Commando Archive
Thread: To all you wanna be commandos about the 2X damage
Nagy-Gorath wrote:
Caelrie,
I hate to say this, but yes a commando should be more powerful than a melee character.
With that one statement, you can see we're diametrically opposed and unlikely to come to any sort of agreement whatsoever. Sorry 
There is more to melee balance than points spent. There is also the sickenly short range. It's only 20% of your range.
That fact needs to be accounted for when talking about balance. Given two professions who have spent the same amount of points in combat, one on a gun and the other on melee, the melee should hit harder. No question.
That curved sword has a place on my hotbar right next to the hammer. Just because I got something early in my profession doesn't mean I should feel insulted using it. It's a tool like anything else. Lunge, that I got at Novice Brawler, still gets used. I'd be a completely gimp noob to not use it. Same for intimidation. Novice Brawler.
That's the problem, you have specials that you got in your elite class to your with your curved sword to actually make it good....telling us to use the LP and crap like that when we get nothing but some noob attack for it is a joke.
Wolve44 wrote:
TLaneAZ1234 pls open your manual to Commando and read carefully...support class
Thank you and have a nice day
Also, open your manual to commando and see the prerequisite is engineering....the manual is out dated and nothing that you get from it can be construded as fact anymore.
I've been watching the Commando boards since just before the VK cert nerf going to TKA. This is how long I've been planning on being a Cpmmando, though I've just madeit there (casual gaming).I've never seen anything about getting a dmg mulitplier in that time. As a rifleman too, this makes no sense to any profession. Riflemen get off maybe 4 shots while Mask Scented (now cant use once in cbt) and under Cover (cant use b/c it's bugged), 2 shots without, and then get rushed within the span of 1 shot, and melee's for x2.5 dmg. Makes life hell. Without greater range for riflemen, there is no sense in this so-called 'balancer'.
Now with Commando...we have a weapon that realistically has to be used within the confines of melee range in order to hit the broad side of the barn (particualrly at Novice). Then since we are at that range, we take an additional dmg modifier to the same pool (generally dmg is to health) that is being drained from specials (I use overcharge2)?!? And we are still lucky to hit once out of every 4-5 shots? Sorry, I don't call this balancing.
You want balance? Keep the dmg mulitplier and get rid of the grenade cert tree, replace it with a UA/intrusions tree, disperse the grenade certs across the 4 trees.
UA / intrusions tree gets some UA attack and defense mods, def mods v. state and posture (low level), and maybe cbt equalibrium, but no UA abilities. Should realistically move or just add the VK cert here too (TKA's are supposed to be UNarmed).
Intrusions idea is to just make a skill mod and associated ability for a percentage chance to 'slice' a privacy lock on a door to a structure to allow passage into the structure for the commando and all his group (mybe the group only at higher tiers, and simply remove the privacy lock at tier4?). This has the side benefit of getting rid of the privacy/TEF exploit. (not sure if removal of the revenge TEF has fixed this or not)
This also makes the UA4 prereq have some sense of meaning.
sry, forgot something...
This allows the Commando to switch to UA cbt if the opponent closes to melee fighting so as not to take the mulitplier dmg... or not. It is a determination of tactics.
If I was a BH the penalty up close would be a concern but you would still have an option to do far better damage at long range. When opponents do come close they at least train up in pistol and are far more accurate with their pistols than we are with the LP. In PvP the BH still have their primary weapon in the form of Eye Shot with the pistol.
What are our close range options? Tossing grenades? Using a pistol which has no AP, low damage and which we have only rudimentary skills with it? Surely nobody woke up one morning and thought that this is the solution that would fix the Commando to justify the pre-requisite skill cost.
I dont give a rat's ass about pvp, the game is nowhere remotely balanced for pvp, what this does is forces me to solo with a friggin launcher pistol after going through hell to getting to novice commando. They say they want to make CHs less OOB then they should make close combat classes more effective up close, not less effective.
Syelesh, I think you just nailed the problem with all of these discussions. I have been reading all of these posts since the patch. I was really confused why the other professions were all over the commando's not wanting this 2.5 mellee damage. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was that they were missing.
Anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, but, it appears to me that everybody seems to think that what we are requesting is that the Dev's remove the 2.5 mellee from the commando and place it on everybody else when in fact what we are saying, and have been saying since we discovered the bug, it to remove the that damge PERIOD! Those of us that have been commando's all along realized that the mellee bug was wrong and worked to get it removed. However, the commando is a close quarter combatent. The 2.5 melle damage applied to this profession negates our specials.
I have seen posts that state we are ranged and all the other specials from the Master Marksman and unarmed trees apply. Well, that is only partially true. I have tested the specials from the marksman tree. What we can use as stated is suppression, warning, and Overcharge2. However, the Marksman accuracy bonuses don't follow through to the Commando tree nor do the speed bonuses. So, when we use those specials (and I tested this as well) we hit with the above specials 50% of the time and we have 0 bonuses to accuracy while moving or while the target is moving. I tested that as well on several imperial missions and when the NPC started running I couldn't hit him at all with my specials.
The unarmed part of our profession is worthless especially with the 2.5 mellee penalty. We can hit unarmed with the unarmed specials for about 120 to 140 while being beaten to death by a creature hitting us for over 500 because of the mellee penalty. And I'm not talking about anything in the danerous category.
To make matters worse, when we do use our HW specials we are "LOCKED" into our 9-12sec. delay for "ALL" weapons and that includes Unarmed. So, you see, we get one shot and with the mellee penalty we are finished.Even if we do swich weapons to something non mellee or even unarmed, for that 9-12 sec. delay we are still under the 2.5 melle penalty. It doesn't take that longto be slain by a melleer so we are disadavantaged again.
Some have argued that we need to buff and where armor. Buffing is good, no argument on that point. I think anybody and everybody should use that tactic. However, Armor is bugged to the hilt with a hole I could drive my Kenworth through. Ok, remove shirt, remove backpack, and tell me how I can remove my eyes. As of right now no option.
Now, All of our other HW's, not grenades, have even longer time delays, and no accuracy/speed bonuses worth mentioning and recieve no specials to use with them nor should they.
What really needs to be cleared up here is that the commando's are NOT asking to remove the penalty from us and put on any other class in the game. We are fighting to have it removed period. It really doesn't balance anything, at least in my opinion, and is very unrealistic. For example, if I were a rifleman and my target had managed to get within mellee range why would anybody think I would take more damage hand to hand than anybody else? It's a good thing our soldiers today don't have to deal with that in the field of war or we wouldn't be the world power. However, if a TkA get's within my range I would expect to owned and rightfully so because I'm not Tka and their mellee skills are far better than mine.
To clarify, I am talking PvE here. I don't play PvP because it's not balanced and don't believe it can be due to the nature of the game.I believe each proffession has it's place within the community and should excell within that profession. For example: A pistoleer is an expert with all pistols and should excell with pistols even though in this game there are pistols he can't use which makes no sense while at the same time shouldn't be able to shoot at long range as they can now. A rifleman is an expert with rifles and should be sheer ownage at long distance. A TKA should own almost everything at mellee range and nobody should be able to stand up to them in hand to hand. But, in PvP everybody wants to be equal and that's just not possible given the boundaries of SWG.
I really don't see what all the complaining is about. It is good for us to be vulnerable. I am nowhere NEAR close to master since I am grinding flamer to 4 first for the accuracy modifiers. My trouble is having a blue con mob 2 shot me. By all means, leave the defense penalty, just make sure it is functioning properly and is not over-scaled or miscalculating. We know things like this happen, just look at the armor snafu from last patch. All we need is verification that the modifier is working AS INTENDED.
I have no complaints about having weakness. I am loving commando and look forward to that fateful day when I can master it. I am finding that I am one tough SOB. I die a lot but hey, it IS only a game. Nothing like testing your limits to see what you can and cannot do. (You solo st's? wow....they own me like a bank with a foreclosure) I can, however, with the right tactics, defeat several stormtroopers. It isn't about standing toe to toe, it is about fighting with some sense.
Glad to hear from you Ivoni. I'm also glad to hear your point about dying to blue con mobs. Means those people spewing "use tactics" are stating as much garbage as I thought they were.
You've always had a level head and I'm glad to hear you wade in on the topic.
If you master commando you still have plenty of points to dabble in other professions to pick up a lot of defenses.
I'm a Teras Kasi warrior with a TON of ranged and melee deffence mods.....they do nothing to help this 2.5x melee mod....nothing you can dabble in can help you from not dying with a 2.5x melee mod
It is always astounding to me how many people will settle for less or love to mock those who are suffering through a serious profession issue.
I am so tired of therationalization or acceptance after the fact of something that was done that ruined a profession. THe Devs created the Commando template. And in it theyinstilled certain very special characteristics that have beengutted with the melee penalty. So now I am a Commando with pets or running away, etc? I never used an animalpet before. Now I have to do that to avoid being hit by a venomous spider on Endor? How sad. We are supposed to be COMMANDOS.
I don't know why I still play sometimes quite frankly. We are supposed to be out of beta. Can't we play our professions like we're out of beta and be able to rely upon certain things as to how the professions work?