Community Relations Archive
Thread: Communication Breakdown: TEF Removal
Calandryll_SOE wrote:Decisions are rarely final unless they are already in the game...and even then, things can change. If we get overwhelming negative feedback on an idea, we change it or reconsider it. We do our best to avoid proposing ideas that we know will be hated by a large majority of our players and our Correspondents do an excellent job helping us with that. Very few, if any, changes are ever universally liked.
jphillips1868 wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:Actually, we spent a lot of time reading threads about TEFs on the various boards when deciding to do this. The removal of TEFs is something that many players have been talking about for quite some time.The updates are posted now so players can see the designs and give us feedback. The TEF changes are still in development and won't appear on Test Center until after Publish 13.0.And I am sure you read the many post that feel TEFs need to remain in the game as well, but I guess those weren't given as much weight.
But my question is then, is at this stage of the process, are you open to reversing the high level concept decision to remove TEFs or is the purpose of the feedback just to work out how the details will work? If you aren't open to that kind of feedback at this stage, my point stands. But if as I fear, the decision has already been made and set in stone, this is a situation that needs to be improved upon for future changes. Otherwise, you are just going to alienate more and more of your playerbase, but not giving them meaningful input.
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 12:01 PM
Oh you can be sure that you'll get flak about this decision from every player who enjoys PK'ing. They have been throwing fits about things like this since the days of UO until now. And from those days until now and for the forseeable future, they will remain the MINORITY in their opinions about any limitations on their ability to attack anyone they want.
Hmm, I'm still up in the air on the improved spawn one. More negative then positive actually. Why? It took me 15 minutes of trying to lure off spawns to be able to empty & maintain a harvester a few nights back. Heaven forbid trying to place harvesters with the huge no-build footprint that large numbers of lairs create. Nerf the spawn? God no! Reduce lair footprint if anything. But buffs and calling in combat hitmen to take out lairs has become a must for non-combat surveyers. Hopefully my associates won't raise prices too much because of this.
RedDragon133 wrote:
liked by all? hmm, let me think?:
- 80 itmes in inventory
- no lots on multipassanger ships
- improved spawn
- fixed rubberbanding
- more items in houses and reduced lots requirement
- np apps
- politician free of skillpoints
I cannot think of anybody who will not like those
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Decisions are rarely final unless they are already in the game...and even then, things can change. If we get overwhelming negative feedback on an idea, we change it or reconsider it. We do our best to avoid proposing ideas that we know will be hated by a large majority of our players and our Correspondents do an excellent job helping us with that.Very few, if any, changes are ever universally liked.
Somejediguy wrote:
Bottom line is this - SWG is a GAME!
Games are played for enjoyment. Now PvPers can attack other PvPers. PvEers can play PvE. This is exactly as it should be. This allows all players to play how they want (and pay) to.
That said, jediare a special case and are going to need a lot of special consideration.
Honestly, if you drag folks into something they don't want, you are a griefer. Get help. This is for EVERYONE's enjoyment folks. Not just yours.
Morik
Been saying this for a long time.
Owen-Lars wrote:
Actually there was lots of feedback on TEF removal. Infact the current set up went through alot of revisions from what the corrs said and the devs were most definatly listening and discussing.
End of the day,TEF removal fits in line with what SW is all about. EVERYONE is involved in the war in one way or another. Forcing someone to be 'exposed' to a pvp system just to participate is wrong as not all share that playstyle for alot of reasons.
I do like pvp (well not in this game YET, but in everyone other game ive played) and i cant see the problems with spliting the GCW into pvp and non pvp. This is not the GCW revamp, its just a 'put me on' until the GCW revamp so the developement wont stop here for sure. Im very pleased with the concept that my friends can 'try' pvp when they want to but still participate in the gcw in a meaningful way.
Killing someone who doesnt want to be open to attack or participate in pvp is no fun. Its dishonourable and acomplishing nothing but highlighting your desire to impact negatively on someone playtime. Take away TEFs and split the system between pvp/pve and you have a system everyone can enjoy and participate in.
Buy yeah there was feedback, lots of revisions and plenty of discussion in the corr boards prior to this change being made public knowledge.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 02-03-2005 05:38 PM
From your persepctive, there was lots of feedback, but you have access to the correspodent forums and we do not. I guess I have a problem with anyfundamental change, whetherI agree with it or not,of this magnitude togamebeing designed in secret without letting the players as a whole and not just the correspondents, know that you are considering change that aspect of the game. It would be like never annoucning there will be a CURB, and then one day a couple weeks before it goes on test, SOE announcingwe are going to implement this CURB and here is what it its all about.
Its one thing to consult with the correspondents in secret on the details, but telling the players the the big picture, but quite another to keep us in the dark on the details and the big picture until the end of the process.
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 01:14 PM
Barb-Wire wrote:
i wouldnt worry too much about the negatives on this one. the only folks who hate this are the G-Tef griefers. and far as im concerned if they quit over this the game is better off without that source of grief.
While whether or not we should get rid of TEFs isnt' the topic of this thread, theadequency of the communciation on the change is theissue here.
But I disagree with you. In fact, i don't PvP very much and certainlyI am not a G-TEF griefer. I have no problem getting ridof the G-TEF. My reason for wanting tokeep theTEF is for the same reason it was in the game inthe first place, immersion into the SW world.Getting rid fo theTEF destroys immersion in the sense a faciton player sees a PvE player destroyinghis faction's NPCsand can't help.
Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 01:12 PM
PVP should be the players choice if they what to take part... then go overt... simple option.
As a player who enjoys playing "covert" being forced into PVP via TEF is just too much...
Thats my side of it...
jphillips1868 wrote:
From your persepctive, there was lots of feedback, but you have access to the correspodent forums and we do not. I guess I have a problem with anyfundamental change, whetherI agree with it or not,of this magnitude togamebeing designed in secret without letting the players as a whole and not just the correspondents. It would be like never annoucning there will be a CURB, and then one day a couple weeks before it goes on test, we are going to implement this CURB and here is what it its all about.
This is a false analogy. This change is not the CU, it is not even the GCW revamp. This is much closer to the "Make the Game More Fun" patch coming out that increases inv limits, removes lot requirements for Mp ships, etc. Based on the history of feedback from players, they KNEW that the vast majority would welcome these changes.
Those in favor of TEF fall into two camps, I would guess: Imersion people and PKers. I would wager that of the group, PKers outnumber immersion folks 3 to 1 or more.
I just hope that this vocal minority does not overturn this great change to the game.
jphillips1868 wrote:While whether or not we should get rid of TEFs isnt' the topic of this thread, I disagree with you. In fact, i don't PvP very much and certainly I am not a G-TEF griefer. I have no problem getting rid of the G-TEF. My reason for wanting to keep the TEF is for the same reason it was in the game in the first place, immersion into the SW world. Getting rid fo the TEF destroys immersion.
Barb-Wire wrote:i wouldnt worry too much about the negatives on this one. the only folks who hate this are the G-Tef griefers. and far as im concerned if they quit over this the game is better off without that source of grief.
No, it doesn't. Immersion will be just fine. In fact it will be better because people will now get involved and the game world will no longer be the quite dead silence it is now. Right now immersion is destroyed because nobody is willing to put up with the "I pwned ju!" people and go find non-factioned, non-GCW things to do.
/bsFilterOn
I'm sorry but this is a lame justification for keeping the ability to grief. And its been heard lots of times from lots of griefers all the way back to the day every thing started with the launch of Ultima Online.
/bsFilterOff