set of comp armor just a couple of months ago for the village quest lol my friends all were saying how wierd it was to see me dressed in armor lol it was quite funny to see they're reaction lol
Keep the faith I'm predicting our rare and general baby hunts will basically be the same. consider this you have a bul rancor pet. you are able to lure one bull rancor from the lair at a time and take him down. bull vs bull plus you = victory. ok sure both agro (assuming average lair 2 rancors per spawn) so bull + you vs 2 bulls = tough fight but I beieve a victory will be possible if played as smart as most ch have learned to play.
just found this in the c-upgrade post
•High End Content
- Tough NPCs and creatures will require groups to take them down.
- Buffs and HAM drain/regeneration put back into balance.
- Players can still solo character advancement.
Message Edited by jopenack on 01-19-2005 01:11 PM
Kitoth
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:09 am
#11
Vert's somewhat ominous commentgot me thinking. We may 'technically' get what we asked for (pets thatlast more than 15 secs in PvP)but lose something else in the process.
What do the devs do about Creature Handlers? Allright, we want the rancor (and other high-level pets)to be a respectable, tough creature that should eat anyone solo. But what happens when a player tames a rancor and has that power at their command? We get right back to where we started in June of 2003- people screaming about CH being overpowered and trying to get us nerfed back to the stone age.
And so it just hit me. Reduction in maximum tamableCL. Rancors and the like no longer tamable. The creatures we can train being decent enough to fight, butnot as powerful as things we used to have will become.
I hope that's not where we're headed, butit just occured to meit may be the devs' way of getting out of this catch-22.
Message Edited by Kitoth on 01-19-2005 10:41 AM
EsclavoTKM
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:22 am
#12
I'm mostly upset that they won't even answer any questions that have been brought up by CH's in general. He's come in and answered pretty much everyone elses concerns, but I believe that Chewbacca has gone unanswered throughout the full 16 pgs of crap, as have any other ch's that have asked questions. Most other professions have at least been thrown a bone (no pun intended). As it stands, I'm probably going to get hit double since CH will be ignored or gimped further and dancer will lose even more value as mind buffs will be less needed.
Why can't they just focus on fixing bugs? Would be nice to have pets not autostore....how about no more ghosting... broken spawns, etc etc. Fix the old crap before adding what looks to me, more crap that stands a bigger chance of going south.
Why can't they just focus on fixing bugs? Would be nice to have pets not autostore....how about no more ghosting... broken spawns, etc etc. Fix the old crap before adding what looks to me, more crap that stands a bigger chance of going south.
Bria Galaxy ~ Master Dancer/Master Creature Handler/Imperial Mansloot ~
Tarquinas Galaxy ~ Teras Kasi Master/Master Doctor ~
Grambacca
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:24 am
#13
Oh holy crap Kitoth I hope you are not right but that would be so in-line with what the Dev's have done to us so far!
That would come real close to being the final starw for me as a CH. If we cannot have a Rancor as a pet and have it be tough to fight against then I am going to be really disappointed.
If they do this then it would depend on what the rest of the CURB does for us that will make me stick with or drop CH altogether.
Man what a SAD thought.
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