Creature Handler Archive

Thread: Making CH Competitive

lividspiral
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:06 am
#144

for some reason the baby creatures you tame are watered-down versions of the regular creatures. maybe i'm nuts but the baby rancors and gnarled rancor i have seem to have lower resists than the full grown natural occurring versions of that creature. jacking all the creature resists, attacks, specials and ham up to what the natural levels on a computer controlled spawned adult creature might be better.


an example of what i am talking about is:

a natural rancor has 100% resist to heat, but the tamed ones only go up to 60% resist to heat.



O and A, xm 202: party rock !!

Phased out MCH.... Theyve nerfed my entire profession. now wt.f do i do? We play online games because we enjoy the immense level of detail and diverse options and the ability to do a near-infinite number of activitites and professions. with every balance more and more of our options are stripped away and the game is slimmed down and streamlined. its currently basically a bugged console game. if i wanted to play a console SW game, i would play the KOTOR series because the knights of the old republic games are fantastic. even lego SW for my son's gamecube is more enjoyable at this point.
hellrayser21
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:45 pm
#145

I'm sure someone has said this already, but i'll voice my opinions and thoughts. Since BE's seem to have cornered the CH market(by that i mean some pets they make are more sought after than the original wild ones) in my opinion, i would like to perhaps see something where BE's can make you a pet that is PvP ready. By this i mean:


-Resistant to DOT's,

-Status Effects,

-Posture Changes,

-Different HAM's

-Maybe even some immunities to a certain type of damage( blast, stun, etc.)

-Involve faction ranksto determine the power of the creature you can control. The higher up you are, the more better quality PvP pets you can have

-Or maybe perhaps since Imperial players have access to AT-ST's maybe onlyRebel MCH'sshould receive this perk


Then there should be the regular version of that pet or the usual BE made ones. To me, i think this will add a bit more depth to what MCH's want in terms of PvP. Since PvE and PvP seem to be 2 seperate aspects of the game, why not take creatures and make them that way too?They will have more options and variety as each pet can vary depending on CL andspecies.


Just a thought i had. Take Care-
LuciusScipio
Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:17 am
#146

I'm a Master Commando andCH 4/4/0/0 who hasn't been lured to the TKM (or BH) path like so many other Commandos have.However, my CL 35'ish pets are nowbecoming even less useful with the new strength of NPC mobs. It's clear that CH's need some loving. It's becoming more difficult for me to remain in the CH profession when a bunch of buffs can provide me what my creatures can (plus give me some decent pvp skills with another profession). An idea that I have (which I think has been shared by others) is to give higher level BE made creatures some MEDIUM ARMOR. This would create stronger pets and would motivate more people to return (or stay) with the CH profession.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atilius Crydell

Rebel Colonel & Master Commando (Starsider)
General_Reedy
Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:56 am
#147







hellrayser21 wrote:


-Or maybe perhaps since Imperial players have access to AT-ST's maybe onlyRebel MCH'sshould receive this perk






You're on the right track, but what really needs to happen is this: The Master box needs to add +55 max level of pets. This would equal out to +125 total max level of pets at master. AT-STs are of this level. Then, BE would need to be given the ability to sample creatures up to that level, so they can make pets up to that level. Since AT-STs are NOT, I repeat, NOT difficult to kill by ANY means for today's PvP'er, this would NOT, I repeat, NOT make a Master Creature Handler overpowered. It would simply mean that an MCH could finally be competitive again.


Have a look at an AT-ST: Medium armor, 35% kinetic and energy, 100% stun, blah, blah, blah, vulnerable to blast and Lightsaberdamage. This means a Master Heavy Swordsman can wipe the floor with it, which they can. Jedi can do the same. As can a Master Rifleman, due to their high damage per second and heavy armor piercing T21 (energy damage, weakest of the AT-ST's non-vulnerabilities). In case you haven't noticed, people with these professions are everywhere in PvP. Please realize that not every profession is meant to be able to kill every creature/mob/player. That would mean complete balance (which is unattainable) and would also mean the game would suck more than it already does.


There is no doubt in my mind that giving an MCH this ability would makeus overpowered. Even the fact that we could have two level 62 pets active at once would not be overpowering. It would simply mean our PvE tanking ability was greatly increased (which it should be), and our PvP ability is only slightly increased (if you've ever used a level 62 pet in PvP, you'll know what I mean, they get mowed down very fast in almost all circumstances, having two wouldn't be all that much better, but an improvement nonetheless). And one level 125 pet? That is already possible for an Imperial with an AT-ST. And they are not overly powerful when they use theirs. There is simply no way anyone could deny these facts without lying to everyone and themselves.



_________________
Rhylin, Rynaurr
Call Number: RYN-371
Orileous
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:27 pm
#148

Not sure if these where mentioned... But here are a few things that might help CH be a more respected profession.


Defenses for pets based on your character's level of CH. Theory is you can teach pets how to dodge attacks and get hit less frequently.


Improved secondary stats for pets based also on your character's CH level or Master CH level. If pets had a better healing rate, it may be plausible for a creature handler to have more than one pet out again that they do not have to stim constantly to keep it on its feet. I realize that creatures havelow secondary stats so that players can do missions and defend themselves versus wild creatures. But that just makes the creature handler's weapons just as easy to take down.


Armor piercing for certain pets. I would think that a rancor can go through some armor. Have this as part of the stats visable to the CH and/or Ranger.


Hide pet's resists and vulnerablities to other players unless grouped or consented for buying / selling purposes. I just don't understand why a character with no scout abilities at all can see your pets strenghts and weaknesses. That just allows them to see what your pet's weak points are and exploit them. We cannot see player's armor resists, so I think this would be a fair thing.


Group PvP advantage.. Large pets such as a Fambaa should be able to carry a shield generator that boosts resists for players grouped with the pet and within 40 meters of the pet. (As per Gungan war tactics) The range of 40 meters will allow some protection and compensate a bit for the servers not so precise location ofplayers. This would make the CH provide more defenses for the PvP and possibly be more valued member of a group other than cannon fodder.


New vehicle that an artisan can make for a CH. How about a truck or van speeder that you can have a pet carried in the back ready to jump out and attack. This would allow a CH to join in on combat right away with a group of players doing missions cooperatively. It is very often that I find myself waiting for the combat timer to attack with a pet while other professions just pull out a weapon and have at it.


Mounts that can attack while mounted. Allow the mount to bite and kick something that is either attacking the CH mounted and/or defend itself while a CH is mounted. Make it the same area range as a melee fighter and the movement be controlled by the CH as a normal mount. While we are on the topic of mounts, do not slow down the mounts for combat. This just makes the CH be in danger if you know you can't handle what is attacking you. Have the speed instead be controlled by the CH himself/herself.




Hope this helps...

Orileous Arnos
SkyPreacher1
Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:04 pm
#149

Hi Vert,

A couple of questions and no comments.


1) Is there a way to make CH competitive? In what way? As a what?


2) Who are we competing against?


3) Will we ever return to being a Combat profession? Is that what we are competing for?



....and then no matter how hard we get nerfed, we still keep CH because we are still some of the coolest characters on the game.

BOYCOTTING JUMP TO LIGHTSPEED UNTIL COMBAT BALANCE AND GCW REVAMP!
SWG: Quote: Grand moff Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. you my friend are all thats left of their religon. Except for the other 5000 over there...
crackerjackcoon
Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:47 pm
#150


I have searched through this thread and also other posts in attempt to collect what I feel are good ideas. I feel that the CH profession is in immediate need of attention and from what I can see none of the player's ideas have made it even into concept phase much less testing phase. Players are taking their time to write and post valid suggestions on how to make this profession better which isn't even the case as most just want to fix the CH profession from when it was nerfed and from the current atmosphere. I say the current atmosphere because as one player put it in a post. Its a buffed up world. Buffs do indeed rule this game now. There needs to be less worry by DEVs, SOE, or whoever is in charge around here, about how making a change to CH might unbalance the game. I see people whipping out a light saber almost every ten feet in the city and buffed out players doing thousands of damage yet we are worried about the littlest things like increasing mount speed? If I were a Rancor I would cower in fear rather than step out of my lair in this buffed out world. And yet, as a trained rancor serving my master I charge out with a mighty roar to be cut down in two or three hits by a buffed out player. That or perhaps my master will be slain cold as the enemy ignores my attacks and without penalty as I'm trying to maul him as he targets my master. My enemy is wise as he knows the CH has spent so much points to master training me or bio engineer so he can sell pets or find something better than he would in the wild. He knows the CH weakness and yet there is nothing the CH can do about it.


The following are suggestions to improve CH. Some are my own but most are from other players who recognize the importance of making CH a competitive combat class in combat. Even if you were to consider CH to be not a combat class, his creatures should still be feared rather than laughed at and mowed down.


1. Pets need to be resistant to special attacks. Knockdown, dizzy, etc. This is not something that should be automatic but perhaps bioengineered. It would be even better if these resists were trained abilities by the CH.


2. Certain species of Mounts should move faster and none of them should slow down in combat. In history mounts were used as calvalry. If I'm about to get killed by a bunch of red dots chasing me the last thing I need is my mount to slow down. This is why I imagine almost every CH has a swoop or speeder bike in his hip pocket when he shouldn't need one at all. Other ideas might be weapons made for mounted combat. Mounts should be able to be trained so they can attack while mounted although maybe not their specials.


3. Armor. For as much as I love the idea of a Rancor wearing plate mail I don't see barding type armor realistic for all pets. I do however see barding realistic for some mounts. Speaking of armor. Natural armor on large high level species needs to be increased to deal with buffed players and put some threat back into them. I don't mean bioengineered either. Creatures such as high level Rancors and Fambaa and others in the wild that make the ground shake when they walk should have a stronger means of natural protection. If you were to check the stats of the majority of the creatures that inhabit SWG you will find it extremely rare that they have anything other than light armor if anything at all. Lets please make some of these big beasties tougher and feared more. More natural light, medium, and even heavy armor for creatures.


4. Non combat abilities for mounts. Saddlebags with carrying capacity might be nice. The addition of wagons to carry more players or goods. More cute tricks that perhaps reduce a small amount of battle fatigue while camped out in the wild or serve as entertainment.


5. I haven't admittedly done much combat PvP with a CH. Don't think an experience CH even does it anymore and hear they still go for the trainer. Add command Attack to the Death. Creatures will fight even past the expiration of their trainer forcing the oponent to have to deal with them eventually. Multiple creatures attacking an opponent should decrease his accuracy with more creatures hampering an opponent even more.


6. Higher attack speed for some pets. Again if you were to look at stats on the majority of SWG creatures you will see that they don't get very high attack speeds. I can see creatures such as Grand Wrix and Gurrecks attacking exceptionally fast. Kima too. Maybe some quick spidery things. Perhaps add attack abilities such as web to SWG creatures that slow other players attack speed or decrease buff effectiveness.


7. Remove 15 second delay in calling a creature. Creature petsshould be able to be called in combat. A rifleman gets to pull out his rifle. A pistoleer can pull out his pistol. A CH should be able to pull out the only weapon at his disposal. But keep in mind there should be something in effect to keep the quick swapping of high level pets. Suggest perhaps the existing creature must be dispatched while in combat before another can be called.


8. Trained combat abilities for pets. Dodge. Evade. Block. Forced posture changes. Trained mounted combat abilities or area affect for large creatures such as Trample that can damage more than one opponent.


9. Increase max level of pets of Master to 100. Make pets up to level 100 able to be created by a bioengineer.


10. Allow tricks of creatures to eliminate battle fatigue much like an entertainer would. At least in a campsite anyways.


11, Bring back extinct babies although keep them hard to find. Giant Peko Peko. I know you want it.


12. Stables. Two of same creature placed in a stable create a baby after a length of time. This could help bring back some extincts and rares and also make them valuable for CH to sell to other players. Something a CH can make that the bioengineer can't. This is of some importance as a CH needs to be able to make money other than just killing things. (see below on vendors also)


13. Vendors. I had to become a BE just to sell pets. How silly. CH needs their own vendors. This would be especially important in the selling of mounts.


14. The ability to tame adults of domestic type species.


15. Increased mount endurence. Mounts can run longer and rather than gallop being timed it should be pool based. Thus a mount that stops will regain its gallop pool. Its silly for a mount to still tire from gallop when he is standing still. Some mounts need to be faster. New faster mounts such as perhaps Tusk Cats.


16. Shield generators for huge tamed beasts. Why not? The gungans had them. However. We are talking mucho amounts of money here and a creature isn't going to move very quick with one of those things strapped to its back. Also. Its not gonna help you in melee.


17. Changes need to be made to the CH profession and not just bug fixes which always get top priority. Players are only going to take a suggestion forum seriously if they actually see some of the suggestions go into the testing phase in a reasonable amount of time. Not six months to a year later if at all.



Okay, this was one big Santa what I want for Christmas list. Alot of it has been repeated over and over and over. Did I mention that some of this has been repeated over and over? Admittedly we are not the only profession that has wants or things to be fixed but the CH effectiveness in PvP singles us out for some immediate attention. Heck. You could give the CH profession everything on this list and he would still get whacked by the proper combination of melee, ranged professions, equipment, and buffs. I don't even do PvP, but like many other CHs, I would just like to see the beasts in SWG lived up to the feared reputation they deserve. We need to go from a pretty picture profession where people ooh and ahh at the sight of our creatures to one where they have actuall effectiveness in the game. Stop laughing at my level 70 bull rancor! @!#&*$ I'd feel guilty not throwing in something positive. Although I'm not a high level CH, it seems that the profession does well against NPCs and NPC critters. Last but not least. We are indeed the coolest profession.

Nirvanna17
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:34 pm
#151

one thing i have noticed is that some specials such as intimidation actually tell you if the pet is doing the special. but for ones like disease and poison they dont. it seems like disease and poison are a lot tougher to get it to stick and sometimes imnot even sure if my pet is listening to me! i think it would really give ch a smaller edge in combat if we would get some kind of notification on our pets doing they're specials.also maybe if the devs would add some CH only pet specials that would be great too. it would also be great if you added more pets to the game /cough krayt hint hint
NexusMako
Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:31 pm
#152

Creature handlers should be able to make pet only stims, I shouldn't have to waste skill points on medic just so I can heal my pet in battle.
Vertexon
Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:49 pm
#153

Still reading this thread. Lots of great ideas, so keep them coming.



-Vertexon.
VancouverBoy
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:19 pm
#154


I'm just starting CH, but how about the ability to call out more than 3 pets?


Not necessarily the ability to call out 10 rancor at once, but to be able to call outhowever many pets fitwithin your overall limit. For example, if I can handle a lvl 100 pet (or whatever the max is)I could call out5 level 20 pets. I suppose there is some practical limit before performance would tank, but is it really only 3?


I guess from what I've seen, once a CH reaches master, they usually just whip out their rancor. But this might increase the usefulness of some of the lower level pets and create more diversity in gameplay. Not to mention that having to target 5 pets is more confusing in a battle situation than 1 big one, even if it is as tough as all 5 combined.


Guess I always had this vision of creating an army of Decay Mites and having them follow me over the horizon spitting poison and skittering about likecockroaches when the light comes on,thus striking terror into the hearts of the enemy... Muahahahahahahahaha


Besides, it'd just be cool...
spreadsheet
Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:22 pm
#155

/bump ??



=SIVART SMADA= ~ANNAED SMADA~
-Elder Jedi--Elder Medic-
DWORKIN = Officer
!Master Creature Handler Forever!


TanariDarkcloud
Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:29 am
#156

Make all wild pets have a variety in thier stats. E.g While the average Gaping spider queen will have a 65% kinetic, 65% energy make it so that some will be a lower 50% and a rare few will have like 70% or 75% stats. I think the Ch economy will be greatly improved if they could potentially tame a baby that had high stats making thier variety more valuable than the average one. They would be able to sell the petys with higher stats for good money and they would have a pet that would be a good combat pet also. It would put alot of fun into the game if I could find a rare pet that also had a very rare high end stats. BE should be able to make better pets but why are all creatures we tame the same? After all when you harvest some are scrawny and some are healthy and their stats should reflect this.



Master Creature Handler,Dancer,Brawler, Pistoleer, Force Sensitive!!

Rares Tamed: Rhoa Kwi Pack Leader * Gaping Spider Queen [2] * Rhoa Kwi Guardian *
Wasteland Cu Pa*Prowling Gurreck *Gurreck *Toxic Merek Battlelord [3] *Arachne Webmaster [2] /p*Bark Mite Burrower Collecter*
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