Creature Handler Archive

Thread: Do the Devs want CH to go away?

meroc
Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:21 am
#1


It seems obvious to me that CH is the "red headed step child" of SWG.



Just to put this into context, I don't make a habit of flaming Devs.


I know TH has a tough job. He's not just the "Voice of the People", he's the "red flag" to the "bull" that is every angry/upset customer. Heusually has the patience of a saint and I give him credit for what he DOES do right (which is a fair bit if your honest about it). IMHO though, he let's CH down when it comes to representing us. When CH are hurting, he's usually one of the third or fourth posters down insulting us with outdated and ill informed "poke"comments.



And is it any wonder CH's are hurting?


1.TH callsus "poke-mon" every time hementions the class. How can anyone have any confidence that anyonethat calls usthat is serious when they say they have the best interest's of the class in mind?


2. The "glory days" are gone but everyone still thinkswe have the same powerwe did back then. CH suck at PvP (worse than suck, we really are a joke at it if we don't have a "real job") and we take 3-5 times longer to do a mission than a "real" combat class (I know, we're a "support" class. Who decided that? Why AREN'T we a combat class? If we're supposed to be a "tank" class, why do our pets run away and damage dealing combat classesmake better tanks than we do?). The hybrid/dabblers that gave CH such a bad name to begin with have dumpedCH and moved on to Doctor, Fencer and other classes and CH alone can't "support" squat (try getting that last slot in a group if a Fencer, TKA or even a Pikeman is looking....).


3. TH doesn't acknowledge that the exploits that have been fixed make the 30 second delay on "camp free calling" a joke. Pets alreadycan't be called in combat or stored for 60 seconds after combat. How would a Commando or BH feel if he/she couldn't draw a weapon for 30 seconds and not at all if the combat has already started?IfTH, the "Voice of the People", doesn't know the class well enough to know this, then once again, how can a member of that class have any confidence that their class is being looked after and represented fairly? The conespondent seems to have a good handle on it, but as one voice in 30+ he doesn't seem to get much "air time" or worse, is ignored because we had recent "fixing".


4. With the Droid Commander and Combat droids coming, the CH class will all but disappear. The DCclass will be balanced for current content and will probably be "extra good" cause it will be in the lime light and flavour of the month. This in my mind is as big an issue asthe rest. If the Devs didn't/don't want CH as a class, they should just have the guts to say so and give CH's an oppertunity to find another class/path that suits them beforeintoducingthe DC...


If the Devs have any sense they'd make "Droid Commander" one tree off a "Commander" class and "Creature Handler" wouldbe another tree in that class, otherwise CH will just end up as a footnote to the history ofSWG,witha handful of diehards clinging on to a class that is beyond it's "best before" and is only any good for taming rares that no body wants...


Thunderheart, I give you credit where it's due, you've had a tremendous positive impact on this game. But the "turn arounds fair play" to that is I think you are not doing a very good job in regards to Creature Handlers, the people and the class.


Please stop the "poke"insults,try playing the class from the ground up and consider a "Commander" class that takes in all NPCCreature/Droid handling.


Failing that,please at least stop the "poke" insults.


(Edit: Two typos)

Message Edited by meroc on 02-19-2004 12:12 AM



Meroc

Taipan's Pet's and Bio Tissues, Anchorhead, Tatooine 430 -5000, Ahazi
Master Bio Engineer, Master Creature Handler, Part time Pistoleer.
BECalc 2.0, the Clone and Tissue Pricing tool for Bio Engineers
Version 1.x mirrored on SWG Warcry
Aenedor
Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:50 am
#2

No, I have to take issue, Rangers are in fact the red headed step child.



Aenedor Tru'shot
Elder Ranger
Imperial Medic - Bringing Healing and Order to the Galaxy.
EccoTon
Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:00 am
#3

Nice postI have been CH since day one and still am 8 or 9 months later. To answer your question "Do the Devs want CH to "go away"?" read your own post. The answer is: YES!


Ecco Ton


GreenStok
Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:56 am
#4

Meroc, that was really a good post.


/agreed





______________________________
______________________________
GreenStok, Master Bio Engineer, proprieter of Green Acres
Shop on Lowca server, Naboo, Theed
/waypoint -5430 3417
Also on Dantooine -595 2891
Kharrissa
Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:07 am
#5

My answer to that question = No.


They are just having a hard time deciding on a design and properly implementing it.


A really hard time.


CWEGuru
Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:15 am
#6





Yes it is obviously true the CH profession is on it's way out. I believe it is intentional.


Maybe it could stay as a novelty profession, if so please give us back at least half our skill points. Give us back half our CH skill points anyway since the CH profession is practically useless even when it is working.


I am a level 4/4/3/4 CH and till the assassination of the CH profession last week was a 3/4/3/4 Pistoleer. Now I am still a 4/4/3/4 CH (but haven't been able to use my pets) and have dropped most of Pistoleer and been playing as a 2/2/2/2 TK.


Why can I now kill MOBs alone easily that I couldn't before even with my pets?


I am not crying to nerf the TK especially now that I am one. But make the other professions have power too. A CH, Pistoleer with a Rancor and stopping shot/Double tap shouldn't be less powerful than a 2/2/2/2 TK.


Even when CH is working it is little more than a novelty profession.


Give us back some of our skill points so we can keep the profession for the novelty of pulling a large animal from our pants and still have the skill points to take up some useful professions.


Don't get me wrong I love the CH profession but can't understand why it has been so handicapped (someone in power hates CH in my opinion).


I have only played like 6 weeks can someone more experienced than me tell me was CH ever powerful enough to be competitive?


I was anticipating this game starting in 2002 but waited till Jan 2004 to buy it, thinking all the issues must be fixed by now. It is ridiculous to still have so many problems this long after release. Fix the game. Fix it now. If you don't have the people with the ability to fix the issues fire them and hire competent programmers. I manage programmers for a living and have had to fire dozens of incompetent ones in the last few years.


HELLO is anyone there? NO? Didn't think so.

WookieOgre
Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:01 am
#7

Devs may have convinced themselves that they are just trying to reach a balance, when in fact they are really trying to get people out of this profession. No matter what the devs do, they will always have the problem of pets tanking too good. So how do you solve that, make everything kite your pet and blame it on them being cowards, lol. But really, I know once a Profession reaches a certain % of the population its nerfing time. Only problem is, CH has almost no one left from the old days and yet they are still nerfing. Conclusion, CH is doomed.


I'm not saying conspiracy, what I'm saying is devs saw CH as overpowered from the begining of the game and didnt know what to do. Instead of telling everone the profession is being dropped from the game, they nerf it every patch to the point only the hardcore CH's that are in it for taming will stay. CH has gone from a good Combat Profession, to a Support Profession, to what we have now. I would like them to define what we have now.


Zarniwooop
Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:39 pm
#8

If it's true that TH has EVER called us the "Pokemon class"... he needs to be removed as correspondant this second. At least get someone that doesn't view us as a joke to begin with.



I don't know that he has. I never saw it. But, the amount of crap that this class has been through I think demands someone that's on our side somewhat.


Templar1865
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:09 pm
#9

Good post. The devs go on ad nauseum about game balance, yet they can't seem to acheive it themselves. There was a point early on when CH was out of balance, and the fact that so many people were taking the class and roaming around with their pets made the game less Star-Warsy. But instead of fixing things, bringing them in line with the rest of the professions, they used a chainsaw instead of a scalpel and made a lot of angry players in the process.


CH is not, IMO, a "support class." CH is a combat class. Until they give us a set of commands, skills, and abilities that have use outside of combat, we're a combat class. We should be just as competent as any other combat class. As far as the star-warsyness argument goes, there were creature handlers in the original trilogy as well as the prequels, and in the expanded universe in the novel. It's not CH's fault that the devs screwed droids up--that's the whole reason there were (and still are, here in February) more animals around than droids.


I think the very frustrating thing is some of the most important fixes seem so obvious. The running creatures problem was known on TC, yet it was either ignored or chalked up to "cowardly" creatures.


Make test center a place where you can dupe your character. If I wanted to test out CH issues on TC, I'd have to go through all the pre-requisites in Scout before I can even start testing CH changes. By that time, the publish goes live.


CH commands should actually work, consistently (or at least according to a set and well-communicated algorithm).


I shouldn't get more Pistoleer experience (comparatively) for killing a creature than I do creature handler experience (2000+ pistoleer points and 1 CH point. Where is the sense in that?)


CHs should be able to: teach pets utility commands that have non-combat uses (hunting commands to assist rangers, for example. Entertainer trick commands that help dancers/musicians put on their shows), teach pets unique combat commands that make them more unique and interesting (redesign the command system to give command points versus standard "when you get this box you get this command." Then CHs can customize their creatures for their play style. I might not teach a pet to guard, do formations, or befriend, but I can tell it to use its ranged attack). CHs should be able to domesticate creatures to use as furniture/display items/renewable creature resources.


There's still huge potential in the CH class, even without going back to the days of novices calling rancors. My concern is that the devs are so focused on the SE that they don't have the resources to fix the half-baked world we're paying $15.00 a month for.
WWJD
Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:06 pm
#10






meroc wrote:


It seems obvious to me that CH is the "red headed step child" of SWG.



Just to put this into context, I don't make a habit of flaming Devs.


I know TH has a tough job. He's not just the "Voice of the People", he's the "red flag" to the "bull" that is every angry/upset customer. Heusually has the patience of a saint and I give him credit for what he DOES do right (which is a fair bit if your honest about it). IMHO though, he let's CH down when it comes to representing us. When CH are hurting, he's usually one of the third or fourth posters down insulting us with outdated and ill informed "poke"comments.



And is it any wonder CH's are hurting?


1.TH callsus "poke-mon" every time hementions the class. How can anyone have any confidence that anyonethat calls usthat is serious when they say they have the best interest's of the class in mind?

Ok, I get tired of seeing this. He never actually called us "poke-mon". He did refer to "poke-mon" like tactics which you hopefully should understand would take place given half the chance.


2. The "glory days" are gone but everyone still thinkswe have the same powerwe did back then. CH suck at PvP (worse than suck, we really are a joke at it if we don't have a "real job") and we take 3-5 times longer to do a mission than a "real" combat class (I know, we're a "support" class. Who decided that? Why AREN'T we a combat class? If we're supposed to be a "tank" class, why do our pets run away and damage dealing combat classesmake better tanks than we do?). The hybrid/dabblers that gave CH such a bad name to begin with have dumpedCH and moved on to Doctor, Fencer and other classes and CH alone can't "support" squat (try getting that last slot in a group if a Fencer, TKA or even a Pikeman is looking....).


Ok...I get tired of hearing this one too. If you are a support class, it's your choice because this is a class-less game. Your argument would hold true if you didn't have other skillpoints to invest but the fact remains the mastering CH still allows you to master another elite combat profession. I chose to Master BE along with CH so I gave up some combat ability to do so...the fact remains that the choice is yours.


3. TH doesn't acknowledge that the exploits that have been fixed make the 30 second delay on "camp free calling" a joke. Pets alreadycan't be called in combat or stored for 60 seconds after combat. How would a Commando or BH feel if he/she couldn't draw a weapon for 30 seconds and not at all if the combat has already started?IfTH, the "Voice of the People", doesn't know the class well enough to know this, then once again, how can a member of that class have any confidence that their class is being looked after and represented fairly? The conespondent seems to have a good handle on it, but as one voice in 30+ he doesn't seem to get much "air time" or worse, is ignored because we had recent "fixing".


30 seconds is no big deal to me so either way it goes, it won't affect my play style. If you are into pvp, then this could impact you but I doubt there are many people pvping who just use pets as their weapon.


4. With the Droid Commander and Combat droids coming, the CH class will all but disappear. The DCclass will be balanced for current content and will probably be "extra good" cause it will be in the lime light and flavour of the month. This in my mind is as big an issue asthe rest. If the Devs didn't/don't want CH as a class, they should just have the guts to say so and give CH's an oppertunity to find another class/path that suits them beforeintoducingthe DC...


Maybe you don't read up on the DE forum but this idea has been scrapped for now. There will not be a new Droid Commander profession (at least not in the immediate future).


If the Devs have any sense they'd make "Droid Commander" one tree off a "Commander" class and "Creature Handler" wouldbe another tree in that class, otherwise CH will just end up as a footnote to the history ofSWG,witha handful of diehards clinging on to a class that is beyond it's "best before" and is only any good for taming rares that no body wants...


Thunderheart, I give you credit where it's due, you've had a tremendous positive impact on this game. But the "turn arounds fair play" to that is I think you are not doing a very good job in regards to Creature Handlers, the people and the class.


Please stop the "poke"insults,try playing the class from the ground up and consider a "Commander" class that takes in all NPCCreature/Droid handling.


Failing that,please at least stop the "poke" insults.


(Edit: Two typos)

Message Edited by meroc on 02-19-2004 12:12 AM




I briefly addressed your points above but there are also some additional thinks to take into consideration. If you remember correctly, the devs said that when the initial creature changes went in, it would seem like some of the other combat types seemed more powerful. This would be the case until the final balancing went in. If you've noticed, some of these classes have begun to feel that effect as their effective power has been brought back in line. You only feel this pain because we were the first but it was a necessary first because creatures impact a large part of this game. Wait until all the combat classes have gone through their balance before you make judgements on how effective CH is.


-Bochuu





Pimpin' pets since a long time ago in a galaxy far far away...
SioBabble
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:17 am
#11

The problem with labeling us the "po-ke-mon" class is that this entire game is nothing but magic pockets, out of which we pull pistols, power hammers, speeders, creature pets, droids, houses, flamethrowers, force crystals, entire wardrobes, boxes of thousands of units of milk, mineral, hide, bone, flowers, wheat, fiberplast, etc ad nauseum.


So the po-ke-mon thing is pure bigotry...displaced displeasure for the artificiallity of the game environment onto one group of players.






Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


Seiryuu
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:26 am
#12

Zarni, he has done it on at least two occassions.

Additional, after asking what our problems were with this patch, he still hadn't figured out allour pets were running from every fight.



-----
Visit www.swgcreatures.com for all your creature needs.
Tell 'em Lantyssa sent you!

Math got you down? Need a tissue? Try my Chef and Tailor Tissue Calculators!

Looking for a special? Try this Excel spreadsheet on Special Abilities.
Aakhperkare
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:56 am
#13






SioBabble wrote:

The problem with labeling us the "po-ke-mon" class is that this entire game is nothing but magic pockets, out of which we pull pistols, power hammers, speeders, creature pets, droids, houses, flamethrowers, force crystals, entire wardrobes, boxes of thousands of units of milk, mineral, hide, bone, flowers, wheat, fiberplast, etc ad nauseum.


So the po-ke-mon thing is pure bigotry...displaced displeasure for the artificiallity of the game environment onto one group of players.








Exactly...
Page 1 of 5
Previous Next