Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Do the Devs want CH to go away?
WWJD,
The point I was trying to make about the Poke thingis that TH refers to "Insta-pet exploits" as "poke-mon" or "poke-pet". If you do an advanced search on "Thunderheart" as the poster and "poke" as the target word in a thread, you'll find 3 relevant posts (4 hits actually come up, but the other is "poke" in a different context). The "poke" comments are using his own words replying to someone that didn't use "poke" in their comment. In that context I find it uncalled for and disdainful (IMO). As I also said, I have respect the Dev's (including TH) for what they do and under the pressure they must be under. I don't think TH means to dothis consciously, so unless someone says something, he won't realise he's doing it, will he?
I've also been MCH long enough to remember when the "Poke-mon Wars/Pet Wars" trend was in full force, and THexpressed his opinion on the matter then as well(those threads are part of the old, now deleted, boards, so they won't show on a search, but other probably remember it as well).
Ok...I get tired of hearing this one too. If you are a support class, it's your choice because this is a class-less game. Your argument would hold true if you didn't have other skill-points to invest but the fact remains the mastering CH still allows you to master another elite combat profession. I chose to Master BE along with CH so I gave up some combat ability to do so...the fact remains that the choice is yours.
It's interesting how you worded that: "the fact remains the mastering CH still allows you to master another elite combat profession". Creature Handler isnot an elite combat profession. It is, however, a combat profession. I agree with what you say later in the post that the other professions may wellbe reduced to our level of combat ability (relatively), but that is still months away. I shouldn't have to take another combat class, elite or not,to be effective asI've already takena combat class. The fact that you say I have points left over so I should take a "real" combat class just proves what I am saying...
30 seconds is no big deal to me so either way it goes, it won't affect my play style. If you are into pvp, then this could impact you but I doubt there are many people pvping who just use pets as their weapon.
As far as the 30-second timer goes, I agree, it's more of an annoyance than a "big deal". I played EQ for long enough that these annoyances actually didadd up to a "big deal" though, so I'd like to see them avoid the same mistake here. I'd be just as happy to see them leave the "camp calling" in as a parallel system alongsidethe "new" system. If you have a pet autostore during a fight, that 30 seconds is actually 90+(60 seconds after the fight, call, 30 seconds more).
Maybe you don't read up on the DE forum but this idea has been scrapped for now. There will not be a new Droid Commander profession (at least not in the immediate future).
I am aware that the will not be adding DC to publish 7 or 8, but it is coming (as you would be aware from reading it yourself). It hasn't been scrapped, it's been postponed, so my point about combining DC with CH still stands.
I briefly addressed your points above but there are also some additional thinks to take into consideration. If you remember correctly, the devs said that when the initial creature changes went in, it would seem like some of the other combat types seemed more powerful. This would be the case until the final balancing went in. If you've noticed, some of these classes have begun to feel that effect as their effective power has been brought back in line. You only feel this pain because we were the first but it was a necessary first because creatures impact a large part of this game. Wait until all the combat classes have gone through their balance before you make judgements on how effective CH is.
I agree with you here, we just went early on the schedule andthe other classes will eventually catch up with us.
The issue is the combat revamp is still months away, CH are hurting now. I don't know what the solution is here apart from waiting it out, but in the mean time, even old MCH are leaving the profession. Maybe that's a "good thing" to a lot of people (the Pet Wars/Poke-mon posters) but, and this is my opinion only,I don't see that as healthy for the profession.
Time will tell I guess, let's just hope there are more than a handful of CH left when the dust settles...
good information in this post 
on both sides...i am a Master TKA and a master CH. the tka can take most things on in the game with out the pets (even tho he is a wookiee) however i do love my pets for soloing night sisters. a good BE pet can be huge in a long battle with a 50k ham monster.
I dont think we have been nerfed too much since the 2 graul mauler days tho. i have 2 BE pets that are efectively the same. i think the real problem is there is no need for us any more. a tka with armor is way better at tanking than a pet or 2 pets. and they are smarter too...
What are pets good for? that is my question. what can a pet do that a master TKA or a fencer or a swordsman cant? i think the answer is nothing. the tka is better on damage dealing, on tanking abillity, on intelligence. The only reason i am still a CH is because i think combat stacking should be changed so i dont do it. doctor probably makes a lot more sense, but i just cant bear to destroy all of my pets.
well i guess we are a broken class now. but really, what should CHs be good for? obviously not meat shields, that is what a brawler is for. not damage, that is what a brawler or commando is good for. maybe versitillity, but i dont see how pets are any more versitile than a swordsman. i guess they are just not made to be in SWG...it might be good to just get rid of CHs forever, better to have no CHs than broken CHs that wont be fixed because they dont want us in the game.
Meroc,
Definitely respect your opinion there and I do understand where you are coming from. I've always beena patient person though so I'm willing to wait out the changes. CH is something I've wanted to be since the devs announced the profession would be in the game and I will be one until the profession no longer exists. I just happen to think that time will be when they close down that last server several years down the road.
By the way, Nice job on the BE calc. You get mega props for that one!
-Bochuu
Basically, I stood outside Coronet Starport the other day while an MCH tried to give his pets away. It was during peak time and he didn't find a single home for any of them (and these were freepets mind you, he wasn't asking for anything beyond a good home).
Since then I've noticed that there are not a lot of creatures "out and about" in SWG lately, which is odd as there are always a lot creaturesaround in all the SW's movies. It seems ironic that in their pursuit of "Star Warseyness" profession wisethey have made the game less like the movies...
But the final thing that clinched the issuefor me, was a BE complaning that he couldn't sell a crate of Tame tissue for 14k. No one wanted it. (Edit: This issue has also been brought up on these boards http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=161788).
People spout all kinds of things on these boards, but the real indicator is whats happening in the game. I'm sure a dozen or so people on the boards would say they'd have taken the tissues, but they wern't there in the game at the time and they didn't take them.
I love CH, I'll probably be one till the end unless I finally give up and go Doc, but people that say there isn't a problem and everything is "fine and dandy in Handler Land" mustn'tbe very aware ofother things happening around them in game (thats more directed at the post below yours than at you WWJD).
I know TH and the Devs are very busy people, but if we don't voice our opinion then they won'tknow there is an issue. With the number of old time CH's leaving the profession, not just "l33t d3wd5", you don't need to bein Mensato realise that something isn't quite right (and I don't mean that to be insulting). Sit around a bit where thereare a lot of players and think about it...
WWJD wrote:
Meroc,
Definitely respect your opinion there and I do understand where you are coming from. I've always beena patient person though so I'm willing to wait out the changes. CH is something I've wanted to be since the devs announced the profession would be in the game and I will be one until the profession no longer exists. I just happen to think that time will be when they close down that last server several years down the road.
By the way, Nice job on the BE calc. You get mega props for that one!
-Bochuu
Message Edited by meroc on 02-22-2004 12:47 PM
Inline.
Verena wrote:
These same old posts are getting old.
TH is working his butt off but I'm sure you would do it 100% better.
I never said TH didn't, doesn'tor wont, work his butt off. Get your facts straight.
Ever concidered that the reason he is making fun of you is cause you're a bunch of spoiled cry babies. Noone says you can only master CH and nothing else. With only a small amount of points spend MCH is a hybrid profession. I'm a Pistoleer/CH on Eclipse and a Fencer/CH on Chimaera. Stop crying about "we take 3-5 times longer to do a mission". Just listen to yourself, you think you'll ever make any impact if you cry about stuff like this?
There is no reason/excuse forsomeone in TH's position to "make fun" of any class. It also shows how childish you are if you think making a valid complaintmakes us "a bunch of spoiled cry babies".Consider that next time you phone your parents power/phone company about a service issue and they tell you to "Quitcrying you baby"...
There's nothing wrong with this class. It works fine. MCH doesn't take 250 points, there's a lot of room for other profs next to it. I understand we have issues but sorry to break it to you but the other 33 profs have issues as well. Yes, that's right.I'm a player that has been playing SWG since day 2 who is satisfied with the class and all the "nerfs" were called for IMO.
"There's nothing wrong with this class", "I understand we have issues". Make your mind up...
1 star me all you want but the fact is CH is still a very powerfull profession. I've come from the days where 3 Rancors could be called at once and have seen every nerf hit this profession. Golden rule of MMORPG's. Players will always ask for more, give them a finger and they'll ask for the hand.
One star you for expressing your opinion? I started this thread to get feedback from other CH on these issues, I'm not about to one start you just because I don't agree with your views.
"CH is still a very powerfull profession". In compared to what? Chef? Tailor?
Can you ever be satisfied?
Actually, yes I can. I was pretty close a few publishes back when mostly everything worked apart from SA's.
Every freakin change is a nerf and if another profession gets attentionthen "CH is left out in the cold".
There's a reason people/devs are making fun of you all. Take the time to read this thread and you'll understand.
People needa reasonto act childishly?Considering your post boils down to "nah, nah, you cry babies deserve it", I'd expext your an expert in that arena and bow to your greater knowledge of the subject.
/bow2
I am a great fan of 'conspiracy theories' (that Mel Gibson movie was pretty good btw..). Therefore, I am going to go out on a limb and throw out a wild 'theory' regarding what seems to be an overt and concerted effort to affect the CH profession.
As an interesting observation, you might consider the Droid Engineer situation. TH and company suggested a new Droid Commander (DC)profession to mirror the duality of the CH/BE professions. In other words, they would basically duplicate the creator/user scenario in the droid world with a DE/DC. The devs were ready to roll with this. So great was the outcry from the DE community that SoE actually backed off their intended release of this new profession. The devs were greatly conflicted on this. The DEcommunity refused to even consider the possibility of creating yet another CH type profession.
My point is that somehow I feel that this may be a link in the recent incremental decline of support for the CH class. Are they setting up a mechanism where they might be able to translate a weakened CH profession into a 'Handler' profession where you could 'handle/command' either Creatures or Enhanced Droids? As the next two patches play out, lets keep a close eye on what they continue to do to the CH profession. Perhaps we can gain more clues on how they will get this new handler/enhanced droid code build into the game. Stay tuned to both the CH and DE forums....itpromises to be very entertaining.
Verena wrote:These same old posts are getting old.TH is working his butt off but I'm sure you would do it 100% better.Ever concidered that the reason he is making fun of you is cause you're a bunch of spoiled cry babies. Noone says you can only master CH and nothing else. With only a small amount of points spend MCH is a hybrid profession.
Ahem
Actually according to the manual CH is a ELITE profession. Hybrid professions are supposed to be stronger a la BH and commando.
I think the point many people are trying to make by whineing is we went from the strongest elite combat profession to the weakest. I slowly have begun to master rifleman (cause I enjoy that too) and as I get further and further in rifleman I use my pets less and less.
I read the combat screen as a comparison and as a 3/0/0/2 rifleman I do more damage per second than my 2 pets. with my t21 and headshot 3 I have hit for asmuch as 3K worth of damage in 1 shot. my pets do about 200-300 each (max total is 600).
Why is >1/2 an elite profession stronger than a master elite profession.
The Devs may never know
darknacht wrote:I am a great fan of 'conspiracy theories' (that Mel Gibson movie was pretty good btw..). Therefore, I am going to go out on a limb and throw out a wild 'theory' regarding what seems to be an overt and concerted effort to affect the CH profession.
As an interesting observation, you might consider the Droid Engineer situation. TH and company suggested a new Droid Commander (DC)profession to mirror the duality of the CH/BE professions. In other words, they would basically duplicate the creator/user scenario in the droid world with a DE/DC. The devs were ready to roll with this. So great was the outcry from the DE community that SoE actually backed off their intended release of this new profession. The devs were greatly conflicted on this. The DEcommunity refused to even consider the possibility of creating yet another CH type profession.
My point is that somehow I feel that this may be a link in the recent incremental decline of support for the CH class. Are they setting up a mechanism where they might be able to translate a weakened CH profession into a 'Handler' profession where you could 'handle/command' either Creatures or Enhanced Droids? As the next two patches play out, lets keep a close eye on what they continue to do to the CH profession. Perhaps we can gain more clues on how they will get this new handler/enhanced droid code build into the game. Stay tuned to both the CH and DE forums....itpromises to be very entertaining.
ummmmmm...........................................................................
ya know this bears watching, and I might not mind a combined DC/CH profession provided they do it right and not kill off the CH part.
Why don't you try this test:
(1) Usingtwo CL35 armored pets, and your rifleman skills, attack a Piket lair, first sending out your pets, then firing your rifle from 60 meters out. Examine your combat log and record how much damage the Pikets did to you.
(2) Using no pets at all, stand 60 meters from the lair and use your rifleman skills to attack the Pikets. Examine your combat log and record how much damage the Pikets did to you.
In Test 1, you will take ZERO damage. In Test 2, you will either be nearly dead, or dead.
This is the advantage of the CH class.
But then again, you're probably one of the incompetent CHs who can't even make 20k credits an hour running missions.
taloncard wrote:
Ahem
Actually according to the manual CH is a ELITE profession. Hybrid professions are supposed to be stronger a la BH and commando.
I think the point many people are trying to make by whineing is we went from the strongest elite combat profession to the weakest. I slowly have begun to master rifleman (cause I enjoy that too) and as I get further and further in rifleman I use my pets less and less.
I read the combat screen as a comparison and as a 3/0/0/2 rifleman I do more damage per second than my 2 pets. with my t21 and headshot 3 I have hit for asmuch as 3K worth of damage in 1 shot. my pets do about 200-300 each (max total is 600).
Why is >1/2 an elite profession stronger than a master elite profession.
The Devs may never know
Denezib,
I like how you troll, it has style and flair. But it also shows how stupid you really are. For instance, given the view that TH stated "a pet should be like grouping with another Player". It would be really stupid for me to take damage. You show yourself how clueless that statement is when Riflemen have no real melee damage modifiers. Why would a rifleman group with someone who let him take damage, pet or otherwise?
Denezib, I truly believe you are Blunderheart come here to justify what ever stupid, idiotic justification you have for your hate towards CH. You have not stated one rational thing that leads me to believe you are even a CH.
Test 1) You hit /tellpet attack. Pet attacks and starts to run. You use /tellpet follow. Pet follows back. You hit /tellpet attack again. Pet does not keep agro. You have no defenses because you are CH/Rifleman. You wake in clone center.
Test 2) You have no pet to rely on so you use Conceal Shot. /mindshot. Hit peace. Run 100m. Wait a few minutes. Go back and do over. No damage because Snipers work solo. They use stealth and tactics.
Next on the agenda. Since you know nothing, I do not want to see you talk to us real CH in any demeaning manner. Go troll somewhere else. Taloncard is one of the finest CH's I know in game. His expertise has been very valuable to me.
Denezib, I am glad your mommy bought this game for you at Xmas. When you grow up and play the class maybe you can come back and talk to the grownups. Go back to the kiddie table please.