Creature Handler Archive

Focus Thread: Mounts

Get on over there and post... this could be big if they take it seriously and do more than just a few additional actions. I think the Creature Handler community could get an enormous benefit from mounted combat enhancements... I posted the following:

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- Improve combat from mount for certain professions. Master Creature Handlers should be able to use all specials as if they were on foot while mounted. There could be a "Mounted Combat" mod that is shared perhaps by scouts, rangers, CH, etc, where based on your skill you could execute a special attack from mountback, then another X seconds later, similar to droid commands in space. A novice CH could maybe execute one special attack every 30 seconds, whereas a master CH has no delay. Adjust the timer appropriatly. Creature Handlers should be the only ones with the potential for fully fluid mounted combat (for obvious reasons), while Rangers should have a fair measure of this skill as well. Possibly include a measure of mounted combat skill for all elite professions at master just because of their familiarity with their weapons, but it should be significantly less than that granted to a Creature Handler or Ranger.

- A mounted player should have an improved melee defense rating, probably even ranged defense rating. Even +10 to each of those stats while mounted would add a nice benefit. After all, it's harder to hit a moving target at range, and at melee range the opponent would be contending with the mount's movements to hit the rider.

- Trash the "your mount has slowed down to enter combat." Non-gallop mounted speed is still considerably slow. Keep it where a galloping mount prevents the rider from attacking, but leave the non-gallop speed combat-capable withoug slowing down.

- Creature Handler's mounts should be able to attack normally while the CH is mounted. If the pet only has melee attacks, obviously the target would have to be within range, but a creature that spits should be able to attack from range. Limit this ability only to creature handlers, as only they would have the training to control the mount while it fights.

- Include mount barding/armor that we've seen concept art for to facilitate this mounted combat. Images of bols, kaadu, etc. with armor have been kicking around online since launch. It should be included to improve the defense of a mount while in combat. This armor could be used by all professions.

- Most ranger/scout/CH actions should be achievable from mount, perhaps based of a similar system as the mounted combat mod. Trapping, areatracking, mask scent, calling pets, taming pets, etc. should all be able to be done from mounts.

- Add additional mounted pets for CHs including such things as rancors, flying mounts, etc. Especially if pets are given the ability to attack while carrying a rider, this would be a HUGE enhancement.

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 02-01-2005 01:30 AM

I'm amazed and outraged all at the same time. One one hand it's beyond words how great it is that they want to make mounts more viable, on the other hand, it seems like they are all for making no difference between a CH and a non CH mount users.
I say this because Tiggs asked what actions we would like to be able to do on mounts, and not, what thigs should a CH be able to do on a mount, and what thigs should a non-CH be able to do on a mount.
It's also funny how most of those posting are wanting to be able to fire thier rifle or pistol or whatever from thier mount, how lame. There is no way any non CH should have anything more than a basic attack from atop a mount. Anything above that should be reserved for CH and that's the bottom line.
I'm all for servey from mounts, or heal, or SL using thier commands from a mount, but when it comes to pet combat, no one should be better than a CH, on a mount, with a mount, or with some freak show level 10/10k ham pet.

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Joker9125 wrote:

As long as I can mount my kimogila "PuffTheMagicDragon" and ride him into battle ill be happy

Also I see alot of non ch's posting that they should be able to use there speials while mounted and several suggest even putting specials for being mounted in profession trees other than CH WE DO NOT NEED TO LET THIS HAPPEN!!!! I like Ko-airi's idea of a mounted combat skill given to scout classes like Ranger and CH but CH's need to be the only ones who can attack unhindered while on a mount!

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I'm hoping Vertexon can voice our concern directly to the devs about mounted combat... as far as CH vs. Everyone Else. I absolutely agree that only CH should gain the major benefit from mounted combat, and it would be a hard slap in the face if every mount-using player in the game could fire all their specials from the back of a mount. I would think it would be most fair to do the "mounted combat" mod, as a novice CH would obviously not be as good as a master at fighting while mounted, and it could also trickle down as I said to masters of elite professions being able to fire from mount better than a novice elite profession, etc.

I'd say base "specials while mounted" should be 1 attack every 60 seconds. The mod at MCH (we'll say +100 Mounted Combat for sake of example) should allow 1 attack every 1 second. Master Ranger should get maybe half the mod of a MCH, so +50 we'll say. Masters of elite combat professions should get +10. So for example, a master ranger/rifleman would have +60, bringing them to a respectable degree of mounted combat but not touching the MCH's no-penalty skill. Best case, I think someone could do master ranger/rifle/pistol and get +70. So still not threatening the MCH's grip on the "best" skill.

Just a thought... something tells me the best we'll see from this focus thread is existing skills like what Tiggs listed being allowable from mounts, but they've known that enhanced mounted combat is a huge request from the CH community, and the better not give it to just everyone equally or I'd rather not see it go in at all.

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 01-31-2005 09:06 PM

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Ko-aIri wrote:

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Joker9125 wrote:

As long as I can mount my kimogila "PuffTheMagicDragon" and ride him into battle ill be happy

Also I see alot of non ch's posting that they should be able to use there speials while mounted and several suggest even putting specials for being mounted in profession trees other than CH WE DO NOT NEED TO LET THIS HAPPEN!!!! I like Ko-airi's idea of a mounted combat skill given to scout classes like Ranger and CH but CH's need to be the only ones who can attack unhindered while on a mount!

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I'm hoping Vertexon can voice our concern directly to the devs about mounted combat... as far as CH vs. Everyone Else. I absolutely agree that only CH should gain the major benefit from mounted combat, and it would be a hard slap in the face if every mount-using player in the game could fire all their specials from the back of a mount. I would think it would be most fair to do the "mounted combat" mod, as a novice CH would obviously not be as good as a master at fighting while mounted, and it could also trickle down as I said to masters of elite professions being able to fire from mount better than a novice elite profession, etc.

I'd say base "specials while mounted" should be 1 attack every 60 seconds. The mod at MCH (we'll say +100 Mounted Combat for sake of example) should allow 1 attack every 1 second. Master Ranger should get maybe half the mod of a MCH, so +50 we'll say. Masters of elite combat professions should get +10. So for example, a master ranger/rifleman would have +60, bringing them to a respectable degree of mounted combat but not touching the MCH's no-penalty skill. Best case, I think someone could do master ranger/rifle/pistol and get +70. So still not threatening the MCH's grip on the "best" skill.

Just a thought... something tells me the best we'll see from this focus thread is existing skills like what Tiggs listed being allowable from mounts, but they've known that enhanced mounted combat is a huge request from the CH community, and the better not give it to just everyone equally or I'd rather not see it go in at all.

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 01-31-2005 09:06 PM

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Be carefull what you ask for....
My POV is that, if all we get is a added bonus, no actual mounted combat system, then they may say look, you CH can do any attack you want from atop your mount, CH problems sloved, moving on.
I'm afraid if they add a system like that then that's all we'll get. Then what's the point of being a CH? So you can do all your moves from a mount? I personly think that if the do anyhting with mounted combat other than allow basic attacks, then it's going to have to be an actual system set up with moves only a CH can do, animations, so on and so forth.

True mounted combat skills should be a valued and useful skill set. Give us real mounted combat or don't put it in at all for anyone.

Message Edited by Ekaw on 01-31-2005 10:35 PM

Message Edited by Ekaw on 01-31-2005 10:35 PM

Everyone 1 star the idiot that said:

"I think they should just remove mounts from the game"

I put in a quick thing quoteing some of the threads already posted. I also see they are deleating the threads of the idiots that don't understand Creature mounts do not include vehicles.

we need everyone to post there get your friends in game to visit that thread.

We need a bone thrown to us already

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Vertexon wrote:

My thought is that just allowing use of specials while mounted isn't going to be enough to make mounted combat viable (in the sense of being more than a novelty... and all novelties fade in time). As long as you can hit a hotkey to dismount and fight on foot in less than two seconds, there needs to be a gameplay advantage above and beyond being on foot. Otherwise why stay mounted?

Consider that you have to allow every possible gameplay action currently available on foot (not just specials, but healing, feign death, posture changes, attacking while "burst running," having the mount itself able to attack, etc) just to get on even footing. Not sure if that's desirable or even possible (posture changes while mounted?).

So I really see a need for what I'd call a "mounted combat revamp" that adds features and functionality to create a compelling reason for staying mounted even given the choice of dismounting first. That could be trample damage, slightly boosted defense, more control over going into and out of the gallop state, or any number of possibilies.

I'll definitely do my best to carry our wishes and concerns to the Devs on this as the Creature Handler community (and not just the general playerbase). But also keep in mind the current development schedule. With the combat upgrade pending, it may be the case that something like a "quick fix" addition of useable commands is more viable (for the moment) than a feature-heavy mounted combat revamp. That's also something to keep in mind as you reply to Tiggs' thread (and please do reply there if you haven't already).

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The one thing I'm most concerned with Vert, features aside, is that they have to err on the side of caution when deciding to give players further skills with mounts. A lot of the potential actions that can be granted while mounted may fall under the realm of things that only a creature handler should be able to do (especially in the realm of mounted combat) so I'd be very concerned if they start granting all players equal domain when it comes to performing actions while mounted.

I also agree that there has to be an advantage to mounted combat, I was simply hoping that even the addition of mounted combat being equal to non-mounted combat might be a start. After all, right now there is nothing appealing about mounted combat at all. It's a waste of time.

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Vertexon wrote:

I'll definitely do my best to carry our wishes and concerns to the Devs on this as the Creature Handler community (and not just the general playerbase). But also keep in mind the current development schedule. With the combat upgrade pending, it may be the case that something like a "quick fix" addition of useable commands is more viable (for the moment) than a feature-heavy mounted combat revamp. That's also something to keep in mind as you reply to Tiggs' thread (and please do reply there if you haven't already).

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Okay, so I'm not a common face in the CH world, but I see a potential for mounted combat. What concerns me most is the idea that is implicit in this last paragraph... "something like a 'quick fix'"...

From what I have seen around the forums, CHs were being loved as a part of the combat upgrade. In fact, if it is a true combat upgrade / rebalance / revamp, ALL aspects of combat should have been on the Dev team's mind. Mounted combat is possible now (a friend of mine is already using it as a loot-pharming technique), so should have been at least 20-minutes of thought for one of the junior devs. Mounted combat doesn't need to be "feature" heavy... Micro$oft products are "feature" heavy, and 99% of users do not use more than 3% of the available "features". Making combat while mounted feasible, and somewhat believable, does not require a massive "feature" update.

As far as all people fighting mounted... sure, you can get on a horse and shoot. But will you do as well as that cowboy or indian that was practically born on horseback?

Yes, I'll visit the thread and repeat, but consider the /vent over.