Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Creature Handler ideas for Dancer-specific pets
Helanor
Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:25 am
#14
Hmm. Yes do something with the rasp my Dancer/Musican alt has one, lovely little thing and everyone who sees it adores it, but you get a crick in your neck trying to find him and he will insist on standing dead centre near the entrance wherever I go. Also his tricks arr err a bit crap for an entertainer's pet.
Biggest problem is I use droids a lot with my entertainer, and a lot of others do the same, so you'd need to amend things so you could have a pet and a droid out together for it really to work well and fairly.
I like the ideas about the pets helping the action pool, flipping twileks have such crap action stats even after getting them fixed.
Helene
MCH/MR Starsider
Master Dancer/Musician/Entertainer Kettemoor
Vertexon
Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:28 pm
#15
Nvim wrote:
If the devs start to dish out party tricks to CH then they will ignore the bigger issues because they feel we are getting something. That would be not in the best interst of the profession in my opinion. You have to be very careful what you ask for because at times you get it and then we can kiss goodbye to another year of no real improvement.
Anything like a Dancer-specific pet proposal probably wouldn't even be presented to them for consideration until the Combat Revamp is underway. While it's true that combat has been the primary (read: almost only) function of pets to this point, I think it would be shortsighted not to think about adding non-combat niches for our pets, too. Doing so breathed extra life into droids, and could help do the same for us. Not to mention allowing the Devs to "kill two birds with one stone" by providing enhancement for both CHs and other professions with a single publish.
SioBabble
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:50 pm
#16
Vert, this is great, I've long felt that having cute pets who supplement an entertainer's skill was a great idea that needed to be made real in the game. Dancing durnis, slicehounds that melodically bark along to the music, whatever...just get the pets into the cantinas, and have them actually add to the performance of the entertainers, providing the players with XP and additional healing powers.
Nvim
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:02 pm
#17
I understand what you mean, but Droid Engineers were always a non-combat crafting profession, they were enhanced to make their core function more attractive, that is to make nicer droids that people would want. But DEs of every level are capable of making and selling droids, it is their only real function. I note that while their new droid designs are much nicer, droids are still useless in combat.
The only way CH get exp is by either killing stuff, alot of stuff, or by taming and teaching abilities. I wouldn't care if other stuff was done on the side, but only after our core function was adressed. I think you underestimate the beast which is MMOG developers. They are a stone. Getting anything out of them is like sucking blood from that stone. In the history of MMOGs, in particular SOE games, they have a notorious track record for leaving broken classes remain broken by giving fluff abilities.
We are talking about the same people that beat us to death with the nerf bat and said don't worry, everything will be okay, masters wont get any weaker, we are anti-dabblers and to show us how much they love us they are going to give us the massive bounty that is creature mounts, full well knowing that the vastly superior vehicles were already on the design table. We all know where that pep talk got us. Fear the vision.
I'd be happy if they did the 'two bird with one stone' thing, but my fear is they will turn us into freak show performers and forget about the combat side of CH. As an ex-master dancer and musician, I do not really care to have this class provide dancing monkies, bunnies or whatever else they want. They have bigger issues than getting more fluff aswell.
The only way CH get exp is by either killing stuff, alot of stuff, or by taming and teaching abilities. I wouldn't care if other stuff was done on the side, but only after our core function was adressed. I think you underestimate the beast which is MMOG developers. They are a stone. Getting anything out of them is like sucking blood from that stone. In the history of MMOGs, in particular SOE games, they have a notorious track record for leaving broken classes remain broken by giving fluff abilities.
We are talking about the same people that beat us to death with the nerf bat and said don't worry, everything will be okay, masters wont get any weaker, we are anti-dabblers and to show us how much they love us they are going to give us the massive bounty that is creature mounts, full well knowing that the vastly superior vehicles were already on the design table. We all know where that pep talk got us. Fear the vision.
I'd be happy if they did the 'two bird with one stone' thing, but my fear is they will turn us into freak show performers and forget about the combat side of CH. As an ex-master dancer and musician, I do not really care to have this class provide dancing monkies, bunnies or whatever else they want. They have bigger issues than getting more fluff aswell.
Pluto9Moon
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:15 pm
#18
Vertexon wrote:Anything like a Dancer-specific pet proposal probably wouldn't even be presented to them for consideration until the Combat Revamp is underway. While it's true that combat has been the primary (read: almost only) function of pets to this point, I think it would be shortsighted not to think about adding non-combat niches for our pets, too. Doing so breathed extra life into droids, and could help do the same for us. Not to mention allowing the Devs to "kill two birds with one stone" by providing enhancement for both CHs and other professions with a single publish.
Vert,
There are two parts to your post. One I agree with and the other I do not.
We need the niche. I think this is the only way we can get a niche is through profession specific pets. Finding a way to make a pet useful to each and every class is my goal.
The part that confuses me is that you say, "Anything like a Dancer-specific pet proposal probably wouldn't even be presented to them for consideration until the Combat Revamp is underway." While I can speculate that nothing would be done even if you do mention it to the Devs (past Dev-speak allows me to assume this). I do not see how postponement of this presentation is a good thing. Could you be so kind as to elaborate on this for me?
Vertexon
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:31 pm
#19
Pluto9Moon wrote:
The part that confuses me is that you say, "Anything like a Dancer-specific pet proposal probably wouldn't even be presented to them for consideration until the Combat Revamp is underway." While I can speculate that nothing would be done even if you do mention it to the Devs (past Dev-speak allows me to assume this). I do not see how postponement of this presentation is a good thing. Could you be so kind as to elaborate on this for me?
Sure. For starters, this Dancer/CH proposal is still in the "gathering feedback" phase. After that, I intend to go through and put together a rough draft based on the ideas people have shared. Then we'll see what the CHs/Dancers think of that, and refine it further. I'd also like to see if any other professionsare interested in comingonboard with this.
Second, the JTL release is imminent. The Combat Revamp is also on the radar. While it certainly would hurt to toss them a major feature request right now, I doubt this is the optimal time to have serious discussions about it.
moonraker66
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:51 pm
#20
jopenack wrote:
any level pet should be able to be taught dance's either -dance1 -dance2
truth is I would have liked this structured so it takes the ch a period of time to train them as I sad in past threads. with this and other enhancing commands. teach pet dance1 3 times a day for lets say 10-20 days (times may be adjusted) and each time the pet is tought the commant by a ch the dance last longer. when finished (danjce capped out) the pet will now dance do a 3 minute dance.
Ok I love this idea BUT lets make any command farther that, either dance or music, entertainer commands.
That way people could use entertainer pets at their own lvl of entertaing.
My2 cents but anythng to get more pets in the game.
Pluto9Moon
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:55 pm
#21
That makes sense. So what is the chance you can push the Corral Plan now. As we discussed in the thread it would make a great training facility for CH Bred or wild tames, turning them into Profession Specific Pets?
If we could get the structure in place as extra storage for now, then we could get things like these placed as add-ons.
If we could get the structure in place as extra storage for now, then we could get things like these placed as add-ons.
jopenack
Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:48 am
#22
yup I agree with Pluto
as much as we need a niche with ch to become useful a first step would be nice allowing us storage for these pets while we wait till they are trained.
not sure i understood what was said above but when i said dance1 dance2 commands I was including musicians too. it wouldn't matter what type of entertainer used it a pet dancing is a pet dancing lol
I said something like this in the dancer forum
nov entertainer +5 bonus with dancing pet, master entertainer +10, nov musician/dancer +15 bonus, master dancer/musician +25. I asked the dancers what type of bonus they might like heal, buff ....
also read where a dancing pet wouldslow action pool drain from entertainers its a good idea also. I hoped they would post about what they desire in this area but they seem to be just going down a what pet they want to dance list lol
MrHawat
Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:44 am
#23
Vert, one think I hope you include as an important part of the plan is the ability of a CH to get these pets to the entertainer in a reliable/nofuss manor. Yes, it would be nice to have a niche for profession specific pets but not if it means standing in a starport all night spamming. Not my idea of a good time. I would suggest you combine the Stable plan with this. In addition to making it for additional pet storage also make it function like a vendor for tamed pets only. That way when I get a tell asking for one I can just refer them to my Stable and not drop what I am doing and try to get to a starport. I can also advertise in the Galaxy Trade Forums.
SioBabble
Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:46 am
#24
Pluto9Moon wrote:
That makes sense. So what is the chance you can push the Corral Plan now. As we discussed in the thread it would make a great training facility for CH Bred or wild tames, turning them into Profession Specific Pets?
If we could get the structure in place as extra storage for now, then we could get things like these placed as add-ons.
Absolutely agree; I have asserted since before the mount publish that CHs need to have a place to store critters where they can be displayed to prospective purchasers, where they can /pet them or whatever to see what they're getting.
This goes hand in hand with the idea of pets being for more than combat, transportation, or role play. Medical rescue/healing pets, pets with sensitivity to resources, pets that augment an entertainer's abilities, pets that serve as meaningful scouts in the wild. All these applications of pets imply a greater supply of places to put them when they're not in use, and CHs must have a fixed facility where they can house, train, breed, and displaythese potential pets for others, one that is off the datapad and thus is not an issue of 'combat balance'.
Pluto9Moon
Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:57 am
#25
I want to say, first that I do not mean to hijack this thread Vert. Concept threads at best are staying active a week or two lately. There is a real lack of interest in the forums by most people (Haden 20% of the people use the forums). Recent history changes that somewhat, active people leaving the game. Many may be beta testing.
My ultimate worry is the CL restrictions. Are there enough cute CL10 and less in the game? Where will we store things to meet the rush? Are we going to lose everything to the BE's merely to be asked to train these for free?
My ultimate worry is the CL restrictions. Are there enough cute CL10 and less in the game? Where will we store things to meet the rush? Are we going to lose everything to the BE's merely to be asked to train these for free?
Butterwufabow
Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:54 pm
#26
Vertexon wrote:
Hey there folks.You may have seen me allude to this thread recently. We've been looking for additional functionality and niches in which our pets can excel (perhaps even ways to expand them beyond combat). There have been some really great threads along those lines.
After speaking with Panthu, it seemed like a good idea to coordinate a brainstorming session between the Creature Handler and Dancer forums. There has been a desire on their part for pets to enhance their performance, and know what they would like to see toward that end. We, on the other hand, have knowledge of creatures and their capabilities.
I really cant belive Im reading this. Vert, I love the effort your making, but excuse me as I go throw up. Let me get this straight, we are supposed to take our once feared combat hardend pets and turn them into circus animals? I know its not that extreme, but come on now! Isnt it bad enough as it is that we train a BE'd Bantha for BillyJoBobz-noobys' mount , just so he can run a lap around Mos Eisely before he gets bored with it and pulls out his swoop? This idea will have us chasing Gnorts, Durni, and Nunas so the guy playing Barbi Beanbags teh dancer can have a whole new way to "tumble" (if we used the Dance1/ Dance 2 idea) for aspiring FS grinders across the galaxies all the while completely AFK or even better, playing his Jedi main on his other computer. Tell me again where the CH benifits from this? Please, because I really dont see it.
"We've been looking for additional functionality and niches in which our pets can excel (perhaps even ways to expand them beyond combat)" Vert,what combat?!?! What do you think the last several months of kicking, screaming, whining, crying, cursing, suspending, banning, and cancellations have been all about!! Come on, you know as well as the rest of us that most CHs will agree that we are not a completely broken profession, we are at least handicapped, and Im sorry but no number of dancing Durni will fix that. At least the previious idea of another Trick command would have purpose and benifit to the CH in the field, as long as it did in fact heal for more then Trick 2. If we are going to continue to look for "functionality beyond combat" , lets make sure that it at least benifits the CH profession as a whole. Really, looking at the dancing concept, who benifits from that? The Dancer using the animal. Im pretty sure my Giant Veermok dancing in the streets ofTheed isnt going to do much for me as a non-entertainer. Instead of using our already scarce resources to impliment a command that will only benifit another profession all together, it should be put towards correcting some of the CHs more important and critical issues/fixes. We should be concentrating on fixing us as a profession before we go training monkeys to dance for people. This idea isnt completely without merit, but right now its sounds pretty one sided. Some may say this is no different then the Mount command, which I can understand that argument, except at once time we were able to actually make a business, as short lived as it was, in selling mounts and we can at least train a mount for ourselves as well. My Giant Veermok dancing on the corner isnt going to do anything form me, its just add to the lag. Love me, hate me, ban me, I can really care less, but look through the flame and try and see the point of what Im saying.
Tearvi Asai
Master Rifleman/Master Creature Handler
GoW of Bloodfin
Message Edited by Butterwufabow on 10-22-2004 05:56 PM