Commando Archive
Thread: Here ya go Hard Evidence that we are not PvP gods
I gotta agree with the Commandos on this one. I'd also like to add that BHs are not good at PvP. I repeat: BHs are not good at PvP. Master Pistoleers with BH Pistol 4 wearing Expert Bounty Hunter are quite good, though!
Our only real skills are Fire Knockdown, which IF it sticks should win us the fight... if it doesn't we just did enough HAM damage to ourselves to get 1-shotted. And LS2, which has the same issues as the commando skills (short range, misses a lot).
Essentially, Commando and BH are __NOT__ good PvP templates because their damage is inconsistant. Every time I PvP, I feel like we should have flipped a coin and had the looser commit suicide.
hmm. the test with the Master Rifleman is a horrible demonstration of what a rifleman would actually do in PvP.
no rifleman would use a DLT20a against a composite wearing opponent. most rifleman do not use flushing2 or flurry2 in PvP - you could have shot Strafe2 in place of those 2 shots and your opponent would be incapped already - nevermind that flurry2 + suppression RARELY causes knockdown. it's a very big gamble and not worth your time.
what you SHOULD have done, is had the Master rifle arm his dmg sliced and poweredup Jawa rifle (stun dmg) and then gone to town with strafe2 (or headshots if you have a weak mind) at anything over 20 meters. that would be a much more accurate test.
i agree with you btw, commando's are not pvp gods - not that you aren't powerful pvp. but you're not gods.
(imo)
Master Dragger, Drunken FriarIn each case he used bh only or pistol only specials.
The damage is the same.
Yes, the speed would be somewhat slower, but by no means much slower.
Main problem is this game is the combat system is messed up. Primarily speed is broken, and there for there is no easy system to determine your true DPS in the game. There are other issues like how Bleeds and other DOTs work. Combine all these things it is hard to determine or justify Pros and Cons to say some profession or weapon is balanced.
For example of a combat system which allows for a better comparison of professions/classes and weapons to determine balance, lets look at Dark Age of Camelot's system.
All weapons are rated by DPS, Speed, Quality. In this system, a weapon's damage rating can be determined by DPS x Spd = Dmg per hit. This system also ensures that weapons themselves are balanced because they scaled equally. You can compare two professions by using the same DPS/Spd weapons, even just DPS really. If one professions kills the other "counter-part" there is imbalance in the profession.
Taking this back to SWG and why Devs can't balance anything yet.
Gun A: 100-200 dmg, Spd 2.0, HAM 20/20/20
Gun B: 200-400 dmg, Spd 4.0 HAM 40/40/40
Lets pretend these are both the same type of weapon to eliminate Professions and the same person uses them. Gun A & B are equals, one is just a "frontloader" and the other is focused on speed but on paper you would think over time they would do nearly the same dmg.
At novice novice they are pretty much equal. However at Master Elite in SWG Gun B is far better than Gun A because they can be fired at the same speed, therefore the speed rating doesn't count for anything. I am not saying that this is the case for the FT/Commando compared to a FWG/Pistoleer, this is just an example of one of the problems in the game which make it impossible to balance right now.
This game has an additional feature that makes the game hard to balance, HAM cost for specials in combinationwith the speed issue above. Although on paper yet again they are equals, at Master Elite, they are comparable in terms of Dmg/HAM, HAM/overtime looks ugly when using Gun B since you can "Kill yourself" super fast now in the current game system. You'd do good dmg per shot and better dmg over time, but would seriously injure yourself. This would be brought back into balance when/if speed is fixed as well.
Once the speed system is fixed (assuming they actually fixed it rather than changed it to another bad system), SWG will be able to balance weapons or "imbalance" them as needed to create a functional system were someone could actually say "I got owned, but that profession/weapon isn't overpowered".
In the current state I will agree the FT/Commando isn't the end all of be all, however it will often seem like it.
Anyways... something to chew on.
Ivoni wrote:
First up. Me getting shot by a Master Smuggler
[Spatial] 13:58:41 Heami Tinox says, "Last Ditch with 81-166 1.6 pistol"
[Combat] 13:58:58 Heami Tinox uses Last Ditch Attack on you for 356 points of damage!
[Combat] 13:59:03 Heami Tinox's Last Ditch Attack misses you.
[Combat] 13:59:07 Heami Tinox uses Last Ditch Attack on you for 347 points of damage!
[Combat] 13:59:07 You're stunned!
[Combat] 13:59:12 Heami Tinox uses Last Ditch Attack on you for 266 points of damage!
[Combat] 13:59:12 You're stunned!
[Combat] 13:59:16 Heami Tinox uses Last Ditch Attack on you for 213 points of damage!
[Combat] 13:59:20 Heami Tinox uses Last Ditch Attack on you for 359 points of damage!
[Combat] 13:59:21 You're stunned!
[Combat] 13:59:25 Heami Tinox uses Last Ditch Attack on you for 353 points of damage!
[Combat] 13:59:25 You're stunned!
[Combat] 13:59:29 Heami Tinox uses Last Ditch Attack on you for 357 points of damage!
[Combat] 13:59:29 You have been incapacitated by Heami Tinox.
So. A master smuggler did 2251 dmg in 31 seconds with one miss. Shooting every 4 seconds using last ditch.
.............................................
Master Pistoleer
[Combat] 15:10:40 Irzuro Skolopi accepts your challenge.
[Combat] 15:10:43 Irzuro Skolopi uses Stopping Shot on you for 579 points of damage!
[Combat] 15:10:44 Irzuro Skolopi uses Stopping Shot on you for 519 points of damage!
[Combat] 15:10:45 Irzuro Skolopi uses Stopping Shot on you for 445 points of damage!
[Combat] 15:10:45 You have been incapacitated by Irzuro Skolopi.
So, a Master Pistoleer did 1543 in, ahem, three seconds with zero misses. 1 second between specials.
Regardless of whether the Master Pistoleer also has BH pistol speed modifiers, I have to say that something is not right here. The damage modifier for Stopping Shot is 4.7x, while the damage modifier for Last Ditch is 6x. Last Ditch is clearly a stronger attack than Stopping Shot. That's a fact, plain and simple.
What that means is, on average, every hit with Last Ditch should be doing more damage than ahit with Stopping Shot, given similar weapons with similar stats. For example,if a Smuggler uses Last Ditch and hits for 300 damage, then a Master Pistoleer using Stopping Shot, *equipped with the same weapon as the Smuggler*,should hit for around 235 damage. That certainly does not appear to be the case in your test for some reason.
Your smuggler is using, at best, a mediocre pistol. You don't say what type of weapon your Master Pistoleer/BH is using though, so I have to assume he's using a Scatter pistol (AR 1 weapon), which is a better weapon than a pistoleer with only Pistoleer skills has access to.
So your comparison vs Master Pistoleer test is invalid for speed because he's got BH pistol speed modifiers, and also invalid on damage because he's using a Scatter pistol or some other powerful (possibly enhanced) pistol that's causing the damage modifier on Stopping Shot to appear to be somehow more powerful than the damage modifier for Last Ditch (long sentence, sorry).
Do a test with someone who is just a Master Pistoleer and make the pistol similar to the one the Smuggler used and I'll bet you'll see a big difference in speed somewhat, but mostly in damage.
A pure Pistoleer is not as powerful as you may think it is, due to so many people combining it with BH skills/weapons or Smuggler skills. Its certainly not as powerful as your test seems to indicate. Believe me, I wish I did that kind of damage in PvP as a Master Pistoleer.
How about somethinga bit more high-tech like a fire extinguisher.
StrychnineRictus wrote:
"UnnamedMasterDoc uses "Bucket 'O' Water on you"
"you aren't burning so much anymore"
"UnnamedMasterDoc uses "Bucket 'O' Water on you"
"you aren't burning so much anymore"
"UnnamedMasterDoc uses "Bucket 'O' Water on you"
"you stop burning"
DarthLithic wrote:
sorry to rain on your parade, but as a pikesman, I miss over 50% of the time. my weapon is for 3-5m combat. I get a (-50) to hit when they're within that range. and with the rangebeing 1-2m off most of the time, I never see a range mod that is not (-50). the only thing that saves me at all is the fact that my vibro axe is sliced to 4.2 speed.
Isn't Pikeman like the heavy weapons expert of melee? Whereas commando is the heavy weapons expert of ranged. Makes sence that we both have close to the same problems.
maddogs wrote:
altairrr ither your a lier or your frend is the suckest pvper ever and must have crapy wepons becous i know for a fact a master pistoler can esly 2 shot kill with armor on thats 65-80% resist and a bh can use fire kd evry one sec that dose 500 dam evry time with a haf decint wep i know this stuff for a fact i have one in my pa and he esly hits for that in pvp and usly more
Warcry and good stims does wonders. I can also flamesingle2 for over 9000. And no, a MP cannot kill me with two shots with my armor on, that's just silly.