Creature Handler Archive

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DeneziB wrote:

Camps and Metropolitan areas aside, timesinks aside, ... let's pretend they don't exist.

Unable to do this because they DO exist and the fact that the DO exist is the whole problem. A 30 second delay while in a city/camp/decalred residence is unneeded. The CH cannot call a pet if he is engaged in combat, nor can he store a pet 1 minute after combat right now.

Underneath everything, there is a fundamental game design issue which has to deal with ensuring that pets cannot be used to grief, and cannot be used to create an unfair situation.

Grief, unfair situation... so if a CH's pets are used for grief then the jedi hunting on Dath is not allowed to use his saber. A Pistoleer with medic skills is not allowed to heal himself in battle. Hell, lets make it so that the only skills you have access to are the ones that fall in line with the title you are currently wearing at the time. My point? A pet under the control of a MCH is a weapon, an additional weapon that is part of his skill set. You cannot grief by using a pet in battle since pets are battle oriented to begin with. By your definition of griefing, a player that uses any weapon at all is griefing by using said weapon in combat.

There is no way around the fact that allowing players to instantly pull out a pet anywhere endows them with an unfair advantage in combat, and opens up many situations for griefing in numbers.

No one is saying that anyone should be able to call ANYTHING instantly ANYWHERE they are. what everyone is saying (and what you are incapable of grasping) is that we dont feel the 30 second timer should apply to camps, cities or declared residences. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Instead of whining about having to wait for an extra 6 seconds to call a pet. Why don't you put your heads together and think of alternatives to delays? Why don't you brainstorm ways to ensure that instacalling pets won't cause grief.

Im "whining" about 30 second delays while in camps/cities/declared residences. I dont give a crap what you or anyone else says, my pets are weapons and calling them for me is the same as equipping. Where is the grief you speak of? How does using my pets that i bought with skillpoints equate to griefing in ANY circumstance? Even if i COULD call them anywhere instantly i would still be using pets fall under the skillpoint system that i spent skill points on. WHY SHOULD I BE GIMPED BECAUSE OF AN AUTOSTORE BUG THAT KEEPS MAKING MY PETS VANISH? PETS THAT I HAD ALREADY CALLED AND GROUPED WITH? <--- That was made in obnoxious allcaps so you would not miss it.

If you think about it long enough, you'll realize the best, simplest solution is to add in a delay.

No, i have thought about it. And i feel a 30 second delay is a good thing WHEN NOT IN A CAMP, CITY, OR DECLARED RESIDENCE. I can already call a pet in a city instantly, but i cant during combat. Why is this all of a sudden being looked at as a method of griefing?

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If you think about it long enough, you'll realize that the best, simplest solution is to add in a delay when not in a city, camp or declared residence. <-- Just start saying that from now on and everything will be great.

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DeneziB wrote:

We're not talking about calling a pet in a metropolitan area. We're talking about calling a pet in the wilderness.

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No, we REALLY are talking about in a metropolitan area, and a camp. We don't want those subject to a timer. Feel free to subject the "wilderness" calls (non-city, non-camp) to a timer. THAT IS FINE. But the CURRENT NO-TIMER LOCATIONS should REMAIN CURRENT NO-TIMER LOCATIONS.

Do you even read before you post DeneziB, or do you just like the way you seem to repeat yourself and skirt the issue? I apologize for "trolling" or "flaming" or what have you, but if you are going to post here, please attempt to follow the discussion and respond rationally.

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DeneziB wrote:

Camps and Metropolitan areas aside, timesinks aside, ... let's pretend they don't exist.

Instead of whining about having to wait for an extra 6 seconds to call a pet. Why don't you put your heads together and think of alternatives to delays?

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The ficticious 6 seconds crops up again. The timer is 30 seconds, the patch notes state this, please have your facts and information straight before you post if you are attempting to be constructive in any fashion.

And please don't give us your (craft time + resource gather time + factory schematic time / camp quantity + button click time x some multiple of Pi = 6 seconds) formula again, it's 30 seconds. The notes state this.

Camps and metro areas are, again, what we are fighting for here (at least what most of us are fighting for here), so you can't brush that aside and have an argument.

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 02-20-2004 11:48 PM

There are only 8 professions in the game capable of setting up camp to call pets. The BENEFIT of having a 30 second timer with the camp restriction lifted is that 24 OTHER professions can now call pets anytime, anywhere. Do you really want to shut out 24 other professions?

Please explain to me the 8 professions that can build a camp. As far as I know there is 1 Novice scout. If you are counting all the professions that require scout you have a fundimental inabaity to grasp profesional ablities.

Now as for the 30 sec timer

Again I will state

There were no camp calling restrictions prior to publish 3 or 4

In fact you could even pull a pet out while in combat. The 30 sec timer is the dev's way of trying to say they are right. The whole reason that the camp requirement really needs to be eliminated is bugs that goes back to GOLD (original publish for public).

Bug #1. the fact that pets have trouble crossing server boundaries without getting hung up.
Bug #2. Auto Store, pets, vehicles, droids all have this problem
Bug #3 The incrediable warping pet/vehicle your pet or vehicel all of a sudden warps 50-1000m away

You still won't be able to pull a pet in combat, now as for your arguments. Most PvP happens in towns I will bet you that there will be no 30Sec delay for calling pets/vehicles in towns or the whole comunity will Cry NERF most fowl.

How is the 30 sec delay gonna fix that exploit. The days of people running faction missions out of bestine or AH and overts hunting these TEF'ed players are long gone (well not as common as they were) In those days I used to keep my pets out to protect me form these opportunists. If pets were as pathetic then as they are now I wouldn't have bothered.

I am a 0/0/0/1 pistoleer. In a recent PvP raid someone was dumb enough to sick a GSP on me. well I took it down, no incap to me. I wasn't buffed just had good armor on and a few well placed heals. The exploit they are so concerned about is nonexistant because CH as a PvP threat is that of a Kreetle to a master Marksman.

The Dev's just refuse to admit that by nerfing CH this badly they eliminated the need for the "exploit fix".


And DeneziB as for you sneak up thing, if they aren't watching their radar and see a red comming up 30 sec won't make a bit of a difference. 10 min won't make a difference if they ar concentrating on blurgs or whatever.

Also explain to me how a speeder would make a difference when 1 person is chaseing 2 targets that go off in different directions, burst run would be just as effective in that case unless you think there should be a 30 sec delay on burst run too, or targets should only be able to run in the same direction.

As for the permuatations of the exploit Been there done that your arguments are pointless if you really wnat to fight against this go look up some posts form august crying about being able to call pets anywhere anytime. FOrm your arguments form real expereance not theory and hyperbole

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DeneziB wrote:

You all don't seem to realize that the game's 30 second wait is a good thing. But when all is said and done, 30 second is ONLY 30 SECONDS! It's like, ... way less than a minute -- half a minute even! What's the big frikkin' deal that's making you babies cry so loud?

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Ok DeneziB a reasonable question even as it is stated. I am not gonna talk in theory I am going to state personal experence.

You are fighting a nest for a mission with your pet/pets. 3 aggros that you can't handle without your pet.

BOOM warp bug hits you. all 3 aggros turn on you. You burst run outta there and clear out.

Try to store your pet:
You cannot store your pet for 45 Seconds

ok 45 second wait to store your pet.

45 seconds later

(normally you would build a camp here but fast forwart to publish 7)

Your pet will spawn in 30 sec

30 sec later

Pet spawns walk back to lair

POOF autostore bug
(at this point my camp had already been abandoned so I had to break out a new one but again fast forward to publish 7)

You pet will spawn in 30 sec.

My point it took me with needing camps 30 min to finish a mission that should have taken me 10 min because of bugs.

They took the ablity for us to call pets anywhere anytime, I agree you should not be able to call a pet while in combat. However the 30 sec timer is their way of begrugingly giving us a "quick fix" to bugs that have existed for 9 months.

Insetad of fixing bugs and problems they have nerfed this profession from a force to be reckoned with to one to be laughed at. For every new feature they give us (that doesn't work anyway) they take away 2-10 features

now if you are worried about imps calling ATST's unfairly well then I have a simple solution.
ELIMINATE THE ATST instead of nerfing CH.
Cause all pets are treated the same excpet CH pets are far inferior.

I see many arguments using "bugs" as a defense.

From a game design, game balance perspective, bugs are irrelevent. You can't design a balanced system due to anomalies which will be sorted out soon or later. It just breaks the system.

It's silly to even mention bugs as a rationale.

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taloncard wrote:

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DeneziB wrote:

You all don't seem to realize that the game's 30 second wait is a good thing. But when all is said and done, 30 second is ONLY 30 SECONDS! It's like, ... way less than a minute -- half a minute even! What's the big frikkin' deal that's making you babies cry so loud?

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Ok DeneziB a reasonable question even as it is stated. I am not gonna talk in theory I am going to state personal experence.

You are fighting a nest for a mission with your pet/pets. 3 aggros that you can't handle without your pet.

BOOM warp bug hits you. all 3 aggros turn on you. You burst run outta there and clear out.

Try to store your pet:
You cannot store your pet for 45 Seconds

ok 45 second wait to store your pet.

45 seconds later

(normally you would build a camp here but fast forwart to publish 7)

Your pet will spawn in 30 sec

30 sec later

Pet spawns walk back to lair

POOF autostore bug
(at this point my camp had already been abandoned so I had to break out a new one but again fast forward to publish 7)

You pet will spawn in 30 sec.

My point it took me with needing camps 30 min to finish a mission that should have taken me 10 min because of bugs.

They took the ablity for us to call pets anywhere anytime, I agree you should not be able to call a pet while in combat. However the 30 sec timer is their way of begrugingly giving us a "quick fix" to bugs that have existed for 9 months.

Insetad of fixing bugs and problems they have nerfed this profession from a force to be reckoned with to one to be laughed at. For every new feature they give us (that doesn't work anyway) they take away 2-10 features

now if you are worried about imps calling ATST's unfairly well then I have a simple solution.
ELIMINATE THE ATST instead of nerfing CH.
Cause all pets are treated the same excpet CH pets are far inferior.

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DeneziB wrote:

You all don't seem to realize that the game's internal mechanism to call creatures, droids, vehicle, faction pets are one in the same. Calling a vehicle is the same as calling a creature. When you say that you spent skill points to call a pet, ... what you really are spending skill points on is for the ability to call a pet within the game's internal mechanism to call objects from your datapad. Any solution regarding the calling of creatures also has to encompass vehicles, droids, faction pets, etc. Hence the 30 second rule because it's the best solution.

My Jedi scenario still stands. Can you imagine 3 overt Imperials sneaking up on a hunting jedi via vehicles and then all three calling their ATSTs to attack him at once when they land on top of him because he has a TEF? A Jedi might be ballsy to stand his ground to fend off 3 overt Imperials, but I highly doubt he would fight the fight if they came running at him with 3 ATSTs from a distance. It doesn't matter if it happens in the wilderness, or in a metropolitan area. Just because it can happen in a metropolitan area currently, doesn't make it any less unfair. It's not.

30 second wait is a good thing. But when all is said and done, 30 second is ONLY 30 SECONDS! It's like, ... way less than a minute -- half a minute even! What's the big frikkin' deal that's making you babies cry so loud?

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30 seconds, multiplied by the number of times I call a pet or vehicle each day = major time sink. If I call something 60 times (not unreasonable in a full day of gaming) I have wasted half an hour waiting on my objects to generate. Compound that with the shuttle wait times, and you have major wasted downtime. That is the "big frikkin' deal."

Your Jedi scenario also is invalid because, once again, this cannot happen currently in the game, and is not further solved by the 30 second timer. 3 overt Imperials cannot sneak up on a Jedi and AT-ST grief. First of all, 3 dots on the radar should tip a Jedi off to get out of there from the moment he sees them. That's first of all. Second of all, if the Imps are on vehicles, they need to get off the bikes. More time for the Jedi to escape. Third of all, to call the AT-STs requires a camp. Even more time for the Jedi to get away. I posted on this above, but you either did not see it or chose to ignore it, so I am offering it again.

This Jedi scenario would also not happen in a metropolitan area unless the Jedi is a complete idiot. Any Jedi with a TEF in a city deserves to chalk up a death count. And it wouldn't take an AT-ST to do that. Simple as that.

Again, please read what we are saying. We WANT a 30 second timer on NON-CITY, NON-CAMP, NON-DECLARED RESIDENCE calling. WE WANT THE TIMER HERE! We do NOT want the timer on CITY, CAMP, OR DECLARED RESIDENCE calling. Please leave these in game as they are now, and do not change them. This simply creates an undue time sink to the whole player base, and most directly the creature handler profession. If you can construct a well thought out argument how it would be "griefing" to allow timerless calling in a city, camp, or declared residence, please tell us. But remember this is what we are trying to do, you are not listening to what 90% of us are saying on this thread, you are simply waving the 30 second timer banner and blindly charging into battle without seeing the actual argument you are attempting to combat. I welcome a direct response, thanks for reading.

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DeneziB wrote:

You all don't seem to realize that the game's internalmechanism to call creatures, droids, vehicle, faction pets are one in the same. Calling a vehicle is the same as calling a creature. When you say that you spent skill points to call a pet, ... what you really are spending skill points on is for the ability to call a pet within the game's internal mechanism to call objects from your datapad. Any solution regarding the calling of creatures also has to encompass vehicles, droids, faction pets, etc. Hence the 30 second rule because it's the best solution.

My Jedi scenario still stands. Can you imagine 3 overt Imperials sneaking up on a hunting jedi via vehicles and then all three calling their ATSTs to attack him at once when they land on top of him because he has a TEF? A Jedimight be ballsy to stand his ground to fend off 3 overt Imperials, but I highly doubt he would fight the fight if they came running at him with 3 ATSTs from a distance.It doesn't matterif it happensin the wilderness, or in a metropolitan area. Just because it can happen in a metropolitan area currently, doesn't make it any less unfair. It's not.

30 second wait is a good thing. But when all is said and done, 30 second is ONLY 30 SECONDS! It's like, ... way less than a minute -- half a minute even! What's the big frikkin' deal that's making you babies cry so loud?

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The internal mechanisms used are totally irrelevant to this disgussion. The game makes a distinction at the moment of calling, otherwise an MCH would be able to call 3 vehicles out at the same time, or 3 AT-STs, since by your logic reasoning nonsense they are all the same thing. The solution simply does not have to be the same for all the different types of data and to attempt to argue otherwise is ridiculous.

Your Jedi example is pathetic (and has now increased to three instead of one because even you realised that was nonsensical). There is nothing whatsoever to stop those exact same players reversing direction a little, starting the pet call, jumping back on their swoops and zooming in to catch this one in a million chance just as the 30 second timer hits. If you don't thinka player experienced enough to consider taking on a Jedi can judge 30 seconds you are very sadly mistaken.

And time and again you resort to trying to ignore the CURRENT ability of any pet user or vehicle owner to call/generate that item with no restriction in a metropolitan area. If this is such a big deal where are all the posts complaining about it? I think we can all agree that there are enough players in this game that complain at the drop of a hat that, if this whole ridiculous notion was actually a problem that there would be at least a dozen threads in the last few months about it. I did a search. I couldn't even find a single post since October complaining about a CH 'griefing' them by suddenly calling a pet at the start of the duel. I'll accept I may have missed the odd one, but I used a fairly generous search string and read a lot of posts. So, if there isn't an issue about it happening at the moment, and people that want to use it to 'grief' (I just love the way a CH using his abilities to catch an opponent off guard is griefing, but a TKA/commando can suddenly transform into a flamethrower wielding armored tank and that's just fine) can just use a stop watch to achieve the exact same result, what, exactly, is the point of it?

1) You really use 2 and a half crates of tents every day? Wow. Try using them less. How did you get the money to buy those tents? If you made them yourself, how did you acquire the resources to craft them? The point is, the use of tents is not a ZERO second time cost ... which goes back to my 6 second argument. I probably call my pets 4-5 times a session. Just play like me and save half an hour. The only ones calling pets 60 times a day are the ones showing off their kimos at the shuttleports, obscuring the field of vision of everyone there. There's no good reason to call a pet 60 times a day. With the 30 second rule, hopefully you'll call them less.

2) Jedi scenario. This is a scenario IF the 30 second rule were not in place, and players can call pets ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. Regarding what you wrote: (1) Tactical assessment by the Jedi Knight (based on only 3 red dots on the radar) led him to believe that he could vanquish them easily, but if these red dots were allowed to become 6 dots instantaneously after the swoops land on top of him, well, then you're using an exploit in the system to affect combat outcome. (2) Read #1, (3) We're not talking about calling them in camps, we're talking about calling them anytime, anywhere when landing on top of the Jedi from swoops.

3) In a Metro area ... the Jedi Scenario applies to TEF'd opposite faction PCs. I'm an Imperial and I walk through the streets of Kor Vella overt and see plenty of TEF'd people running around. They either run when they see me, or they make a tactical assessment to stand their ground. That tactical assessment may be different if I walked the streets with my ATST out, as opposed to pulling it out when I'm 2 meters away from them, which is why applying the 30 second rule to metro areas is a GOOD thing as well, since this type of exploit is possible now.

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Ko-aIri wrote:

30 seconds, multiplied by the number of times I call a pet or vehicle each day = major time sink. If I call something 60 times (not unreasonable in a full day of gaming) I have wasted half an hour waiting on my objects to generate. Compound that with the shuttle wait times, and you have major wasted downtime. That is the "big frikkin' deal."

Your Jedi scenario also is invalid because, once again, this cannot happen currently in the game, and is not further solved by the 30 second timer. 3 overt Imperials cannot sneak up on a Jedi and AT-ST grief. First of all, 3 dots on the radar should tip a Jedi off to get out of there from the moment he sees them. That's first of all. Second of all, if the Imps are on vehicles, they need to get off the bikes. More time for the Jedi to escape. Third of all, to call the AT-STs requires a camp. Even more time for the Jedi to get away. I posted on this above, but you either did not see it or chose to ignore it, so I am offering it again.

This Jedi scenario would also not happen in a metropolitan area unless the Jedi is a complete idiot. Any Jedi with a TEF in a city deserves to chalk up a death count. And it wouldn't take an AT-ST to do that. Simple as that.

Again, please read what we are saying. We WANT a 30 second timer on NON-CITY, NON-CAMP, NON-DECLARED RESIDENCE calling. WE WANT THE TIMER HERE! We do NOT want the timer on CITY, CAMP, OR DECLARED RESIDENCE calling. Please leave these in game as they are now, and do not change them. This simply creates an undue time sink to the whole player base, and most directly the creature handler profession. If you can construct a well thought out argument how it would be "griefing" to allow timerless calling in a city, camp, or declared residence, please tell us. But remember this is what we are trying to do, you are not listening to what 90% of us are saying on this thread, you are simply waving the 30 second timer banner and blindly charging into battle without seeing the actual argument you are attempting to combat. I welcome a direct response, thanks for reading.

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DeneziB wrote:

1) You really use 2 and a half crates of tents every day? Wow. Try using them less. How did you get the money to buy those tents? If you made them yourself, how did you acquire the resources to craft them? The point is, the use of tents is not a ZERO second time cost ... which goes back to my 6 second argument. I probably call my pets 4-5 times a session. Just play like me and save half an hour. The only ones calling pets 60 times a day are the ones showing off their kimos at the shuttleports, obscuring the field of vision of everyone there. There's no good reason to call a pet 60 times a day. With the 30 second rule, hopefully you'll call them less.

2) Jedi scenario. This is a scenario IF the 30 second rule were not in place, and players can call pets ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. Regarding what you wrote: (1) Tactical assessment by the Jedi Knight (based on only 3 red dots on the radar) led him to believe that he could vanquish them easily, but if these red dots were allowed to become 6 dots instantaneously after the swoops land on top of him, well, then you're using an exploit in the system to affect combat outcome. (2) Read #1, (3) We're not talking about calling them in camps, we're talking about calling them anytime, anywhere when landing on top of the Jedi from swoops.

3) In a Metro area ... the Jedi Scenario applies to TEF'd opposite faction PCs. I'm an Imperial and I walk through the streets of Kor Vella overt and see plenty of TEF'd people running around. They either run when they see me, or they make a tactical assessment to stand their ground. That tactical assessment may be different if I walked the streets with my ATST out, as opposed to pulling it out when I'm 2 meters away from them, which is why applying the 30 second rule to metro areas is a GOOD thing as well, since this type of exploit is possible now.

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No, I don't use 60 tents a day. In fact, I use about 10 of my own, plus maybe some of my friends' tents if we are in a group. I call my vehicle in a city, I call my vehicle in a camp, I call my droid in my house, I call my pets in a city, I call my pets in a camp, I call my droid in a camp. I do not "show off my kimo at the shuttleport." I play a game, I don't grief other players. If I play 8 hours, and my claim is 60 calls per day, that's 7.5 calls per hour. Let's analyze that:

Take a shuttle, get to a city. Call speeder to travel. Get to a location where I need my pet, store speeder to prevent it from being destroyed if I am incapacitated. Make camp, call the pet. Finish objective, store the pet. Make camp to call my speeder again. Fly back to the city. Store my bike, talk to some friends. Call my droid to get something out of storage. Take a shuttle, go to another city. Call speeder to travel. Speeder stores while I'm browsing at a shop, so I have to call my mount to get back. Call mount. Back to the city. Call speeder, travel out looking for rare pet to tame.

That's 7 calls. In this situation, all this could occur in under an hour quite easily. Therefore, 7.5 calls per hour is not unreasonable, nor is it uncommon. I shouldn't have to adapt my play style to play "like you." Why would you say something like "With the 30 second rule, hopefully you'll call them less?" Is this because you anticipate that people will drop CH because of this change, therefore having less reason to call any pets?

As far as the Jedi scenario goes, AS I SAID your point is irrelevant. We ARE NOT talking about removing the 30 second rule. Let me make this real clear for you. Please read, read again, read again, and try to comprehend.

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WE DO NOT OPPOSE THE 30 SECOND TIMER IN WILDERNESS AREAS
This is very fair, because EVERYONE is being given a new, innate ability.

WE OPPOSE ANY TIMER IN A CITY, CAMP, OR DECLARED RESIDENCE
This is because keeping it as-is continues to reward scouts for having the campmaking ability, does not create the time sinks listed above for ANYONE, and is EXACTLY THE SAME as current abilities. The current system has not, to my knowledge nor the knowledge of anyone so far posting here it would seem, caused griefing situations.

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Someone with a TEF who dies to a faction pet, or a commando, still dies. Is it griefing as an overt to whip out a flamethrower and burn a TEF'd rebel who is killing stormtroopers? If you answered yes, then the entire GCW and TEF system is a grief and needs to be eliminated. Also, if you are already in combat, you cannot call a pet, faction or otherwise. Therefore, if the person charges you shooting because they assessed you are someone they could take on, you are not going to be able to pull your precious AT-ST to whomp him "by surprise." This is how the CURRENT SYSTEM WORKS, which is why there is no griefing caused. If you are overt and they are TEF'd, you're not going to get within 2 meters of them and spring anything out of your pocket, because they'd either run or have attacked you by then, thereby eliminating your "surprise" AT-ST. If they don't run or fight, they must be AFK or have crashed. No TEF'd person is going to stand there and let you get that close.

Regardless, I can tell by the general trend you have of repeating the same argument without actually addressing the issue, as well as the tone you take and the fact that you seem more interested in fighting against "REMOVAL OF THE 30 SECOND RULE IN ALL CASES" than "REMOVAL OF THE 30 SECOND RULE IN CASES OF CAMP, CITY OR RESIDENCE", you are not fighting us and therefore should find a new thread to argue in. The majority of posters on this thread are currently fighting for "REMOVAL OF THE 30 SECOND RULE IN CASES OF CAMP, CITY OR RESIDENCE," which again you don't even seem to acknowledge. We consider the 30 second rule fair, balanced, and a "good thing" in cases of non-camp, non-city use. If you are getting something for free that normally requires a skill (scout) it is good to penalize the freeloader somewhat. The scout (camp-maker) should not be penalized.

I refuse to bicker any further with someone who cannot even attempt to justify their position with factual information about current game rules, playstyle and abilities and who will not discuss the information that has been presented here by many intelligent and informed players. I've brought myself down to your level, and it's time to stop. Enjoy your blind ranting, and I hope someday you may understand what it is we are all saying here and how it (the timer) affects everyone in a negative way.

I apologize to other readers if they take my comments as trolling or flaming or what have you, as I simply tried best as I could to make this person understand what is being said here, and obviously it was a lost cause. Some people just can't be reached. Rest assured I will no longer be posting to this thread. The big troll ate me.

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 02-21-2004 01:37 AM

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 02-21-2004 01:41 AM

I won't respond to everything because it's already been covered. You think one way. I think another. 30 seconds is not a long time to wait. The people who think it is are the impatient types who experience road rage just from waiting for a red light to turn green. The Dev's statements agree with my way of thinking. I win.

However, it doesn't seem like you undersand how the TEF system works. If a person is flagged with a TEF, then that person is attackable, yet cannot attack. So I could drive up to a TEF flagged person on my swoop and instantly call out my ATST after landing on top of him anytime, because combat hasn't started yet.

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Ko-aIri wrote:

No, I don't use 60 tents a day. In fact, I use about 10 of my own, plus maybe some of my friends' tents if we are in a group. I call my vehicle in a city, I call my vehicle in a camp, I call my droid in my house, I call my pets in a city, I call my pets in a camp, I call my droid in a camp. I do not "show off my kimo at the shuttleport." I play a game, I don't grief other players. If I play 8 hours, and my claim is 60 calls per day, that's 7.5 calls per hour. Let's analyze that:

Take a shuttle, get to a city. Call speeder to travel. Get to a location where I need my pet, store speeder to prevent it from being destroyed if I am incapacitated. Make camp, call the pet. Finish objective, store the pet. Make camp to call my speeder again. Fly back to the city. Store my bike, talk to some friends. Call my droid to get something out of storage. Take a shuttle, go to another city. Call speeder to travel. Speeder stores while I'm browsing at a shop, so I have to call my mount to get back. Call mount. Back to the city. Call speeder, travel out looking for rare pet to tame.

That's 7 calls. In this situation, all this could occur in under an hour quite easily. Therefore, 7.5 calls per hour is not unreasonable, nor is it uncommon. I shouldn't have to adapt my play style to play "like you." Why would you say something like "With the 30 second rule, hopefully you'll call them less?" Is this because you anticipate that people will drop CH because of this change, therefore having less reason to call any pets?

As far as the Jedi scenario goes, AS I SAID your point is irrelevant. We ARE NOT talking about removing the 30 second rule. Let me make this real clear for you. Please read, read again, read again, and try to comprehend.

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WE DO NOT OPPOSE THE 30 SECOND TIMER IN WILDERNESS AREAS
This is very fair, because EVERYONE is being given a new, innate ability.

WE OPPOSE ANY TIMER IN A CITY, CAMP, OR DECLARED RESIDENCE
This is because keeping it as-is continues to reward scouts for having the campmaking ability, does not create the time sinks listed above for ANYONE, and is EXACTLY THE SAME as current abilities. The current system has not, to my knowledge nor the knowledge of anyone so far posting here it would seem, caused griefing situations.

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Someone with a TEF who dies to a faction pet, or a commando, still dies. Is it griefing as an overt to whip out a flamethrower and burn a TEF'd rebel who is killing stormtroopers? If you answered yes, then the entire GCW and TEF system is a grief and needs to be eliminated. Also, if you are already in combat, you cannot call a pet, faction or otherwise. Therefore, if the person charges you shooting because they assessed you are someone they could take on, you are not going to be able to pull your precious AT-ST to whomp him "by surprise." This is how the CURRENT SYSTEM WORKS, which is why there is no griefing caused. If you are overt and they are TEF'd, you're not going to get within 2 meters of them and spring anything out of your pocket, because they'd either run or have attacked you by then, thereby eliminating your "surprise" AT-ST. If they don't run or fight, they must be AFK or have crashed. No TEF'd person is going to stand there and let you get that close.

Regardless, I can tell by the general trend you have of repeating the same argument without actually addressing the issue, as well as the tone you take and the fact that you seem more interested in fighting against "REMOVAL OF THE 30 SECOND RULE IN ALL CASES" than "REMOVAL OF THE 30 SECOND RULE IN CASES OF CAMP, CITY OR RESIDENCE", you are not fighting us and therefore should find a new thread to argue in. The majority of posters on this thread are currently fighting for "REMOVAL OF THE 30 SECOND RULE IN CASES OF CAMP, CITY OR RESIDENCE," which again you don't even seem to acknowledge. We consider the 30 second rule fair, balanced, and a "good thing" in cases of non-camp, non-city use. If you are getting something for free that normally requires a skill (scout) it is good to penalize the freeloader somewhat. The scout (camp-maker) should not be penalized.

I refuse to bicker any further with someone who cannot even attempt to justify their position with factual information about current game rules, playstyle and abilities and who will not discuss the information that has been presented here by many intelligent and informed players. I've brought myself down to your level, and it's time to stop. Enjoy your blind ranting, and I hope someday you may understand what it is we are all saying here and how it (the timer) affects everyone in a negative way.

I apologize to other readers if they take my comments as trolling or flaming or what have you, as I simply tried best as I could to make this person understand what is being said here, and obviously it was a lost cause. Some people just can't be reached. Rest assured I will no longer be posting to this thread. The big troll ate me.

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 02-21-2004 01:37 AM

Message Edited by Ko-aIri on 02-21-2004 01:41 AM

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