Creature Handler Archive

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Anarrion wrote:

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Hordakka wrote:
The only flaw I see in this is that the one acknowledgment of pin attack is from a giant angler and anglers have thick skin L2

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Has that been verified? I'm suspicious.

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No one siighting.

However I have gotten both L2 and L3 skills from all named anglers (Lurking, reclusinve, giant)

It could be that some mobs have 2 sets of abilities of noth level 2 and 3.

Also Boar wolves have both L2 and L3 abilities

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Scoooter wrote:

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Anarrion wrote:

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Hordakka wrote:
The only flaw I see in this is that the one acknowledgment of pin attack is from a giant angler and anglers have thick skin L2

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Has that been verified? I'm suspicious.

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No one siighting.

However I have gotten both L2 and L3 skills from all named anglers (Lurking, reclusinve, giant)

It could be that some mobs have 2 sets of abilities of noth level 2 and 3.

Also Boar wolves have both L2 and L3 abilities

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Have you added these to ravingbanth's Pet Specials thread? Would be greatly appreciated.

Time for me to add my 2 cents.

What i thought were errors in the sticky could just in fact be proof of another set of groupings or sub-groupings if you will. From what I can gather there are 9 sets of ability groupings total and some creatures have appeared in completely different groups. This leads me to belive that there are different combinations of ability groupings for example (This is just an example and probably has no bearing on actual in game mechanics)

Well say pet X falls into the following group

Fleet Footed, Hamstring

Pet Y falls into the following group

Marring Storm, Imperiling Feint, Precision Strike

Pet Z falls into the following group

Bleeding Attack, Panicked Rage, Frenzied Blitz

Ok everyone follow me so far? We have 3 pets each in different ability groups which seems to be the case given current data. But then we come across pet A that seems to have a chance to know the following special attacks

Hamstring, Bleeding Attack, Imperiling Feint

which completely contradicts current data. So what ifit is simply part of a sub group composed of the other 3 groups?

I hope that wasnt to hard to follow.

I don't quite understand these groupings but being a new CH and only collecting on my home worlds (Talus/Corellia) I can confirm that Beastly Con and Vig Health are both very common on humbabas (standard humbabas). I pulled each one 6 and 8 times respectively. Does this mean that technically there should be a third special that humbabas carry? If I find it, I'll let you all know

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Seiryuu wrote:
I agree with Joker there might be other groupings. (I also think it is possible that creatures might still have two special slots, with these groupings taking up one slot.)

These were the obvious ones from the data we have seen, but finding others would not surprise me, especially as more high-end creatures are tamed.

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I agree with Joker there might be other groupings. (I also think it is possible that creatures might still have two special slots, with these groupings taking up one slot.)

These were the obvious ones from the data we have seen, but finding others would not surprise me, especially as more high-end creatures are tamed.

I have heard some people mention that some specials simply do not exist for L3. Using the list on the specials thread, Eye Gouge, Fleet-Footed, Hamstring, Intimidating Attack, Knockdown, and Staggering Attack. Would those account for any of the oddities you are seeing?

I've gone through the groupings on swgcreatures. There were six creatures that violated these groupings (italicies indicate violation of group theory):
Giant Pharple - Aggression, Self-Sacrifice, Knockdown
Thune Herd Leader - Beastly Constitution, Vigorous Health, Panicked Rage
Greater Sludge Panther - Combat Agility, Hunted Withrdrawl, Frenzied Blitz
Mantigrue Screecher - Frenzied Bltiz, ?, Combat Agility
Mature Reptilian Flier - Self-Sacrifice, ?, Fleet-Footed
Blushing Jax - Stunning Attack, ?, Lightning Reflexes

Of course there are incomplete creatures. The specials could also be wrong due to an accidental click (a few are one slot off). So far, the trend seems to be holding. I cannot verify the validity of any of these.

In your list (very nice, btw), how much is what you saw with your own eyes and how much is what you have incorperated from others? Of the latter, did you take everything listed or only those that have repeated sightings? It's not that I want to disbelieve what people are reporting, but having "Ikopi - Guarded Stance (x14)" is more compelling than "Giant Angler - Pinning Attack (x1)". Your list doesn't tell us anything about frequency so we have no consistent way of verifying the data [I'll note that swgcreatures lacks this as well at the moment].

From your list, the possible problem critters (italicies indicate violation of group theory):
Grand Wrix - Combat Agility, Frenzied Assault, Hunted Withdrawl, Panicked Rage
Krabhu - Eye Gouge, Knockdown Attack, Staggering Attack(x2), Aggression
Female Plains Tusk Cat - Eye Gouge, Staggering Attack, Fleet Footedness
Mountain Murra - Intimidating Attack, Self Sacrifice, Staggering Attack
Murra - Aggression, Intimidating Attack, Self Sacrifice, Bleeding Attack
Piket Plains Walker - Aggression, Intimidating Attack, Self Sacrifice, Beastly Constitution
Mature Reptillian Flier - Aggression, Self Sacrifice, Frenzied Blitz
Wrix - Imperiling Feint, Marring Storm, Precision Strike, Staggering Attack
Savage Quenker - Marring Storm, Precision Strike, Knockdown Attack
Grassland Voritor Tracker - Frenzied Blitz, Panicked Rage, Eye Gouge
Huurton Huntress - Bleeding Attack, Frenzied Blitz, Aggression
Slinking Voritor Hunter - Bleeding Attack, Frenzied Blitz, Panicked Rage, Frenzied Assault
Narglatch Cub,Naboo - Bleeding Attack, Panicked Rage, Imperiling Feint
Minor Sludge Panther - Frenzied Blitz, Panicked Rage, Beastly Constitution
Arachne Warrior,Endor - Guarded Stance, Lightning Reflexes, Defensive Agility
Desert Gurreck Charger - Fleet Footedness, Hamstring Attack, Eye Gouge
Giant Gackel Bat - Fleet Footedness, Hamstring Attack, Knockdown Attack

The rest as best I could tell (my eyes hate me now), matched. Of these, some have a similar species that does have one of the other proposed groupings and it might be a simple mistake in listing. Maybe things really do come in pairs, however I would expect a lot more groups of four, and only the Grand Wrix, Khrabu, Slinking Voritor Hunter and Piket Plains Walker are listed with four. Given these anomolies, can anyone see a way to make consistant pairs of abilities?

Even with this slightly larget list, the rest match the groupings!

That they may have been individually assigned may be true. If that is the case, it seems they followed a fairly rigorous protocol in assigning abilities. Anything that violates it is either special and rare or a mistake.

Message Edited by Seiryuu on 09-08-2005 04:32 PM

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Seiryuu wrote:
I have heard some people mention that some specials simply do not exist for L3. Using the list on the specials thread, Eye Gouge, Fleet-Footed, Hamstring, Intimidating Attack, Knockdown, and Staggering Attack. Would those account for any of the oddities you are seeing?

I've gone through the groupings on swgcreatures. There were six creatures that violated these groupings (italicies indicate violation of group theory):
Giant Pharple - Aggression, Self-Sacrifice, Knockdown
Thune Herd Leader - Beastly Constitution, Vigorous Health, Panicked Rage
Greater Sludge Panther - Combat Agility, Hunted Withrdrawl, Frenzied Blitz
Mantigrue Screecher - Frenzied Bltiz, ?, Combat Agility
Mature Reptilian Flier - Self-Sacrifice, ?, Fleet-Footed
Blushing Jax - Stunning Attack, ?, Lightning Reflexes

Of course there are incomplete creatures. The specials could also be wrong due to an accidental click (a few are one slot off). So far, the trend seems to be holding. I cannot verify the validity of any of these.

In your list (very nice, btw), how much is what you saw with your own eyes and how much is what you have incorperated from others? Of the latter, did you take everything listed or only those that have repeated sightings? It's not that I want to disbelieve what people are reporting, but having "Ikopi - Guarded Stance (x14)" is more compelling than "Giant Angler - Pinning Attack (x1)". Your list doesn't tell us anything about frequency so we have no consistent way of verifying the data [I'll note that swgcreatures lacks this as well at the moment].

From your list, the possible problem critters (italicies indicate violation of group theory):
Grand Wrix - Combat Agility, Frenzied Assault, Hunted Withdrawl, Panicked Rage
Krabhu - Eye Gouge, Knockdown Attack, Staggering Attack(x2), Aggression
Female Plains Tusk Cat - Eye Gouge, Staggering Attack, Fleet Footedness
Mountain Murra - Intimidating Attack, Self Sacrifice, Staggering Attack
Murra - Aggression, Intimidating Attack, Self Sacrifice, Bleeding Attack
Piket Plains Walker - Aggression, Intimidating Attack, Self Sacrifice, Beastly Constitution
Mature Reptillian Flier - Aggression, Self Sacrifice, Frenzied Blitz
Wrix - Imperiling Feint, Marring Storm, Precision Strike, Staggering Attack
Savage Quenker - Marring Storm, Precision Strike, Knockdown Attack
Grassland Voritor Tracker - Frenzied Blitz, Panicked Rage, Eye Gouge
Huurton Huntress - Bleeding Attack, Frenzied Blitz, Aggression
Slinking Voritor Hunter - Bleeding Attack, Frenzied Blitz, Panicked Rage, Frenzied Assault
Narglatch Cub,Naboo - Bleeding Attack, Panicked Rage, Imperiling Feint
Minor Sludge Panther - Frenzied Blitz, Panicked Rage, Beastly Constitution
Arachne Warrior,Endor - Guarded Stance, Lightning Reflexes, Defensive Agility
Desert Gurreck Charger - Fleet Footedness, Hamstring Attack, Eye Gouge
Giant Gackel Bat - Fleet Footedness, Hamstring Attack, Knockdown Attack

The rest as best I could tell (my eyes hate me now), matched. Of these, some have a similar species that does have one of the other proposed groupings and it might be a simple mistake in listing. Maybe things really do come in pairs, however I would expect a lot more groups of four, and only the Grand Wrix, Khrabu, Slinking Voritor Hunter and Piket Plains Walker are listed with four. Given these anomolies, can anyone see a way to make consistant pairs of abilities?

Even with this slightly larget list, the rest match the groupings!

That they may have been individually assigned may be true. If that is the case, it seems they followed a fairly rigorous protocol in assigning abilities. Anything that violates it is either special and rare or a mistake.

Message Edited by Seiryuu on 09-08-2005 04:32 PM

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I think at best we dont have enough data to support a conclusion at this point. My gut feel is there are groupings just more of them, the data just does not confirm them.

With the exception of pinning all on my list have been confirmed by me or more than one post. Also I did ignore some where the planet was not obvious or specified. For example some people said they got something from a gualma and did not specify rori or naboo.

And no you cannot say that small list of problem critters are the only ones. There are far too many L2 and L3 critters that have no confirmed third special yet. The mature flier shows that. I finally got a third special on that and no intimidate , it was frenzied blitz.

I for one wish your groupings would be correct. However I do not see the data to support it especially in the L3 categories I think in the L2 and L3 catagoeris we are making too many assumptions on the groupings.

We need more data and for everyone to report what they get.

It really would not surprise me that new groupings exist, especially for the higher level ones. As I said in the other thread, this was initially built using mainly L1 creatures. It does hold true for many, many creatures and over all three levels though, so I'm happy with what we do have so far. We do need more data as you said.

That a mature reptilian flier may have a grouping of Aggression, Frenzied Blitz, and Self-Sacrifice because there is no Intimidate L3 is not really that surprising to me. I'm going to start looking into things that have no confirmed L3 that otherwise follow the pattern. Maybe some other pattern will develop.

I am going to take your base list then add columns for number of times I encounter the special. We all make mistakes (I know I've caught some of my own when writing stuff down), so if I have twenty instances of finding something I can be pretty sure it exists.

Might I suggest you start tracking occurances as well? You already have a good starting point and that will help weed out errors.

Message Edited by Scoooter on 09-08-2005 08:50 PM

For my own amusement I have imported your list into Excel, moved all creature information to one line, edited the few very obvious mistakes like duplicates and mispellings, then sorted it based on the speculative groupings.

Assuming any holes fit the groupings above, only 26 out of 380 creatures do not fit. These could be accurate or mistakes. I've marked them but I am not deleting anything from the sheet. Tomorrow or this weekend I am going to try and fill in any missing specials from swgcreatures data (and any pictures I haven't deleted) in a different color and see what happens. I'm sure there will still be holes and questions after that, but it looks pretty interesting none the less.

Once done, I'll post the XLS file somewhere for those interested in it.