Community Relations Archive
Thread: Communication Breakdown: TEF Removal
Hegnauer
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:34 am
#27
Uh, yeah. PvP isn't going away, TEFs are. People who don't like getting their ass handed to them by some buffed up uber l33t bounty hunter don't have to get griefed anymore. There's more than one playstule out there, and no one is taking their ball and going home.
BaronJedi
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:34 am
#28
My only issue is this....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=304059
I can live with TEFs devs...but come on....
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:36 am
#29
Actually there was lots of feedback on TEF removal. Infact the current set up went through alot of revisions from what the corrs said and the devs were most definatly listening and discussing.
End of the day,TEF removal fits in line with what SW is all about. EVERYONE is involved in the war in one way or another. Forcing someone to be 'exposed' to a pvp system just to participate is wrong as not all share that playstyle for alot of reasons.
I do like pvp (well not in this game YET, but in everyone other game ive played) and i cant see the problems with spliting the GCW into pvp and non pvp. This is not the GCW revamp, its just a 'put me on' until the GCW revamp so the developement wont stop here for sure. Im very pleased with the concept that my friends can 'try' pvp when they want to but still participate in the gcw in a meaningful way.
Killing someone who doesnt want to be open to attack or participate in pvp is no fun. Its dishonourable and acomplishing nothing but highlighting your desire to impact negatively on someone playtime. Take away TEFs and split the system between pvp/pve and you have a system everyone can enjoy and participate in.
Buy yeah there was feedback, lots of revisions and plenty of discussion in the corr boards prior to this change being made public knowledge.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 02-03-2005 05:38 PM
KapowBzapp
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:37 am
#30
The Devs didn't just pull this out of the air. They've been getting community feedback on the TEF system for months, if not since release.
SWG isn't sold as a game in which, to attack a single stormtrooper, you have to spend weeks training to fend off TKMs and Jedi. The reality of PvP combat is that there's an enormous gulf between casual and hardcore players. Casual players forced into PvP simply don't stand a chance, so content that puts a TEF on them is essentially off limits. If shooting a stormtrooper is off limits without matching the efforts of your server's most dedicated players, SWG is a failed game.
From an RP perspective it doesn't make sense that you would stand by and watch your faction's troops get mowed down. But there's also no RP sense in our characters differing so strongly based on time devoted by invisible puppeteers in another reality.
SWG isn't sold as a game in which, to attack a single stormtrooper, you have to spend weeks training to fend off TKMs and Jedi. The reality of PvP combat is that there's an enormous gulf between casual and hardcore players. Casual players forced into PvP simply don't stand a chance, so content that puts a TEF on them is essentially off limits. If shooting a stormtrooper is off limits without matching the efforts of your server's most dedicated players, SWG is a failed game.
From an RP perspective it doesn't make sense that you would stand by and watch your faction's troops get mowed down. But there's also no RP sense in our characters differing so strongly based on time devoted by invisible puppeteers in another reality.
1StarNinja
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:38 am
#31
/Direct Question @ Dev's
The tef was originally put into the game for certain things because people would setup a private house or one with an insane entrance fee on it just outside of a faction enemies base or what back then was considered a city.
People would walk 5m out of the house start shooting and then run back inside to saftey in the house. With the current tef you are not allowed inside a house in order to prevent people sniping others like this all day long.
How is SOE going to prevent something like this from coming back again?
Attichetcuk
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:39 am
#32
Degage wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Actually, we spent a lot of time reading threads about TEFs on the various boards when deciding to do this. The removal of TEFs is something that many players have been talking about for quite some time.
The updates are posted now so players can see the designs and give us feedback. The TEF changes are still in development and won't appear on Test Center until after Publish 13.0.
And since you didn't find an equal number of TEF system prises you figure that the people complaining about it make up the majority.......
so......just in case.....I really do like to PvP, and though their are a ton of people that complain about it, I hope you don't remove it.
You can still PVP all you want. What the removal will do is keep people from being forced to PVP in situations that they dont want to.This change does not take away from any options, it gives more. How can that be a bad thing?
BaronJedi
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:40 am
#33
My problem is the faction armor....not the TEFs. How will this not be EQ in space? Imagine the Coronet Starport. Everyone in Faction Armor...except...no one fighting each other. What?! Kind of deathblows the Star Wars atmosphere for me.
DeQuosaek
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:40 am
#34
jphillips1868 wrote:
DeQuosaek wrote:
As you can see byyour message rating here and the flood of positive responses in the other threads, more people agree with removing TEF than not.
jphillips1868 wrote:
.... lots of stuff .....
Perhaps I am wrong about the mood of the community on this issue. Certainly many people have strong feelings on either side of the issue, but my point in this thread is that there should have been an in concept thread as soon as they decided they wanted to make this change.
Let suppose you and many others in gamereally like a particular aspect of the game and for a month or so the Devs have been working on replacing that game mechanic with something you don't like. Wouldn't you have prefered that announced they were working on the issue in advance so you could comment on the goals and concept, as opposed to the details?
I suppose, but if it would slow down the process, I wouldn't really welcome it.
Plus since they based in on the majority of posts asking to remove TEFs, I think they already had most of the necessaryfeedback.
nefarious2
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:41 am
#35
I thank you for taking out TEFs. I am not a hardcore PvPer, I only enjoy it when there are the big battles. It is because of the TEFs that I don't do many faction missions, or if I do I have to run a few missions and then find a random lair to kill until the TEF went away. and I also had to make sure I wasn't followed to my mission.
The TEF bypassed my choice to PvP, at that point I had no choice to PvP, and the other issue with the TEF is that the over saw you as a hostile, but I, as the one with the TEF, only saw a blue dot, I could not attack first, and this was another issue with the TEF system, if I had the option to attack first, then mayby I wouldn't have minded as much, since I might have been in the position to initiate combat, but more often than not, you get hit with a dizzy/KD and it is all over.
Sunakk
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:43 am
#36
drashen wrote:/waves good bye to TEF'snot all but i woudl say alot fo who are going to complain about the removal of TEF's are those who love to have gank squads or griefers. This woudl fix alot of problems 1 jedi just raping players because of a TEF. now jedi before you yell at me i have a jedi as well and on the bright side this should fix the gank squads against us jedi. no more having 5 bh just a young padawan just so they can get their kicks. Most of them hide behind the phrase but i am RP'ing my profession, but those same people are invest 3 and then all other professions. again bye bye TEF's i cant wait for this to hit live
Actually, to clarify, if a group of 2-5 BH's all take on the same Jedi's mission, they can all attack the Jedi at the same time. But that's the limit to the help a BH can receive. And one BH against a Jedi isn't exactly fair anyway.
This thread explains in detail the Jedi/BH relationship, thanks to Tanks.
RedDragon133
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:43 am
#37
Calandryll_SOE wrote:Nope, I don't figure that at all.
Degage wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:Actually, we spent a lot of time reading threads about TEFs on the various boards when deciding to do this. The removal of TEFs is something that many players have been talking about for quite some time.The updates are posted now so players can see the designs and give us feedback. The TEF changes are still in development and won't appear on Test Center until after Publish 13.0.And since you didn't find an equal number of TEF system prises you figure that the people complaining about it make up the majority.......
I am soooo happy you did not!
Dusk
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:47 am
#38
BaronJedi wrote:My problem is the faction armor....not the TEFs. How will this not be EQ in space? Imagine the Coronet Starport. Everyone in Faction Armor...except...no one fighting each other. What?! Kind of deathblows the Star Wars atmosphere for me.
You know what? I would rather see everyone in faction armor milling around than EVERYONE in composite ....
ArdenStarmariner
Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:49 am
#39
jphillips1868 wrote:I am very dissappointed that the community was not given advance notice that SOE was considering removing the TEF and thus an opportunity to give feedback on that possibility. Whenever the Dev team decided this was something it was interested in doing, there should have been a post to the effect that SOE is considering removing the TEF and seeking the community's input on that propsal. The TEF is a fundamental game mechanic. And while I understand, but don't necessarily agree with, the Dev reluctance to release details until they are all but set in stone, you could have at least give us notice of the high level concept. I consider this a tremendous step backward in the effort to improve player-dev communications. For a change this fundamental and controversial, feedback from the correspondents simply isn't enough. This is in stark contrast to the way you have handled the CURB. I hope this type of communication will not be the trend. Regardless of how you feel about removing the TEF, more discussion is needed for such a high level change. Calandryll, I would appreciate your commenting on this as it really casts a shadow on your effort to revamp player-dev communications.There seems to be a fundamental disconnect between the Devs and the players on this issue. One of the goals as stated by TH is to make it so that players just interested in killing Storm Troopers or Rebel Troopers can do so without being attack by other players if they want to. Many many players disagree with this goal. I am hesitant to say most players, just because I don't have the data, but I feel it would end up being that way. This is particulary true among players that are currently declared as a rebel or a imperial. (Personally, this dynamic is why I don't play JTL at all). This disconnect was illustrated by a very recent post by Garva closing a petition. I'm not complaining about closing the petiton, but his comment showed a lack of understanding as to how many many factioned players view the situation. For us, it destroys the star wars immersion to see a imperial player killing rebel NPCs and to not be able to do anything about it. Its a war.Had there been an in concept post and discussion a month ago this disconnect could have been identified and either the Devs could have convienced us or we could have convinced the Devs. At the very least we would have had some time to digest this change.Message Edited by jphillips1868 on 02-03-2005 09:59 AM
Sorry. But I completely disagree with you. I firmly believe that about 80% of the player population will be exceeding happy and excited about this change.