Creature Handler Archive
Thread: The answer to our Question
ZonJaiNezBA
Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:48 am
#14
If I remember correctly the original "exploit" was being able to store one pet and pull another out immediately and continue fighting. But with having a timer on storing and one on calling is a bit much nowadays.
I would love it if you could pull all 3 pets out as master in the same 15 seconds, then it isn't as bad, but it is still very bad.
Edit: Disclaimer: I am not saying it was an exploit, I was not a CH when this was possible, so technically I never saw it.
Message Edited by ZonJaiNezBA on 06-04-2004 11:53 AM
elneckio
Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:32 am
#15
Well I was happy to see that the CH question this time was my favourite annoyance. However I'm not very happy with the result 
From what I have read on the boards, CH is a 'support' class. Now I assume that the other support classes must be things like combat medic, squad leader etc. i.e. things that can be used alongside a master combat proffession.
If I go hunting with other people, by the time I have spawned pets the group has bashed the existing spawn of the lair and ishappily onto spawning the rest. Finally as a MCH my act gets together and off go my pets to do their (admittedly limited until rebalance) stuff. Lair finished a few moments later, now we face the choice of dragging pets behind us as we ride to the next lair or store them for safety, but wait - yes reallywait again before we can store them away,I then have to apologise to everyone in group for slowing them down !.
So there we go....
Have I supported the group I went hunting with ? -Not really.
Have I slowed them down? -Yes lots. (approx 45secs to spawn and 30secs to store per lair)
Will I bother calling pets again on next lair ? - Fat chance, I am of more use to any group using basic medic skills with stim b's.
So for a game that continually goes on about how they want to encourage grouping how does this help ?
The answer blames exploiting, fine I can relate to that but just because some people want to exploit why should all the decent non-exploiting players be slowed down permenantly ?
The only player the MCH currently supports is himself when he is soloing, again not encouraging a multiplayer experience. I no longer use pets when grouped as I don't want to slow everyone down.
I pray that after rebalance waiting those minutes at each lair will be a worthwhile wait for the group.
BlindTyldak
Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:10 pm
#16
Jedi may be important to the genre, but the customers are what's important to their game. These guys are screwed if JTL isn't perfect, because they've blown off all the rest of the customers for so long, and they know it. I'm sure they look at their feet quite often and wonder how many more bulletholes they can take before they bleed themselves to death.
marxo777
Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:26 pm
#17
Hello, uh this is Mars. It was my kid that made the Jedi post, yeah thats right. It wasn't me. Not at all. Kill all Jedi I always say. Yup. I've locked the lil' rascal in thecellar so he won't be bothering all us Jedi haters anymore. Sorry 'bout all that.
Kids, what are ya gonna do. 
SioBabble
Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:12 pm
#18
marxo777 wrote:
Kids, what are ya gonna do.
"But I wanted to go into Toshi Station and pick up some powerr converrrters!"
Actually, the Jedi in this game are VERY MUCH like the Jedi in ANH, now that I think about it.
Message Edited by SioBabble on 06-04-2004 02:27 PM
Seiryuu
Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:19 pm
#19
The thing that still bothers me is this supposed "exploit".
In a city pets can still be called instantly. We still have combat timers. How does having a timer in the wilderness but not in a city constitute an exploit in one place but not the other. (Talk of the Jedi scenario is pure speculation on our part.)
This answer no sense, just as it didn't when the timers were announced.
Vert, TH said he won't talk about exploits on an open board. You have access to the closed one. Can you find out the exploit there and then either confirm that there is in fact one (not what it is) or show TH that this contradiction makes no sense whatsoever based on the answer we were given? Thanks.
In a city pets can still be called instantly. We still have combat timers. How does having a timer in the wilderness but not in a city constitute an exploit in one place but not the other. (Talk of the Jedi scenario is pure speculation on our part.)
This answer no sense, just as it didn't when the timers were announced.
Vert, TH said he won't talk about exploits on an open board. You have access to the closed one. Can you find out the exploit there and then either confirm that there is in fact one (not what it is) or show TH that this contradiction makes no sense whatsoever based on the answer we were given? Thanks.
GadonThek
Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:22 pm
#20
I wouldnt suggest that if I were you, all that will happen is the devs will add the call timer to the cities as well, hehe.
Galacium
Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:06 pm
#21
1. I got the impression TH dosn't know explicitly what exploit specificly was invloved from his responce, but he was saying that the dev's would never ever reveal the mechanics of exploits. The reason he said this is that the question was asking about exploits. You asked what the exploits were and he said he will never reveal exploits. Its like going to a teller and demanding money and they say they don't give moeny out for free. Your demand dosn't mean they have the money just means, even if they did they wouldn't give you any so don't ask. And who though asking for an explination of an exploit was a good part of the question?
2. He said he is trying to convince the design team to consider changing it. What exactly do you want from the guy, its not like he can snap his fingers and poof, no more timer. He passed your message up the chain, thats about as much as you can expect from the guy.
3. No timer on pet calls can lead to the pet duping exploits. Mostly they don't want you pulling out multiple pets per combat, of course that dosn't realy work anyway, I do it fairly often when grouped with others. One pet drops, I wait out the timer, peace out, drop a camp and pull a new pet out. Works nicely.
I'd like to see the timer gone as well, but realy, its just an inconvienece at most, hardly game breaking. The folks too lazy to use camps or get fast pets to follow on speeders don't get much sympathy from me.
Vertexon
Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:02 pm
#22
Seiryuu wrote:
The thing that still bothers me is this supposed "exploit".
In a city pets can still be called instantly. We still have combat timers. How does having a timer in the wilderness but not in a city constitute an exploit in one place but not the other. (Talk of the Jedi scenario is pure speculation on our part.)
This answer no sense, just as it didn't when the timers were announced.
Vert, TH said he won't talk about exploits on an open board. You have access to the closed one. Can you find out the exploit there and then either confirm that there is in fact one (not what it is) or show TH that this contradiction makes no sense whatsoever based on the answer we were given? Thanks.
I can't post things that have been said there without permission. I will say that I've been having a very spirited discussion about this, and I do not personally agree with the Devs' reasoning behind this timer.
It would be very helpful if you guys could continue to (constructively) discuss all the ramifications here on the board. With the goal being to assemble a compelling list of arguments for our position that can be presented to the Devs.
Seiryuu
Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:39 pm
#23
Thanks Vert.
We made such lists back when the timer was introduced, so I am sure we can remake them. The problem is that we do not know what we are arguing against. Without even a general idea, we have no way of countering (or suggesting fixes if necessary) what the perceived problem is.
I know you're stuck not being able to give us even a smidgeon of info to guide us. Having no focus to help you kind of leaves us going 'huh?' and scratching our heads at the devs though.
I'll see about looking through some of the old discussions once I'm not so depressed over this. I know looking at them is just going to make me more angry and upset...
We made such lists back when the timer was introduced, so I am sure we can remake them. The problem is that we do not know what we are arguing against. Without even a general idea, we have no way of countering (or suggesting fixes if necessary) what the perceived problem is.
I know you're stuck not being able to give us even a smidgeon of info to guide us. Having no focus to help you kind of leaves us going 'huh?' and scratching our heads at the devs though.
I'll see about looking through some of the old discussions once I'm not so depressed over this. I know looking at them is just going to make me more angry and upset...
SioBabble
Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:27 am
#24
marxo777 wrote:
Hes right, and this is why we won't get our way on this. In SWG Jedi are more worthy than CH's and they should be. Jedi are the main focus of the SW universe.
This is why I root for Bounty Hunters to clonecamp Jedi and kill them over and over again, griefing them, because the greatest group of crybabies in this game are Jedi.
Most Jedi are powergamer scum. I want them to suffer. Everyone else's gameplay must MUST be subordinated to theirs.
Screw the Jedi.
marxo777
Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:48 am
#25
SioBabble wrote:
marxo777 wrote:
Hes right, and this is why we won't get our way on this. In SWG Jedi are more worthy than CH's and they should be. Jedi are the main focus of the SW universe.
This is why I root for Bounty Hunters to clonecamp Jedi and kill them over and over again, griefing them, because the greatest group of crybabies in this game are Jedi.
Most Jedi are powergamer scum. I want them to suffer. Everyone else's gameplay must MUST be subordinated to theirs.
Screw the Jedi.
Whoa, I'm not siding with the jedi at all. I'm just saying in the big picture Jedi are more important to the genre. The movies were about Jedi not CH's. I wish it was dif but its not. Personally I think we should go back to jedi perma-death. They need to be rare. Right now they are more common than ID's. Jedi aren't afraid anymore toshow thier face. I see at least 1-3 jedi a week nowadays. Its crazy. I've never hologrinded nor do I have a jedi or want one. I hope the revamp will change some things but I'm not holding my breath.
ratlif
Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:57 am
#26
I found out how really useless this profession, aka trophy class, really is.
/.begin rant
Pets are so damn weak in this game, even BE pets can't last that long with the new crap coming in. Even with some of the old creatures/npcs.
How hard is to bring pets back to the way they were? Or adding more usefull pets for master... ooo wow i get to call a delirious merek avenger and a crimson razor cat at the same time to only die 3 minutes later. HOORAY!
Like i said in the pistoleer forum, i am gone in 2 weeks, will come back when they make this class and pistoleer working/worthy
/end rant
Pets are so damn weak in this game, even BE pets can't last that long with the new crap coming in. Even with some of the old creatures/npcs.
How hard is to bring pets back to the way they were? Or adding more usefull pets for master... ooo wow i get to call a delirious merek avenger and a crimson razor cat at the same time to only die 3 minutes later. HOORAY!
Like i said in the pistoleer forum, i am gone in 2 weeks, will come back when they make this class and pistoleer working/worthy
/end rant