Community Relations Archive

Thread: Communication Breakdown: TEF Removal

KyleKnox
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:42 am
#118

TEF has to go. It was a flawed mechanic from the beginning. We have been testing it for 1.5 years now in live and found it lacking. Its about time the devs stepped up and took leadership on the issue.



Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master
Calandryll_SOE
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:58 am
#119






jphillips1868 wrote:






Barb-Wire wrote:







i wouldnt worry too much about the negatives on this one. the only folks who hate this are the G-Tef griefers. and far as im concerned if they quit over this the game is better off without that source of grief.





While whether or not we should get rid of TEFs isnt' the topic of this thread, theadequency of the communciation on the change is theissue here.





Hey folks, I just want to reiterate that jphillips1868 post is not about whether TEF Is good or bad, rather how we communicate it. While I don't agree that we communicated it poorly, I would appreciate it if people kept their comments to communications, rather than debating whether TEFs should be removed. Let's keep that discussion to the In Development thread.


Thanks.


Ragmop
Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:17 am
#120

I think TEF removial is a good idea. I do not want to do PVP but I enjoy fighting opposing NPCs. Now I will be able to do tthis without fear of getting jumped.




Po-Mo
Old Dirty Bastards
Master Pistoleer| Master Doctor
Alliance Colonel & Ace Pilot
jphillips1868
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:50 am
#121






Adonus wrote:



jphillips1868,

Your claims are simply not true. Don't get too bent out of shape man. Calandryll_SOE stated a couple of good, true points in his reply to you that make this evident:

1.) A large part of the community has begged for TEF removal for a LONG time.


Your point is well taken and afterreading all of thevarious threads on thisissue over the last 2 days, I've come to the realization that I never fully comprehended the level of discontent with the TEF. I definitely saw threads on this going way back but always discounted theseas isolated and generally being unreasonable becuase1). itis soeasy to avoid a TEF, and2)even when you get a TEF,ifyou arecareful,you can easily avoid PvP. Previously, the only widespread disconent with the TEF I was aware of was with the GTEF. Clearly I was mistaken as to the mood of the community. That being said, the fact that many players wanted to change this system doesn't mean the Devs are considering doing anything about this issue.Orat leastit didn't beforeWednesday.


So if big changes are going to be made in future with a in concept level discussion by the Devs the burden is now to post on EVERY single topic that others complain about, but I would like to stay the same.I was content with the TEF, so I didn't post on it to say lets keep it. Lesson learned.



2.) These changes are NOT in place now, they have given us this information ahead of time and they are gathering feedback in the meantime before it even gets to test center.


The problem I have is that the Devs are pretty far down the process. I would rather have an opportunity to give feedback BEFORE they waste coding time on the change.


The way I see it, they have communicated this information the best possible way it could have been communicated. The only way I'd lay any sympathy to your point-of-view would be if all of a sudden one day we were all downloading a patch with these changes in it without any foremention from the devs or feedback gathering, but alas, this is not the case.


We will just have to agree to disagree on that one, but apparently many more people agree with you.

To all the devs:

GOOD WORK! I applaud you all for the level of service, which you have stepped up MANY notches, in the past few weeks. Keep up the good work, we're all rootin' for ya!


Message Edited by Adonus on 02-03-2005 05:58 PM





Yogol
Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:50 am
#122

My question about al this is : who came up with the name "on leave", who approved it and is it final.


Being "on leave" is the only way to ensure that Stormtroopers don't shoot you on sight. If you use this game mecanism on the movies, that would mean that Han and Luke and Leia and Obi-Wan were on "on leave" from the rebellion for half of the time. That is aREALLY REALLY REALLY silly way of naming it. "Theseare thedroids you're looking for, but they are on leave". Come on !



000000000000
000000000000Yogol Elder Jedi.
000000000000
000000000000Yoggie Trader on Corellia -320 -5500.
000000000000
000000000000Yogu Wannebe Medic.
000000000000

Cookie Cruncher.
jphillips1868
Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:29 am
#123

This thread as gotten pretty serious. I thought I would lighten it up with some humor.




TEF WARS:


The Galaxy is once again plunged again into turmoil


An Army of Carbearshas invaded all of the Core Systems


Chants of PvE for You and Me are heard throughout the known worlds


An unlikely alliance has been formed between the Gankers and


the Immersion Geeks to fight the onslaught


The Dev Lords sit in their palace and watch the battle unfold. . .
Qui-Gonzalez
Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:25 am
#124






jphillips1868 wrote:

This thread as gotten pretty serious. I thought I would lighten it up with some humor.




TEF WARS:


The Galaxy is once again plunged again into turmoil


An Army of Carbearshas invaded all of the Core Systems


Chants of PvE for You and Me are heard throughout the known worlds


An unlikely alliance has been formed between the Gankers and


the Immersion Geeks to fight the onslaught


The Dev Lords sit in their palace and watch the battle unfold. . .







That's how you "lighten it up"? You said it before yourself, actually one post up. The Devs hinted around that this was coming and there were many discussions about it before the final "fix" came in. With this system, the PvPers can coexist with the PvEers. I like to mix it up both ways myself, but most of my content for PvP has come from hunting Jedi(Currently reitred for the time being) and it got ridiculous that the Padawans at low level ran around with all manner of bodyguards and helpers. The fact is, this greatly affects BH v Jedi and I like it. No more Jedi grinding on bugged stormtrooper spawns like they do on my server.


Is it a carebear mentality to offer all players a choice in what they choose to do, PvP or PvE? Should their be consequences in PvE actiosn, yes, make the PvE mobs a bit harder than they are now so farming is harder. That will have to wait for the CURB, but with this fix, it gives a majority of players what they wantedmost; a meaningful GCW.




Gonz
~ Eclipse's resident Stick-in-the-Mud!~
The "Edit" feature is of the Dark Side..

Guamarhea
Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:34 am
#125

Stir, stir, stir the pot...


I think this whole thread has outlived it's usefulness. In spite of repeated explanations, the author (and others) will be unable to fully accept that the thousands of posts regarding TEFs were sufficient for the Dev's to take action without making new announcements.


I hereby claim this thread in the name of Caballo de Muerto...lett the floggings commence! Arriba!





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jphillips1868
Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:35 am
#126






Qui-Gonzalez wrote:





That's how you "lighten it up"? You said it before yourself, actually one post up. The Devs hinted around that this was coming and there were many discussions about it before the final "fix" came in. With this system, the PvPers can coexist with the PvEers. I like to mix it up both ways myself, but most of my content for PvP has come from hunting Jedi(Currently reitred for the time being) and it got ridiculous that the Padawans at low level ran around with all manner of bodyguards and helpers. The fact is, this greatly affects BH v Jedi and I like it. No more Jedi grinding on bugged stormtrooper spawns like they do on my server.


Is it a carebear mentality to offer all players a choice in what they choose to do, PvP or PvE? Should their be consequences in PvE actiosn, yes, make the PvE mobs a bit harder than they are now so farming is harder. That will have to wait for the CURB, but with this fix, it gives a majority of players what they wantedmost; a meaningful GCW.






I guess even my attempt at humor failed./sigh


I wasn't attacking people who prefer PvE, at least not specifically. I was try to make fun of everyone, including myself. I consider myself in the "immersion geek" category. I refered to the PvPers not as such, but playing to the stereo type that all PvEers are griefers. So if my post offended you I am sorry. It wasn't intended to. I just seem to be way out sync with most of the rest of the community on this issue.

Guamarhea
Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:53 am
#127

No, no, I'M the one that was stirring the pot



_____________________________________________
Specialized Services, LLC Details Here
Guamarhea Bals (Owner)
Siev Nebl (Chief Engineer)
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jphillips1868
Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:16 am
#128






Guamarhea wrote:

No, no, I'M the one that was stirring the pot






LOL. I guess I missed that. I'm so used to being on the defensive in this thread I just assumed that was directed at me.
DeQuosaek
Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:23 pm
#129






XBlue wrote:






Calandryll_SOE wrote:


Decisions are rarely final unless they are already in the game...and even then, things can change. If we get overwhelming negative feedback on an idea, we change it or reconsider it. We do our best to avoid proposing ideas that we know will be hated by a large majority of our players and our Correspondents do an excellent job helping us with that.Very few, if any, changes are ever universally liked.





You people honestly think we believe that?You never change your minds even if everyone hates your ideas.


Oh how I love this thread http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dev_archive&message.id=57736


That right there proves my point to the fullest,as you can plainly see from the "overwhelming negative feedback" shown there.



There was a crafting change that went live that nearly everyone disliked and it was changed after only one or two days. Do you honestly think they are simply trying to ruin the game that is responsible for their livelihood for no good reason?





Some of my pet peeve bugs:
•Armorsmith protection layers were not converted with the CU.
•Ship Details window does not close when you click "Travel" resulting in the message "You have lost the target. Closing interface."

Althus_Alen
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:38 pm
#130



jphillips1868 wrote:
<

I guess even my attempt at humor failed. /sigh

I wasn't attacking people who prefer PvE, at least not specifically. I was try to make fun of everyone, including myself. I consider myself in the "immersion geek" category. I refered to the PvPers not as such, but playing to the stereo type that all PvEers are griefers. So if my post offended you I am sorry. It wasn't intended to. I just seem to be way out sync with most of the rest of the community on this issue.






Since you appear to have not noticed my earlier post, I say again - you are not an "immersion geek".

You are not perma overt (in fact barely ever overt judging by your statements) so the event you define as immersion breaking must happen ALL the time to you under the current system. If you were mostly overt you might have a point, but you are not.

I'm sorry, but since you cannot give a reason for keeping the TEF we can only assume it's because you want to attack without warning players who have no interest in PvP. Your immersion argument lacks any sense due to your covert status. If I am wrong, please let us know precisely why you want to keep the current form of TEF, including your rationale of why it's not immersion breaking when you don't want to be attacked but it is when you want to attack someone else.

On the topic of SOE/player communications, the issue of TEFs has been discussed to death for years by both Devs and players. It was a design mistake and is now being fixed.
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