Community Relations Archive

Thread: Communication Breakdown: TEF Removal

JEST3R
Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:19 pm
#105






jphillips1868 wrote:
Eqsanctum,

That is interesting that there was a concept thread in beta. But since most people weren't in beta, that doesn't really address my concern.





I just cannot agree your concern is valid... I mean IN DEVELOPMENT is the forum designed to communiate and alert players of upcomming changes




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ggggg4 JEST3R Retired GCW Correspondent



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Raptor2k1
Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:31 pm
#106

Err, wasn't there a dev thread posted ages back asking for TEF repacement ideas? I really don't see where the communication problem is.



Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum


jphillips1868
Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:33 pm
#107

Omadnay,

Thanks for the link to TH's post. In hindsight, his statement about the PvE GCW should have been a clue as to what the Devs were thinking. I vaguley remember reading that post, but it was disclaimed to such an extent I didn't take it too seriously. I'll have to look that such musing type Dev post more carefully in the future. Lesson learned I guess.

JEST3R,

I guess we just disagree, but I don't think what I am asking for is unreasonable.

Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 06:36 PM

neinnunb
Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:38 pm
#108

Err, wasn't there a dev thread posted ages back asking for TEF repacement ideas? I really don't see where the communication problem is.

Yes there was I remember that post. I searched for it but cant remember where it was. Thats another example of the great communication recently.



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Soln
Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:40 pm
#109






Barb-Wire wrote:


i find the way your communicating now compaired to 3 months ago top notch. it hasnt been in a higher more informative state than when the gme began. my comments were directed at those who would nay-say CTD fixes no matter how they are communicated.


what your doing now with giving us info in a timely fashion with massive follow up is very very very good. sometimes it just seems that the negative posts are dwelt on more than the positive.






I agree. Lots of positive, mature, professional improvements. Keep it up. Thanks.




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pimptrooper
Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:14 pm
#110

TEFs need to go. If you want to pvp go overt. Very simple.



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Adonus
Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:55 pm
#111


jphillips1868 wrote:
I am very dissappointed that the community was not given advance notice that SOE was considering removing the TEF and thus an opportunity to give feedback on that possibility. Whenever the Dev team decided this was something it was interested in doing, there should have been a post to the effect that SOE is considering removing the TEF and seeking the community's input on that propsal. The TEF is a fundamental game mechanic. And while I understand, but don't necessarily agree with, the Dev reluctance to release details until they are all but set in stone, you could have at least give us notice of the high level concept. I consider this a tremendous step backward in the effort to improve player-dev communications. For a change this fundamental and controversial, feedback from the correspondents simply isn't enough. This is in stark contrast to the way you have handled the CURB. I hope this type of communication will not be the trend. Regardless of how you feel about removing the TEF, more discussion is needed for such a high level change. Calandryll, I would appreciate your commenting on this as it really casts a shadow on your effort to revamp player-dev communications.
Had there been an in concept post and discussion a month ago the high level concept of removing TEFs could have been disucssedeither the Devs could have convienced those for TEFs or we could have convinced the Devs. At the very least we would have had some time to digest this change.

Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 09:59 AM

Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 02:02 PM






jphillips1868,

Your claims are simply not true. Don't get too bent out of shape man. Calandryll_SOE stated a couple of good, true points in his reply to you that make this evident:

1.) A large part of the community has begged for TEF removal for a LONG time.

2.) These changes are NOT in place now, they have given us this information ahead of time and they are gathering feedback in the meantime before it even gets to test center.

The way I see it, they have communicated this information the best possible way it could have been communicated. The only way I'd lay any sympathy to your point-of-view would be if all of a sudden one day we were all downloading a patch with these changes in it without any foremention from the devs or feedback gathering, but alas, this is not the case.

To all the devs:

GOOD WORK! I applaud you all for the level of service, which you have stepped up MANY notches, in the past few weeks. Keep up the good work, we're all rootin' for ya!

Message Edited by Adonus on 02-03-2005 05:58 PM

PramieJager
Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:14 pm
#112


I'm glad to see they are making improvements andattempting to remove/fix the problems that allowed players to abuse in game systems in ways they weren't intended.


I feel the anouncement is a first step in communicating with the players what they intend to do to fix problems, and we shall see more on this as time goes by.


As I was going to post in the mentioned post which was locked, wait till the changes are at least in a test phaseand player testers can see how the new system works before getting worked up and starting petitions to undo them.


I'm more fed up with the people that complain, just to complain, than I am the problems in the game.


They are attempting to make SWG friendly to players who like to PVE and allow PvP at the same time. When changes are made to make the game enjoyable for all play styles some compromises must be made. The TEF system may require changes for other reasons we are not yet aware of, parts of the CU and GCWU that have not yet been made public.


When I'm overt I like to help fellow Rebels kill, or defend themselves against Imperial attack. In the new system I will still be able to do this for fellow overts against Imp NPC's and overt players. If the trade off for not getting jumped when accidently TEF'ed when I don't feel like being overt is that Rebel NPC's can be killed by a covert Imp, so be it. Just like the Imp NPC can be killed by covert Rebs....fair is fair IMO.


I like SWG. Could it be better? Sure.


I like JTL. Could it be better? Sure.


I'm willing to let them try to make improvements and see how they work before I declare them wrong.



Yager -AR-


Marus-Timpel LOK

kobie173 wrote: We are not MMO players for the most part, we are Star Wars fans.


XBlue
Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:38 pm
#113







Calandryll_SOE wrote:


Decisions are rarely final unless they are already in the game...and even then, things can change. If we get overwhelming negative feedback on an idea, we change it or reconsider it. We do our best to avoid proposing ideas that we know will be hated by a large majority of our players and our Correspondents do an excellent job helping us with that.Very few, if any, changes are ever universally liked.




You people honestly think we believe that?You never change your minds even if everyone hates your ideas.


Oh how I love this thread http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dev_archive&message.id=57736


That right there proves my point to the fullest,as you can plainly see from the "overwhelming negative feedback" shown there.






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-Smokey-
Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:06 am
#114

If you keep a look out on the dev tracker you will discover threads where these things are discussed.
Heres an example of one.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=293457&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
Wyeth-SB
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:17 am
#115

I'm glad to see the TEF system go since it was used for griefing. I like the new system.



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Althus_Alen
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:29 am
#116



jphillips1868 wrote:


While whether or not we should get rid of TEFs isnt' the topic of this thread, the adequency of the communciation on the change is the issue here.

But I disagree with you. In fact, i don't PvP very much and certainly I am not a G-TEF griefer. I have no problem getting rid of the G-TEF. My reason for wanting to keep the TEF is for the same reason it was in the game in the first place, immersion into the SW world. Getting rid fo the TEF destroys immersion in the sense a faciton player sees a PvE player destroying his faction's NPCs and can't help.

Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 01:12 PM





Are you permanently overt? If not, then the situation you describe must happen all the time. Since you say you don't PvP much, you most likely are not permanently overt. Therefore what exactly is your problem?

The TEF system has been the subject of debate since beta, as people who had no desire to PvP were forced into a situation where they had to if they wanted to engage in fights involving iconic movie enemies. Not everyone wants to PvP, but a lot of people bought the game to fight in the SW universe and that includes fighting Stormtroopers etc.

I enjoy PvP in games, but the TEF system was definitly a problem. I don't want to fight someone who has not made the conscious choice of also wanting to fight real players. I also don't want to fight someone who has been forced to PvP due to the Devs restricting access to fundamental parts of the SW universe to PvP only. Anyone who played UO before the Felucca/Trammel split can tell you what a disaster (in terms of gameplay and retaining customers) forcing people to PvP was. Personally I loved UO in those days but I realise that is not for everyone.

The new PvP system will mean that people who want to PvP still can, so we are losing nothing but the ability to ruin another players gaming session by forced PvP. Seems good to me.
JEST3R
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:42 am
#117

Ahhh This sort of thing has been debated over and over and over, a plethora of ideas were suggested, some complex, others not so....


But Overt vs Overt is something the players were calling for a long while...


Heres a link to one of the more expansive debate threads from 2003.


Community TEF discussions

Message Edited by JEST3R on 02-03-2005 12:46 PM




ggggg4 Kurzzun Starfire Bounty Hunter
ggggg4 JEST3R Retired GCW Correspondent



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