Creature Handler Archive
Thread: We have our chance: Mounted Pet Enhancements thread!
Vertexon
Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:57 pm
#14
I definitely didn't intend to imply whether or not mounted combat is a part of the Combat Upgrade, Felis. The only information regarding Combat Upgrade is what has been publicly released by the Devs, so as yet unmentioned items shouldn't be inferred one way or the other.
What I had meant by "quick fixes" is that Tiggs specifically asked for examples of commands that could be allowed while mounted (a seemingly light development task compared to some of the more weightyfeature requests folks were listing). So I only meant to suggest that shaping your responses toward that end seems more likely to be of help on this particular occasion.
Vertexon
Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:18 pm
#15
Oh definitely, I'm sure getting those heavier requests out there can only be good. 
Just might want to preface them with a bulleted list of commands you'd like to see allowed on creature mounts when making your post (if you haven't already).
Just might want to preface them with a bulleted list of commands you'd like to see allowed on creature mounts when making your post (if you haven't already).
Mot-Irujam
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:10 pm
#16
If I might make a few suggestions?
Vert is right. As long as I can hit a hotkey and be dismounted and ready to take names in under 2 seconds, theres no real advantage to shooting from the back of my mount. However, lets look at the history of mounted combat. Combat mounts, through history, have their own unique attacks. War elephants could ram things, stomp things, and trample things. Horses? All kinds of kicks (High, low, front, back, etc), Biting, and ramming.
So, lets look at the basics of actual mounted combat, and list a few basic moves.
Kick (Front and back)
Stomp
Bite
Bodyslam
Trample
Mounted combat, to me, should be variations based on these basic moves. And, I think only CH should be allowed to get the full range of critter mounted combat. We tame animals. We train animals. We fight with animals. Animals are what we are about. No one else would know how to handle a (Live) animal the way we do. Non CH should require ANY mounted combat moves to be trained by a qualifiedCH, and they should be limited in what moves they can use.
Anyways, thats my 2 cents. Hope it helps.
Ekaw
Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:36 am
#17
I dont think there should be a difference between creature handlers and non ch mount users... Simply because I want a money maker.
raynedog wrote:
I'm amazed and outraged all at the same time. One one hand it's beyond words how great it is that they want to make mounts more viable, on the other hand, it seems like they are all for making no difference between a CH and a non CH mount users.
raynedog
Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:57 am
#18
Ekaw wrote:I dont think there should be a difference between creature handlers and non ch mount users... Simply because I want a money maker.
raynedog wrote:
I'm amazed and outraged all at the same time. One one hand it's beyond words how great it is that they want to make mounts more viable, on the other hand, it seems like they are all for making no difference between a CH and a non CH mount users.
It's not going to make you one extra credit..not one. If they add some weak combat for everyone on a mount then sure, the first week you'll sell a few mounts then after people get over it, all things go back to normal.
The only thing that will make mounts sell more is to make them faster, that's it.
Serious Mounted Combat should be a CH thing. You're saying there should be no diff between some who is a MASTER at Handling Creatures, and somone who is a Master TKA?
Ekaw
Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:14 am
#19
raynedog wrote:
Ekaw wrote:
I dont think there should be a difference between creature handlers and non ch mount users... Simply because I want a money maker.
raynedog wrote:
I'm amazed and outraged all at the same time. One one hand it's beyond words how great it is that they want to make mounts more viable, on the other hand, it seems like they are all for making no difference between a CH and a non CH mount users.
It's not going to make you one extra credit..not one. If they add some weak combat for everyone on a mount then sure, the first week you'll sell a few mounts then after people get over it, all things go back to normal.
The only thing that will make mounts sell more is to make them faster, that's it.
Serious Mounted Combat should be a CH thing. You're saying there should be no diff between some who is a MASTER at Handling Creatures, and somone who is a Master TKA?
Yes. That is what I am saying, you jsut wanna make them more useless to the masses? Why deny teh ability to ride a horse (which any fool can do) to the masses? If there are combat and defensive bonuses to riding a mount AND a little additional speed, they will certainly sell.
We have zero source of income now, I don't want any special perks, we have enough I do think. We say it all the time, this is the most rewarding profession in SWG. That can't be argued with. Now give us something to make a lil change with.
spreadsheet
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:49 pm
#20
I really think that the Prof specific saddles with enhancements and some specials available at perhaps a Master level would help greatly. Do I think we (C/H) should get more bonuses .... YES....We are the ones taming and training these creature....aren't we? Do I think other professions should get some of the perks...YES. Make mounted combat available to all, but at a high skill level perhaps only at a master skill level. With special mounted attacks being available, Trample, Charge, Kick, Bite. Give some stat bonuses to a rider, better defense, damage sharing, mounts can attack as well. But give greater benefits to a Master C/H. Say a 25% bonus as a MCH. I think it would make mounts an option again.
-Elder Medic-
spreadsheet
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:23 pm
#21
I agree. We have also talked about having a couple new mount types (cat, flyier) that a B/E would not be able to make.
Throw in some of the improvements we have mentioned in this thread and add a couple tameable mounts only and we might sell a couple more mounts. I would like these improvements for my mounts anyway even if I do not sell any more mounts.
Spazzers
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:24 pm
#22
I completely agree that the changes you're suggesting would make animals sellable again. I'm only correcting a statement you made that said you'd make money again. You may make money training all these new mounts but again I ask, is that what you really want?
Would it not be better if they implemented a multiplayer mount? They coulduse that big goofy elephant thing that no one ever buys now and turn it into a battle mount. They could throw in a variety of multiplayer mounts using the ronto and piket or a miriad of others. The driver must be a creature handler. The rider(s) can be any combat class and needs no creature handler skills. Their function is combat.
Some people will think the combat on animals is cool some people will think driving the animal so being a creature handler is cool. Everyone benefits.
Is that not a better idea? You won't make any more money either way but the battle mount sure sounds like a lot of fun to me.
spreadsheet
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:30 pm
#23
We have brought up group mounts before. I like the idea as do alot of other C/H. How about a Torton or Fambaa?
Other people in group would not be responsible for driving and thus could be just there for combat. We even thought about Shield generators being carried from these larger pets as seen in the movies.
Spazzers
Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:48 pm
#24
My galaxy forum, and the BE forum were tossing around pet armor. I am not an advocate of pet armor. In theory light armor on a CL10 mount gives the animal a little more resists than it would have otherwise. In practicality however, non-creature handlers are going to be throwing light armor on a CL10 with 60% kinetic and 10K health. If the uber CL10 doesn't upset creature handlers by itself just wait till people start putting armor on it.
I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I've been a master creature handler for over a year. I went through the nerfs with the rest of you. I just happen to be a bio-engineer first.
Think of all the possibilities before you toss around ideas. What sounds great in theory may actually hurt you in the long run. Be mindful of what you wish for. You may just get it.
Ekaw
Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:47 pm
#25
Spazzers wrote:
I completely agree that the changes you're suggesting would make animals sellable again. I'm only correcting a statement you made that said you'd make money again. You may make money training all these new mounts but again I ask, is that what you really want?
Would it not be better if they implemented a multiplayer mount? They coulduse that big goofy elephant thing that no one ever buys now and turn it into a battle mount. They could throw in a variety of multiplayer mounts using the ronto and piket or a miriad of others. The driver must be a creature handler. The rider(s) can be any combat class and needs no creature handler skills. Their function is combat.
Some people will think the combat on animals is cool some people will think driving the animal so being a creature handler is cool. Everyone benefits.
Is that not a better idea? You won't make any more money either way but the battle mount sure sounds like a lot of fun to me.
sellable = make money
And no, it is not a better idea. The things I am suggesting are needs, the things you are suggesting are wants. I want true benefits. Not that your idea is not fun, but people pay millions for +4 bleeding defense, or for +4 rifle accuracy. Now, not necessarily those skills, but others could be enhanced by riding a mount, +5 ranged defense would be a good one. Make you harder to hit while riding.
Not that there is anything wrong with your idea, it sounds kind of fun. But it is not a money maker. People would still go to their local bio engineer to buy a multiplaer pet, so they could come to us, to train it and have it mounted. So your point is?
All I am interested in is making pets USEFUL, not more fun. That was never my goal. There are plenty of fun things in the game that are not worth a darn. Take fireworks for example. Useless, but fun.
I hope you posted your idea, and I hope they like it. But it will never change how I feel that what I see is the best way to make mounts VIABLE again. What can make them compete with vehicles? A muliplayer mount sounds fun, for about five minutes to me. Then what use does it have?
Rare mounts could even have better defensive bonuses. Making them VERY pricy and desirable.
And again, in case you missed it:
"Why even go to a bio engineer? Come to your master creature handler for one stop shopping. They will not be able to command a BE pet to attack without paying the MCH to train it to attack, they will not be able to ride the be pet without their friendly MCH to train the pet as a mount.
Interdependancy is probably what you will see more of out of the devs in teh future, and well, we are interdependant with a BE unfortunately.
Also, last thing. Why woulf a mount buyer go to a BE, purchase a pet, wait a week to 1.5 weeks for it to grow large enough to be mountable when they can just get a full grown mount from the MCH?"
Message Edited by Ekaw on 02-02-2005 05:56 PM
raynedog
Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:58 pm
#26
heh, normally I try to be very open to a wide range of ideas and concepts but on Mounted Combat I'm going to choose to stick to my guns.
Anything beyond a basic attack for anyone besides CH and possibly Rangers is a mistake IMO. You're not going to sell more mounts, that's the bottom line. If they are going to add any real mounted combat that role should belong to the CH, and the Ch can decied if they want to mix that with TKA,or Swordsmen, or what ever.
When it comes to creatures in combat, CH should be the kings of creatures in combat, mounted or otherwise. I have a feeling that most of the players will get their way and we will see some weak form of mounted combat that everyone can do and CH will once again fade off into the shadows as they are taken out by someone on a creature mount.
I also have to agree that BE's are the ones who will see the income from any changes not you, you'll be the "can you tame this" guy. There are plenty of CH who tame for free, so what ever you charge won't be much because most players know they can get a creature tamed for almost free anyway.
You want a way to sell pets and make an income, that's what BE's are for, to sell pets and make an income. We are combat, not crafters. CH isn't broken because there isn't a steady flow of income, it's broken because of the problems we have in combat. An idea like the corral is nice because it lets players decied if they want to try to make an income as a CH or just tame and train there own pets for combat. I hear you when you say you want a steady source of income from your CH skills but I don't think there is much of anything they can do to make that happen. The only income you would see is a boom in sales the first week or so then you would be back to the same old thing and mounted combat will still be a joke.
So, if there is going to be REAL mounted combat allowed then CH should own it like no one else, besides possibly rangers. I'm in favor of an actual mounted combat system rather then some weak standard attacks that everyone can do and don't really help that much in combat. Besides, if they allow combat from a mount speeders can't be far behind and then where will you be? IMO anything that you allow from speeder, makes the same action pointless to do on a mount.
Give me a reason to fight mounted, and give that reason to CH.
Anything beyond a basic attack for anyone besides CH and possibly Rangers is a mistake IMO. You're not going to sell more mounts, that's the bottom line. If they are going to add any real mounted combat that role should belong to the CH, and the Ch can decied if they want to mix that with TKA,or Swordsmen, or what ever.
When it comes to creatures in combat, CH should be the kings of creatures in combat, mounted or otherwise. I have a feeling that most of the players will get their way and we will see some weak form of mounted combat that everyone can do and CH will once again fade off into the shadows as they are taken out by someone on a creature mount.
I also have to agree that BE's are the ones who will see the income from any changes not you, you'll be the "can you tame this" guy. There are plenty of CH who tame for free, so what ever you charge won't be much because most players know they can get a creature tamed for almost free anyway.
You want a way to sell pets and make an income, that's what BE's are for, to sell pets and make an income. We are combat, not crafters. CH isn't broken because there isn't a steady flow of income, it's broken because of the problems we have in combat. An idea like the corral is nice because it lets players decied if they want to try to make an income as a CH or just tame and train there own pets for combat. I hear you when you say you want a steady source of income from your CH skills but I don't think there is much of anything they can do to make that happen. The only income you would see is a boom in sales the first week or so then you would be back to the same old thing and mounted combat will still be a joke.
So, if there is going to be REAL mounted combat allowed then CH should own it like no one else, besides possibly rangers. I'm in favor of an actual mounted combat system rather then some weak standard attacks that everyone can do and don't really help that much in combat. Besides, if they allow combat from a mount speeders can't be far behind and then where will you be? IMO anything that you allow from speeder, makes the same action pointless to do on a mount.
Give me a reason to fight mounted, and give that reason to CH.