Commando Archive
Thread: To all you wanna be commandos about the 2X damage
A.) Commando should be stronger ("god-mode" as you put it) than classes like Pistoleer simply because there are more prereqs to obtain Commando.
B.) I have flame IV and no other Commando skills at the moment. Why? Because all the other skills are worthless and/or broken. You Master Commandos who put down "dabblers" because they train in the only viable Commando skill are just plain stupid.
C.) The reason that Commandos are complaining about the 2.5x melee penalty isthat the flamethrower is the only Commando weapon worth using at the moment. It's a weapon that you must be within melee range to use. Therefore, treating it as a rifle is simply retarded. If the devs want to encourage us to move back to rifle range, then they should fix the other *edit*-ing skills in the profession rather than nerf the only one that DOES work.
D.) Commando does, should, and always should own melee. See point A.
E.) Commando is no more a support profession than Bounty Hunter. BH's carry around a big-a** weapon too, the LLC. I don't see anybody screaming that BH should be support class.
The author of this post strikes me as a Master Commando who regularly gets owned by "dabblers" with flame IV and some other professions under their belts. My 2 cents...
Everyone in this post is talking about Pvp. Pvp this and pvp that. I try to pvp alot, but whe I loose by a one shot...big deal. As a master commando I do it to people once in a while.
THE REAL PROBLEM is commandos in pve. Grouped or not is dead. No one on this thread seems to want to talk about THAT. The balancing issues for that! I wouldnt mind the 2.5x multiplier for pvp. Gotta give the melee somthing since they HAVE to get that close just to start fighting. But my issue is the fact that a dewback is hitting me for 500dmg. Something is wrong with that. I'll concede right that I could simply switch to my launcher pistol and use that since it does not get the mdf. But what is the point when the launcher gets no mods or specials of its own anywhere in the commando tree. TheHAR could be the solution to this, a longer ranged weapon that wasnt nearly as strong as the flamethrower but did have MUCh better speed and accuracy and could let the commando polay the long range game. The current flamethrower and HAR are not meant for long range, the accuaracy mods when using one proves this. I should not get incapped by 5 kreedles. No reason at all.
if they fixed the launcher and HAR it could (in theory) work out. But as it is now, I HAVE to take pistoleer for ANY chance so suceed in pve.
But my point is this: ok, for the sake of my argument let anyone who responds to this post pretend that the 2.5x is ok for pvp...what about pve???? If you say "well commandos were meant to fight grouped" then take away the mod when in a group.
Seylesh wrote:
Yes. Yes it was. I figured I had to abase myself to your level to get you to understand. Apparently I was wrong. I assumed you had at least one or two synapses firing.
Just get it out of your system already. Insulting me won't make me go away. It won't change my mind either. You'll need to discuss to do that. Flaming is not discussing.
Being a heavy swordsman, and I'll admit as to not being familiar with the weapons of the class, do you use the two handed curved sword a lot? I doubt it. That is what you are telling us to do. I know you'll say you do to try and prove your point, yet I remember you saying your weapon (note singular) had AP2. So why should we be forced to use weapons that we gain at approximately the same skill level as your two handed curved sword.
Matter of fact, I DO use that sword still. It does kinetic damage, my hammer does blast. Sometimes you need kinetic. Plus, the curved sword with any special hits at the 1s cap. There are times when I NEED to get 3 different kinds of attacks out in 3 seconds, and I can't be waiting around for the 4 second hammer.
That curved sword has a place on my hotbar right next to the hammer. Just because I got something early in my profession doesn't mean I should feel insulted using it. It's a tool like anything else. Lunge, that I got at Novice Brawler, still gets used. I'd be a completely gimp noob to not use it. Same for intimidation. Novice Brawler.
I am NOT opposed to this nerf for the sake of the nerf. I AM opposed to this nerf because we no longer have a viable CLASS specific weapon. The HAR is broken, grenades are borked and frankly, I can't afford to shoot HW at ewoks and durnis.
If they fix the HAR and I can now attack things from afar? I am fine. Right now the misses on the move are ridiculous for a weapon that missed a lot to begin with.
If you work towards fixing the other weapons, guess what? I'll support you with my last dying breath! I've never been against anything commandos wanted until this last patch. Come up with alternatives. Beg the devs to add specials for the launcher pistol. Whatever! I'll support you completely.
You refuse to listen me. I keep telling you that when your weapon was changed to "ranged", you started hitting ME twice as hard as you used to. How happy about that should I be? That you can hit me harder than I can hit you, in MELEE RANGE? It's out of balance, since melee range is unconditionally supposed to MY forte.
So the 2x modifer was put in. Now I hit you harder too. It returns a semblance of balance to PvP. Yes, it has PvE issues. We haven't really heard from the devs on where they want you guys in PvE.
Take that modifier out and you hit me twice as hard as you used to, and I don't hit you any harder. Commando > Melee 100% of the time. That's not right, and I'd be out of my freaking mind to support it.
Now, can we stop wasting bandwidth on pointless insults and flames and discuss like adults?
CyberData4 wrote:
Caelrie, what about a commando versus a creature handler? His/her pet can now hit for 2.5x dmg while the creature handler uses a ranged weapon. Is that balance? not saying your point of view is wrong, but I'm curious as to where you stand on the issue.
I don't know. CHs are like a whole other novel-length post. No, I don't think those CH pets should hit you for 2x since they already don't suffer from the PvP reduction. But do I know how to fix it without crippling ME in PvP? No.
We know there are serious CH nerfs on the way. Just a few days ago, the devs were in the main forum asking for suggestions on how to make pets far less effective in PvE.
Also, what about bounty hunters and their LLC? Do they recieve a melee mod of 2.5x dmg for them? The dmg they do with that is very comparable to the dmg a flamthrower does. Minus the wounding.
My alt is a bounty hunter. And she takes the extra 2x while using the LLC just like you guys.
And pve? Should the penalty exist for pve?
I'm not looking for an argument, only a debate. Im hoping there is something Im missing.
I kinda think it should, yes. But at the same time I think your launcher pistol should gain its own specials so you do have some options.
Super high damage weaponry needs penalties attached to it. The longer this game goes on, the more the devs move us towards a mage-tank-healer model. It's my opinion that the devs have selected the commando as the 2nd mage profession (riflemen being first). Classically, mages can't tank.
I know the model works. And I know it'll be a painful transition. But the devs have stated that that model is where they're moving the game.
Seylesh wrote:
I know you'll say you do to try and prove your point, yet I remember you saying your weapon (note singular) had AP2.
Heh, I missed that little snip the first time.
Both the 2hcs and the power hammer are AP2.
Nice try tho.
Wolve44 wrote:sorry but that is not what the commando is about....you can not compare a commando with a pistolier..
a MASTER pistolier will own a MASTER commando any day of the week and that is how it should be..you want to solo go play pistolier then, cammando is the wrong profession for you....2X damage in melee is a fact of life for the commando and will stay. Do not like it..move on.
I don't agree with that, really. A master commando at 16m should and will own a Master Pistoleer anyday of the week. That honestly is how it should be, first of all, just from a time investment amount of skill points used and so forth. Now a Master Pistoleer is going to be able to take a larger varity of skills and give himself a possible advantage, but just pistols versus flamethrower at 16m, he should lose.
Honestly, fighting off a Raiding Imp group this evening I was only incapped and killed once by an overt Imp who was a bounty hunter spamming that Eyeshot (or whatever it is).
Also, I took CH 3400 and am rather happy, I can go out with any of my pets and kill storm troopers all day long, pubams (if I could get missions for them anymore) or just about any other normal creature. PCs are more fun to hunt than NPC's just because they're mostly smarter, but since I don't earn credits off them, I'll still be killing scores of ST's to pay the bills and get myself more faction points.
Caelrie,
I hate to say this, but yes a commando should be more powerful than a melee character. This might not be true if they both start out in melee, though the flamethrower one shoting people is a possibility. With the 2x melee damage modifier a melee can easily one shot a commando (unless he is uber buffed and/or has uber armor) and does not have a minimum of a 8 second "cool down" (and that is MINIMUMas a master commando with a fast flamethrower with 40% speed slice, typically its more around 12 seconds). A lot of people overlook the fact that not all combat classes should be equal. The commando and bounty hunter should be the most powerful combat classes (with the bounty hunter slightly better than the commando, unless hes stupid enough to get within 16 meters) and the other classes should be a fair amount weaker. In a duel between a master commando/bounty hunter vs a masterelite combat class (rifleman, carbineer, swordsman, ect) the commando/bounty hunter should win 9 out f 10 (both sides being master of their class with no other points spent besides to reach mastery).
You state that you regularly use intimedate and unarmed lunge in combat and the curved sword. Question: Do you HAVE to use those to win all of your combats? Probably not. With the current 2x melee damage on Commandos we will now HAVE to switch to marksman weapons or go unarmed in our combats. If not we will get ripped to shreds (and die constantly). I cansee where a lot of people have the view point of "good, now the commando is screwed like we are". That mentality is stupid and counter productive, it will eventually lead us to the point where no class will be able to kill anything tougher than a durni. I agree with riflemen on the 2x melee damage towards them, I dont think its nescesary either (they really dont getthat greatof arange benefit over the other classes). I can agree with melees on the inability of easily engage their opponent (especially other PCs) in Hand to Hand and the fact that they take a lot more damage in a combat than other classes (hey they have to start and finish their combats in Hand to Hand). The current 2x melee damage for heavy weapons is counter intuitive...the commando is designed to be up close to their opponent, it should be somewhere where they are fairly safe. Its almost like giving the Teras Kasi artist a 2x melee damage penalty (or worse yet a 2x range damage penalty)...
My alt is a bounty hunter. And she takes the extra 2x while using the LLC just like you guys.
Ahhhh Caelrie BH's do not suffer from any extra 2x as do commandos. You need to go play and see and make sure to play a coomando and a bh with and flame or acid rfiel and then a LLC equiped. Ive bounced from Master Commando to Master BH back to Master Commando and working up the BH tree againa fter this last patch and you are completely wrong.
Didnt notice this before:
Caelrie:
Super high damage weaponry needs penalties attached to it. The longer this game goes on, the more the devs move us towards a mage-tank-healer model.
One problem with that quote...the flamethrower is not any more powerful than a good rifle, carbine or pistol in the hands of someone who can use it. If you compare a master commando vs a master rifleman/pistoleer/carbineer, both with the best version of their weapon the rifleman/pistoleer/carbineer will actually out damage the commando. The rifleman/pistoleer/carbineer have a much higher weapon speed skill (and accuracy) that allows them to fire their weapon much faster than the commando and have many specials that allow them to do massive amounts of damage (many that allow them to target specific spots). This isnot theory, it is not what i think, this is what I have seen. I went hunting with my brother, I was a commando with flame 4, he was a carbineer with carbine accuracy 1 (and one other skill, I think it was counter insurgency 1). We were attacking a structure, I was using flamesingle 2, he was doing fullautosingle 1 (maybe 2). He did almost twice as much damage as I did to it. Note: He had barely begun his carbineer tree, had a weaker gun (it had a poor slice while mine had a GREAT slice) and i was at about as best as I could get with my weapon (I keep hearing our specials get faster when we reach master, I dont know about that yet). The reason why people think we have such powerful weapons is because they do so much in one shot, but they take 3 to 8 times longer to attack again (at least).