Commando Archive

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TechnoHic wrote:

Ahh but you see Tac, they did rework a lot of creatures resists, at least some of the pets I used to have but I gave up quite a while ago. I used to use GSPs and fight them from time to time and remembered them being very dificult to kil TKA at the level Im at.

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No daker, all creature resists were lowered. CH's tame pets from the wild, a CH GSP is the same as a wild GSP.

"Yeah, problem solved tac....there won't be any more dabblers because there won't be any more commandos."

Ah, you see, thats one of the problems. a dabbler is not a commando, its a dabbler. whereas a grenadeer dabbler is perceived as being A commando because he has the highest damage weapon, matching the damage a master commando does...nerf calls come up and we end up with your next comment proving it:

'With the upcoming changes, the dot is going to be worthless.'

changes..no, nerfs, brought upon by... *drumroll* the hordes of grenadeer dabblers! I assure you this massive whining that brought this nerf would not be possible if only the master commandos had the dot.

'If you move what little power that is left to the master level, what will everyone use to skill up on...their launcher pistol?''

fire dot gives no xp. a 9k initial damage xp at flamesingle2 , 5k initial damage at single1 is more than can possibly be needed to get full commando xp vs a target.

and like i said in one of my first posts about the flame dot moving to master, this was to PREVENT a nerf to the flamethrower that would SCREW the masters and novices alike. and it was posted a good amount of time before this extinguisher thing came up.

Now the devs have proved my point. They listened to the majority of the whining and instead of doing a balancing fix, they are doing a nerf. A nerf which SERIOUSLY hurts the masters and the novices, all thanks to the majority of the 'commando' population who are in reality, just grenadeer title holders. Dabblers.

Ok this thread probably should've died but I'll throw in my 2 cents

The Flame Thrower getting nerfed was not due to dabblers. It was people piss,bitching, and moaning about getting their butts handed to them so obviously it can't be them but theopponents abilitieshas to be overpowered.

I personally dislike PvP with an unholy passion and this is exactly the reason why. People will cry and moan all day long if they get beat because the majority can't live with the fact that maybe someone did a better job than them so they cry nerf.

It still would've happened if it had just been Master Commando's doing it vs Dabblers. People LOVE to piss about something.

What they need to do is make it so that at Master level you get something that will make people REALLY want to Master something and not just do it for the sake of "completing a task". For Instance, but in new Weapon Certs at Master level that are substaniallybetter than the one you get at Novice.

Taking the **edit** that's at the bottom and middleof the skill trees and moving it to the top is the weakest, most unconstructive way to "fix" things(which it doesn't) IMO.

ADD IN NEW STUFF AND MAKE THE STUFF THAT'S THERE USEFUL!!

You have to remember that they also designed this game so you could dabble and be a powerful character. You get one toon per server and you can become whatever you want. That means if you want to pick up the flame thrower and use it well without mastering you should be able to do that.

The stinking instruction booklet THAT COMES WITH THE GAME even has suggested hybrid combinations or what skills from another class might help out your toon if it's say an artisan.

What they need to NOT do is look at what's working and working well and go "oh this is working well and fairly powerful according to the people getting beat in PvP....lets move it to Master level. They need to add to peoples abilities instead of taking them away to give all the combat classes a viable chance in PvP.

But remember people will ALWAYS **edit** no matter what so if you think moving skills to Master level will downgrade the complaining and fix the problem you're kidding yourself.

PvP sucks arse IMO...why because someone has to lose and there are alot of sore losers out there that ruin the f'ing game for everyone else.

My god man! This still is going on? I dropped the subject long ago adn just noticed it float to the surface of the forum.

The reason I dropped it is because I dont understand why someone would want to dabble for the flame 4 line. Really, you could spend those points elsewhere and have just as much offensive capabilities, especially if you consider damage types, and defensive abilities if you spend your points elsewhwere.

For example, lets look at a typicla flame 4 dabler, a MCH. Can one of you tel me why you want the FT so bad? Am I missing something? Seeems to me like you could go master CH, master Rifleman, and fencer 4-0-0-0 with a lot more eas than flame 4 and room for one other branch. Then you get the damage at 64m, various damage types, armor piercing weapons, and some 120 defenses to melee/ranged compared to what? 10 at grenadeer?

The hard truth is I realized that at master commando, even with my dabling here and there, I could do a much more versatile, more effective combo through stacking various things through other professsions. I could use the same amount of points and have almost twice the defense, just as much firepower when you look at damage types and AP, and a multitude of ranges to use to make the fight mine.

So here we are now with this nerf that Tac and I foresaw uppon us. Thing is, now, I really see not even the grenadeers are too powerful for what they invest, in fact, are crazy for investing in it as am I for being a master commando.

Really nice of TH to finally do an in concept of how commandos should function but we are wrong to get all happy and get our hopes up. We just got a bone thrown our way to shut us up about this nerf, and with all the other professions hopping in there, It will more than likely never be as any of us commandos invision it.

I have to agree with clover that PvP brings the cries for nerf cause people loose like they are 5 but the thing is, even without PvP they would be like the jealous little brother yelling at their mommy cause you got a cookie and they didnt.

Maybe I'll take up dancing and cut this whole combat crap out as a lost cause.

Techno dances off mumbling, "Im a pretty princess, wont you watch me dance? Tips apreciated." /wink

erm, techno, people take the flamethrower because it is a guaranteed kill if they score a hit. you know as well as I that hitting someone not wearing composite = 1 shot kill, hitting someone with composite = 1 shot then the dot will kill.

also for hunting the flamer is far, far better than master ch+master rifleman combined. when has a master ch+master rifleman be able to solo one or 2 enraged rancor nests , both rightnext to each other? because you know that a composite or high kinetic ubese armor wearing grenadeer can do this.

on paper, yes, they can get a lot more proffessions and weapons than a grenadeer title, but in practice the grenadeer flamer, because OF the DOT, just outperforms every other proffession and weapons. Range is hardly an issue, a burst run will let you catch up and torch several people AND get away.

like i said before,thegrenadeer title is a cheapinvestment for the massivefirepowerreturn.

Sorry Tac...I should have reposted this from another post I made yesterday...in this proposal, Novice Commando would get a boost on initial Flame Accuracy of at least +20...sure it wouldn't be perfect...and it may take some longer to get up the trees...but instead of working on one tree at a time, work on the FT tree and the Field Tactics tree...get one, then the other...so as you progress, so does your skills...

And I don't think just putting FT accuracy in the Field Tactics tree is enough...put both Accuracy and Speed in the Field Tactics tree...That way to be good with the FT you need9 boxes...NOT 15...you need the initial Novice, plus the Field Tactics Tree and the Flame Tree...Screw the Acid Tree...that should be used for something else entirely (in the form of a different weapon or for the LP..and same policy applies for speed and accuracy on that too...in another tree...field tactics as well works for me).

You say it would not work well, but with the intial +20 or +30 Accuracy from Notice Commando they would have a good start, and since they are just Dabbling Commando, the FT would be a weapon they use for special occasions...they only need to worry about Accuracy if it was their primary weapon...So a FT dabbler will have a heavy hitting close range weapon with +20 speed, +20 accuracy to use when the need arises, and they will have the DoT specials...but if they face a Commando Master, we will have the advantage on them with better accuracy and better speed to the actual point it's noticable...

Look at TKA...When I progressed up that profession, I actually focused on 2 trees a the same time...1 for specials, the other for accuracy and speed...that way I had the best of both...instead of getting great specials and not being able to do much with them...

Tac, you have been working on Rifleman...did you progress up one tree at a time? If you did, which I think you did, what was your verdict that you told us all about only having one tree of Rifleman...you said it wasn't enough to be good with a Rifle if I remember correctly...you stated you needed more to be proficent with that weapon...why should it be different for the Flame Thrower?

Let's say we leave the Speed mod right where it is and only move the Accuracy mod...your right, accuracy is more a key then speed...if we both shoot at the same time, who has better luck of actually connecting...someone with +30 accuracy, or someone with +80 (or +110 at master)...face to face, using only the FT, who would have a better chance of winning...

So I totally disagree with you...moving the accuracy to another tree would lead to less dabblers, or at least, less reports of the FT being the cause of a lost fight...People will definitely viewspending and additional 14 points just to up their accuracy on the FT as a big deal, especially when it comes to a weapon that is not their primary...that 14 points has to come out of somewhere else...How many of the current Dabblers have 14 points just lying around that they could now invest into another tree of Commando? Or do they have that 14 points already invested elsewhere important to them...they'd have to make a tough choice on whether to give something up to have a better FT, or keep what they have and deal with reduced accuracy....

Let me put it this way Tac...

How much of Commando did you give up? How many skill points do you just have lying around unused currently...if I told you that you had to come up with 14 more skill points to maintain your FT accuracy, could you and would you? What would you give up to do this, and would the benefits out weigh what you are losing elsewhere?

That's why it's a big deal...

"How much of Commando did you give up?"

i had to drop it all, even pistols and carbines and ranged support to get enough skillpoints for my next holoprof (merchant).

i still retain master rifle and tka 4.0.0.4

i have 900k saved heavy weapons xp, the maxcap.

"if I told you that you had to come up with 14 more skill points to maintain your FT accuracy, could you and would you? What would you give up to do this, and would the benefits out weigh what you are losing elsewhere?"

but ill give you an idea with my earlier template of master tka, master commando and smuggler dirty fighting 3.

If I had dropped master commando to keep grenadeer only, and spent those 43 points in pistoleer (for the smuggler benefit) and got the accuracy box4and the speed tree box2 (master marksman mods bring it up close to a box 4 here), that would leave me 14 points, which i would use for the pistoleer damage specials+status defenses box. from memory that would be pistoleer 0.4.4.2

so id end up commando 0.0.4.0, smuggler 0.0.3.0, pistoleer 0.4.4.2, master teras kasi. (this template is actually scary because of the LP ).

You tell me i have to drop 14 points to get another tree of commando to keep the fire dot? easy as pie. Adios teras kasi balance tree. (smuggler can KD from range, and the flamer dot is much more important for survival vs a melee class or in pve than unarmed toughness/melee mitigation).

no matter what proffession you combine with grenadeer, even a master, theres one tree that can be sacrificed. Carbineer? drop all butbox2 of the combatxp tree(chargeshot1) and the accuracy tree. the rest are expendable if you have the flamer. Pistoleer? drop thepistol speed tree. (yes, shocking as it sounds, the LP at 1.8 seconds with master marksman mods fires close to the cap already).If any more is needed drop the dodge tree.

rifleman? drop the countersniping tree.. ifmore is needed drop the concealment tree.ranged defense is not a priority if you can keep your headshots per second while you charge attarget or target rushes youthen torch his butt off. burst run is your friend.

pikeman/fencer/swordman? drop the trees that dont give weapon accuracy or damage or defense. they all have one tree thats filled with nonsense vs blind or vs intimidate defenses. those can go easy. I prefer to have a good chance to torch someone than to defend myself against an improbable blind/stun/intimidate attack that does not hurt or stop me from torching them.

aye, what is said you needed minimum the sniper tree and the rifle special abilities tree to use the rifle efficiently.

Exactly...you need 2 trees...not all in one...

however,the flamer ismelee range, not 64m range. rifle special delay is much lower than flamer special delay.

It's not about the range or the delay...people don't dabble Commando Flame tree to get a ranged weapon, and they know about the delay...neither would change...instead...they'd have to dabble 2 trees to be as good as a Master Commando...

riflescan use powerups, flamer cant (a 6 sec rifle with 31% speed powerup= 4 seconds, marksman rifle speed mods shave off one more second off it. 3 seconds. flamer is 4.9 but specials jump to 10+secs).

Aren't we pushing to change this...don't we want to eventually have Powerups...so to me that isn't a valid issue to apply here...

BUT! a master rifleman will utterly own a sniper tree+speed tree dabbler. Why? The master shoots faster and has strafe2, which islike getting hit by an HPBC every second. the best attack the sniper/speed tree dabbler can use is master headshot, which does 1/3rdthe damage of strafe2 or flurry shot, which is random ham damage (like strafe) but it also does 1/3rd damage. rifle 2-tree dabbler fires the specials once every 1.5 seconds, master is 1 second. and when someone hits you 2/3rds harder and puts 3 shots where you put 2, you get a very significant difference.

But is also about skill points...if someone just went straight up to Master Rifleman, they'd use obviously less skill points then Master Commando...So someone is more likely to Master Commando rather then get 2 whole trees of Commando. It takes 140 pts for to get up to 2 trees of Commando. It takes 121 pts to get up to Master Rifleman alone. A player who is going up Rifleman is more likely to go all the way up to Master Rifleman to get those specials...a Dabbler in Commando is likely to dabble more trees just for Speed and accuracy knowing it will cost thme 20 more points then just having the FT weapon specials...it is a deterent.

in Mcommando and grenadeer, they both shoot at the same speed (first shot), accuracy is about the same (really, the difference in +30 accuracy is negligible unless you try to torch someone with 150+ ranged defense..and in those cases both the master and grenadeer still miss like a mofo), the damage is *exactly* the same.