Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Making CH Competitive
GlenSharkio
Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:05 pm
#157
Rancors lvl 50 and above should be like ATST.... amazing armor, some weaknesses, high damage output, and not KD-able.
-Elder Medic-
badgic
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:25 pm
#159
i would like to see our pets able to deal out equal damage to any combat mastery. someone put out a good point however that with another combat prof we would be too damaging. someone else said that fighting while mounted would be a good thing for pets. how about a ranged attack mount when mounted by a master ch have high damaging attacks. possably a skill from mastering ch? if im unmounted im no different than now, must use a secondary combat prof to do damage. if mounted on my ranged mount i can deal out equivalent damage to ranged professions however my second or third pets are still my armor. possably be's can make rangedmountswith differing damage types and or damage levels. standard weapons can still not be used while mounted so #1 ch can do damage while mounted, #2 ch/combat prof cannot stack his/her damage. this would make ch a viable choice for the crafters and other professions that harvest and would like ch as their combat profession.
Zelfin
Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:13 am
#160
Heres a really wild idea I havent heard yet, ALLOW OUR PETS TO GET XP!
If a pet gets xp and slowly gets stronger (i.e. higher resists, more damage, more ham, etc.) Once they are full grown. It solves many problems. Wild creatures are suddenly worth more again. Vitality loss becomes an issue if you have a rancor that grows to lvl 70 and you dont want to lose him. Right now pets are disposable. Pets growing also grants the ability to increase their strengths. Thus a Master Creature Handler is going to have TOUGHER cats, rancors, snakes etc, than a novice would.
I may be way off here but this makes tons of sense to me. Once a CH makes master where does that exp go? every other class has force skills they can now spend their xp on. What does a CH get? Allow a CH to expend that XP on the critters and watch them all cheer.
Suddenly your creature level is dependant on the character not the game. I would give TONS of experience to one critter if it would give him medium armor. (Which is something a BE can make in a critter anyways)
Now real life scenario? Ever train a pit bull to fight? they get tougher, they learn to dodge attacks, they learn to igore pain, and they learn how to incapacitate an enemy.
So in essence give CH the ability to train combat specific creature, just like they can train mounts.
Zelfin
Master CH/Master Rifleman
Zelfin
Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:24 am
#161
How about giving CH pets XP?
Imagine if you will a Creature handler taming a pet. Once that pet grows up it continues to learn, albeit much slower. Creatures can continue to grow. learning. gaining abilities, gaining defenses, etc. All based upon how much they are used in combat. Or even a system where the CH gives their own CH XP to improve their own pets. Suddenly pets are a huge thing again. The abilities and prowess gained need not be exaggerated or unbalancing, but imagine taming a critter you like and wishing it was more powerful, teach it to fight.
Ever tought a pit bull how to pit fight? The learn, they get stronger, they learn to dodge, they learn how to do more damage and thus take their prey down faster, they learn what they can ignore and what will hurt them worse and learn how to defend those areas of their body.
So overall add a system where the critters can be enhanced by the CH. Either by slowly gaining xp as the CH does, or by adding a command that allows the CH to dump his XP into them. Doesnt make sense you say?
How about this tactic then? Force skills. Most classes have a force tree that will outright enhance their abilities, CH is one that doesnt. Force skills are gained by giving up that classes XP for force xp. Do the same thing with Creatures.
Just my few sense worth.
Zelfin
Master CH/Master RIfleman
Rogue1970
Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:19 pm
#162
Add the Shield Generators that can be carried on the backs of Fambaa's (Episode 1) or other Dino-size creatures.
They should cover all 'group members' within a 64m area.
Best model should have condition of 20k with Light Armor and 50% resists at max.....
Function like PSGs - disposable, yet expensive.
Smaller pet only versions should be available as well.
Give us some value in PvP....
sodron
Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:13 am
#163
I was a mch/master rifle for a long time recently I dropped most of ch to get sword. Reasons being, I felt time needed to call and store pets was a waste of time, before bikes this didn't bother me as I healed pets running from lair to lair.
My major pet peeves were how fast pets can take damage.. How long they take to heal unless I use pet sims. I did nothing but faction missions just to get atst which for a wookiee cost a lot but I wanted one anyway and it was as goal , but I found out using pets reduces the amount of faction I got per mission so I did it without pets..
The big one for me was always when something runs away or warps 100 meters awhile and pet chases it. Getting attacked by 3 or more rancor's, pikets or what ever and one runs away my pets will go after the one that runs and can someone explain how rebel medics can run so fast . To me when I say guard my pets should go no more then 10-15 meters away from me, if I get inncapped I expect them to be standing over me ripping the head off of everything with 10 meters of me or grabbing me and get the hell out of there.
I always seen myself as a support role not as a true or pure combat professions and never wanted to be one as a ch. I want to win fights / complete missions by having pets scare the hell out of things and make them run away , I never wanted to use pets to kill everything under the sun. My pets are beloved friends and family to me not a weapon. when i started ch i would have been quite happy if my pet wuold stand there ,roar and make things run away.
Some changes I would like to see
Give ch better defenses and resists in pve. We spend so much time fighting and training pets, we know how they think how they fight cant we get resists against there poison or whatever else it is. Maybe a bonus to melee defense when attacked or in a case like when attacked by a random spawn have a way to make them back off . We understand animals in a way no one else does , have things reflect that in game.
i wouldn't mind seeing a ch get better maskscent , not as good as a ranger but better then what a scout gets. it make some sense for a ch to have some ranger skills. if so then rangers should get some extra skills also. i never played ranger so i dont know what issues or concerns they have. maybe give then ability to train pets under level 15 or so and give them 1 or 2 commands just for rangers command pet to track or forage. possibly give a ch limited ranger abiltys that work only on one planet. the ch picks the planet when they becomer master and it can never change, or give us fs skills that are usful.
Guard command can be better, don't go after something 100 meters away when something is 2 meters away. I would to see something along the lines of if I get inncapped my rancor will pick me up and run
Instead of more damage I like to see things like kd or dizzy happen more after. One thing I love to see will be for pets to pin and hold whatever there fighting, should be easy for a rancor to pin a npc to the ground or dewback to bite and not let go. On a side note why cant pets attack faster , never did understand why I attack faster then a cat.
Allowing pets to use armor/psg/food has to help a lot. Come up with a whole line of food for pets or to make things easier on chefs just have when my pets eat the same food as I do it has same effect om them as me and possibly let them eat twice as much
What I like to see for pvp is to train pets to guard bases and they stay there 24/7. These pets don't count against the limits of pets a ch can have if they live in the town. This can be a reason for guilds wanting someone in the town to be a mch. Train pet to do things if base is attacked press a button which will send email/tell to everyone in guild base is under attack or during the time the base can be blown up has a droid give food to pet which will buff his stats
My major pet peeves were how fast pets can take damage.. How long they take to heal unless I use pet sims. I did nothing but faction missions just to get atst which for a wookiee cost a lot but I wanted one anyway and it was as goal , but I found out using pets reduces the amount of faction I got per mission so I did it without pets..
The big one for me was always when something runs away or warps 100 meters awhile and pet chases it. Getting attacked by 3 or more rancor's, pikets or what ever and one runs away my pets will go after the one that runs and can someone explain how rebel medics can run so fast . To me when I say guard my pets should go no more then 10-15 meters away from me, if I get inncapped I expect them to be standing over me ripping the head off of everything with 10 meters of me or grabbing me and get the hell out of there.
I always seen myself as a support role not as a true or pure combat professions and never wanted to be one as a ch. I want to win fights / complete missions by having pets scare the hell out of things and make them run away , I never wanted to use pets to kill everything under the sun. My pets are beloved friends and family to me not a weapon. when i started ch i would have been quite happy if my pet wuold stand there ,roar and make things run away.
Some changes I would like to see
Give ch better defenses and resists in pve. We spend so much time fighting and training pets, we know how they think how they fight cant we get resists against there poison or whatever else it is. Maybe a bonus to melee defense when attacked or in a case like when attacked by a random spawn have a way to make them back off . We understand animals in a way no one else does , have things reflect that in game.
i wouldn't mind seeing a ch get better maskscent , not as good as a ranger but better then what a scout gets. it make some sense for a ch to have some ranger skills. if so then rangers should get some extra skills also. i never played ranger so i dont know what issues or concerns they have. maybe give then ability to train pets under level 15 or so and give them 1 or 2 commands just for rangers command pet to track or forage. possibly give a ch limited ranger abiltys that work only on one planet. the ch picks the planet when they becomer master and it can never change, or give us fs skills that are usful.
Guard command can be better, don't go after something 100 meters away when something is 2 meters away. I would to see something along the lines of if I get inncapped my rancor will pick me up and run
Instead of more damage I like to see things like kd or dizzy happen more after. One thing I love to see will be for pets to pin and hold whatever there fighting, should be easy for a rancor to pin a npc to the ground or dewback to bite and not let go. On a side note why cant pets attack faster , never did understand why I attack faster then a cat.
Allowing pets to use armor/psg/food has to help a lot. Come up with a whole line of food for pets or to make things easier on chefs just have when my pets eat the same food as I do it has same effect om them as me and possibly let them eat twice as much
What I like to see for pvp is to train pets to guard bases and they stay there 24/7. These pets don't count against the limits of pets a ch can have if they live in the town. This can be a reason for guilds wanting someone in the town to be a mch. Train pet to do things if base is attacked press a button which will send email/tell to everyone in guild base is under attack or during the time the base can be blown up has a droid give food to pet which will buff his stats
CHFreak
Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:04 am
#164
Just a couple of suggestions,
1. Since pets can be buffed by doctors how about making them Image Designable? Specifically, stat migrations. This will also provide extra work for the rarest of pc's, the ID's.
2. Allow a grouped pet to listen to Musicians/Dancers for mind buffs.
3. Stop making our effective combative pets extinct, ie King/Queen Merek Harvester, or provide a questable uber combative pet that is not tradeable etc, the Most Wanted subsection of the Rare Pets forum thread would be a nice place to look for inspiration here.
Previously mentioned items I particularly agree with - Call timer restriction removal, PVP vitality loss removal, Mount able to attack while mounted, make patrol functional by having the pet attack aggressive MOB's within patrol area (perhaps within pet visual range of patrol waypoints).
ElderScrollsRox
Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:32 am
#165
Give more XP and higher success rate for Taming!!
Since the whole "combat" question is up in the air anyways---how about the idea of putting some emphasis back on making TAMING fun!?!?
When you used to get decent xp for taming, I used to love going around to different planets looking for different animals to tame. When they made it so that you got less xp from taming, and/or made it harder to actually succeed, the whole idea of "adventuring" to different places for animals went right out the window with it. Combat was really the only practical way to level, and it was then that I finally decided to drop CH (the combat nerfs didnt help, obviously, and reducing the CH bonus that Wookiees had, but the Taming nerf was what made me decide not just to drop CH, but to also deactivate my account with my Wookiee CH).
Why use a character that was mainly centered around a broken profession?
Why go risk death by taming on tough planetsif the risks didnt give any kind of reward?
Why go CH at ALL when they cant do ANYTHING better than other professions can?
Give the TAMING some just rewards, like it used to be. Give the CH animals a practical purpose that translates into some kind of advantage so theyre useful again, and maybe---just maybe---give the Wookiees a starting bonus outside of CH if SOE is going to leave CH as is---the same way they eventually made BeastMasters useless in EQ. Im starting to think that SOE just hates animals, period.
Cyphaze
Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:34 pm
#166
Fixing the Healing Problem
Pets have secondaries at a mere 40. They take FOREVER to regenerate. Sure, you can heal them with petstims, but they are expensive and hard to buy in bulk. Here's my idea. While STORED (only while stored, not while out and about), creature pets regenerate as if their secondaries were equal to one-fifth (1/5) of their max HAM. I.e., a rancor, with 11300 HAM, would have secondaries at 40 while out, but would have secondaries at 2260 while stored. What does this do? It doesn't make pets invincible, but it allows pets to regenerate between battles, and still give a use to petstims forkeeping them aliveduring battle.
Wovram
Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:48 am
#167
Perhaps creature handlers could have pets which improve over a longer period of time. For instance a freshly tamed fully grown rancor has basic statistics. For each pet in datapad the creature handler would select an area for the pets training. For example strength which would improve damage. Now when using the pet and it is active a slow trickle of xp would be added to the pets ability in this area reaching a hard cap after several weeks or even months. This would reward players that stay with the profession and retain their pets over a significant length of time. The ability to train different areas would be embedded in the skill trees for the profession. More useful abilities higher up the trees.
Finally I would expect a fully grown pet to age with time, dependent on species, ulitmately suffering degenerative stat loss until dead. Creature handlers might then seek the uses of a Bio Engineer to sample from their pets at peak condition with attached risk to provide replacement clones when the original dies.
We should be able to use some kind of stimulants, hormones and attachments to improve short term performance of our pets. Suggestions like growth hormone to accelerate growth or metallic fang covers to improve damage.
Finally I think that pets should go back to being stronger but with perma death.
FirebreathXIIII
Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:35 pm
#168
Honestly, I've read only the first 5.5 pages of this discussion, but I too have my gripes about being a CH.
Although it IS a very cool, eye-candy profession, I see it as ending there, really. My level 40 Kimogila can't stand against pretty much anything PvP wise. I had a novice commando with a flamethrower blast the living [censored] out of it within 15 seconds *For the argument's sake, he had flamethrower II). Try doing that to even a Kimogila hatchling. Good luck Ternaldo. You'll need it.
I took CH because, offline, I love animals. I thought that it would be cool, and it indeed is. There is nothing like walking around Beginner's Alley with a kimogila.
But, that's pretty much where the profession goes, as far as I'm concerned.
Once, I went Krayt hunting with a BIG group (24). One of our guys was a MCH. he took out a bull rancor, which was flattened within a minute or so. Considering that there was 2 doctors, both (trying to) heal(ing) it, I think that's pretty pathetic.
So, something I'd like to see is some actual power in my pets. Both damage and HAM/armor. I know, 300 damage isn't nothing to sneeze at either, but that's raw damage. Get someone (like me) who has kinetic/energy/electricity composite armor, and that 300 hit quickly becomes 6-13, and with a buff, good luck doing ANY kind of real damage.
Also, something that really bugs me is the inhability to call pets during combat. They are supposed to be my main attack/defense, so why can't I call them?
A tradeoff I'm willing to take is that I can't call more pets than what I had at the beginning of the battle. So, if when the battle start, I have one big pet, but it gets incapped, I store it, and I can only have ONE pet out for the duration of the battle.
Since the store time and call time are adding to one another, I don't see why there should be an increase in the call time. Also, ONLY incapped pet could be stored during battle. NOT pets that are still up. That way, you keep the "near-kill store" move impossible.
To make a comparison with another battle prof (let's take commando, for pete's sake), they can switch weapons during battle, but we can't recall and call another creature. If we can't recall or call, then I think it's only fair that they can't switch weapon. That flamethrower is inneffective against that 80% heat spec protection creature? Tough luck. Live with it. Because that's what CH have to go through.
Another thing is the rather low maxClvl of MCH. I agree, raise it to 90-100, so we can at least have decent pets out at the same time. A tradeoff would be to make it impossible to call certain pets, like kimos and rancors for example, if you already have a pet out.
So, basically, you could have two cLvl40 razor cats (for example...) out, for a total of 80, but you could only have one clvl75 kimo out, even if you could take out a clvl15 perlek as well. That pet could count as two pets out, to keep it fair (and even there, it might become useless to have such powerful pets out, since you could have two pets out. That's where the very high-clvl pets come in handy). Sure, I'd LOVE to get two rancors out, but that would be overkill, IMHO.
Also, experience wise, I'm sorry, but I'm not an AFK grinder. And it's taking me forever to get anywhere in CH. I'm now 2/4/1/4, and it took me over two months. Now, when my buddy with whom I always play with made master commando, master bounty hunter, master medic (twice), master doctor, master artisan, master marksman and is now going for TKA, and all that in the time I,ve been trying to get any XP out of CH, well, something's either wrong with the CH XP chart, or with all those other profs. Either it should take them as long to get anywhere, or I should be getting a decent amount of XP for all this, which is currently not the case.
As it was said earlier, the CH prof can work on their own, but we are still far from effective, compared to even a master marksman. I took that prof to take some Commando (I love flamethrowers... heh...), and I'm dealing more damage all by myself than with my pets. My pets are really just a sidedish. When buffed, I'd rather take the damage than use my pets and risk an incap.
Isn't that wrong, somewhow?
Also, keep the doctors from buffing our creatures. Give us that kind of power. So, when some non-ch player comes to us to boost their uber-clvl10 cu-pa, well, I get the money. Again, speaking about my buddy with whom I play, he buys his buffpacks and made over 1.5 million in profit in 3 days. That's PROFIT. That's what he made after paying his expenses.
Now, as CH, we have virtually no way to actually make money but missions and selling hide/bone/meat. And when you consider that most of the meat you can get usually has OQ under 500, those don't get a pretty penny, so it takes a LOT to actually make any decent living. I need to buy myself a new pair of composite boots, and at 25K, I'd rather do missions which pay 5K each- travel expenses (that swoop gotta get fixed somehow y'know...) than run around for 5 hours deteriorating my armor even more for the same amount of money.
True, this has nothing to do with CH, thanks to the over-inflated player economy, but still, if I want to get any decent firepower, I need a combat prof with CH, but doing that keeps me from having any real money. If I want money, I need to either drop CH for a non-combat prof and resign myself not to be able to have any pets, or drop a combat prof and resign myself not to do any missions on my own because I'm too weak.
As well, make pets droppable and/or sellable. We need to clear our inventory sometimes, and keeping our pets is something that, I beleive, is important for any CH. I mean, take the other professions, for example. They all have weapons that are droppable. When have you heard about a commando that couldn't have more than one flamethrower in his inventory and his house, at the same time? I mean, BE can drop untamed, WILD animals in a home, but we can't let our tamed animals in our.
Now, that would be saying that it's allright to leave a wild rhinoceros in your appartment, but you can't have your dog there. How logical is that?! I'm sorry, but as an individual, I see the rhino being much more dangerous to my living quarters than a dog. And yet, that is what we are doing as of right now.
Another note... drop the post-battle store timer. That's among the most annoying things of the game so far, IMHO. The battle is over. Why do I have to wait to store something? Again, the commando comparison. He wants to unequip his flamethrower, and he can't because of what? Nothing stops him from unequipping after a battle. But we can't recall after, what, 30+ seconds after a battle? No sense here, as far as I'm concerned...
All I want is for this prof to have a fair foot with the others. We are NOT as good as any of the worst combat profs so far (carbineer, as far as I can tell, as I've tried to be one and I didn't deal a third of the damage I was doing as novice pistoleer) both on the damage-dealing front as the survivability probability. If I want to be able to keep my pets, I need a non-combat prof, as it's notwith CH that I can hope to be competitive.
What I want is simple. When I get in a hunting group and they see the title "Pack Master", I am actually respected. Not just a novelty you can get that is comparable to something you'd get at a souvenir shop downtown Montreal. Yes, the profession is fun, that can't be argued. But, also, it is EXTREMELY frustrating and under-rewarding. I see TKM going one-on-one with kimogilas on Lok. And yet, I'd dream to get a kimogila on my own that could do that. But, sadly, I don't think that's going to happen. Because, as far as CH is concerned, we've been turned into pet-show more than anything else.
I want to taste the feel of victory. I want to taste the fear of my enemies in PvP when they see my title and a rancor or a kimogila by my side, knowing I pack a wallop and it will be a tough fight.
I don't want to be a novelty. I don't want to avoid enemies, PCs or NPCs, because I know I can't stand toe-to-toe with them. I don't want to run away because I know that my hopes of beating a mission are next to nothing.
I want pleasure and diversity.
Not frustration and newbie-level hunts.
And right now, I don't feel that CH is giving me what I want. CH is giving me pets that I love to have. But it's not giving me what 80% of what this game is about, which is combat. For that, I have Commando now.
But, dang, do I wish CH could give that to me while I'm making a good living...
Tumbling for people is ever so boring... >_<
Eni22
Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:22 am
#169
Ok, here is what I belive that will make CH what it needs to fit into current combat roles:
1 Pets do Kinetic Damage only!! ( How many people PC's walk around naked unbuffed? For that reason PVE)
to fix this handicap, make pets specials inflict differnt damage types, *Blast from large class monsters / pets
*Acid from spiders / poison pets and so on.
2 Current Max levels of pets is 75 but yet a level 75 pet can not be called if its aggressive ( it can with BE clothes )
Make the max level of pets = to the same amount of levels an FP pet can be called such as an At-st (Level 128 1k damage ) How is this fair? In PVP your level 55 BE kimo can be taken down in 3-4 hits by a At-st while in a PVP battle,
Heck a TKM can take down just about any of my awesome 13k ham Light armor pets as if they were paper, so can most commandos for that matter. I dont think we should make pets for PVP but they cant with the amount of Skill points it takes to be a master ch, we cant even kill missions that are over level 44 even 35 are hard with 3 level 2 level 35 pets or 1 level 68 rancor like I got.
3 The amount of damage pets do stink! 600 damage for my best pet does 30 damage - 100 because the thing we fight has basic composite + buffs, this fits in with Number 1 but its very important that pets do damage, If a level 50 pet in the wild can kick some ones butt, then why does a pet level 64 with better stat not even scratch them?
4 Questing for pets might be nice, like adding an ARENA or somthing to work our pets up to winning a trophy.
5 Master CH's should have 1 or 2 mounts that no others can have, I know this might never happen but what better way to show your a master then by sitting on a Kimo while searching Dath for new babies. Give them a "Key data pad item that alows them to mount and use pet"
6 Poison and Disease pets, ok since you have resistance buffs now these attacks are just about useless. Strong poison / Strong disease doesn't do anymore then a CM's poison B's. (It's actualy less )
7 You can buff pets, (Just prolongs thier demise) Give the "Embolden pets" more kick.
8 Some place in our TREE'sgive us bonuses VS monster types like in each of the 4-4-4-4 end trees before master we can havepets have def vs KD or Attack bonus VS same creature type. This would make things more interesting.
9 I agree with some ones idea about letting us ID our pets or giving them Music buffs, could even add some cute emotions when they listen, kinda like when you type /pet "petsname" and they lay down or swivel thier heads back and forth. Maybe a blue rancor wouldnt be agood idea ( Smurf names are popping into my mind at the moment )but the other colorsthat I can use asa BE could be nice to change from. ( we can change our droids and speeders why not pets? )
Ok I am sure that there are tons of things I can say about CH, its been my main proffession since the day the game came out for me so please don't make us regret keeping it all this time.