Commando Archive

Doremor said: "Okay, fine, if you're a commando and you're attacking a 60% armored target with doctor buffs, you'll have to take 4 shots to kill him. That's the absolute worst-case combat scenario in the game for a Commando. 4 shots. Gimme a break."

Ok, so now take into consideration the mandatory 10 second timer between special moves. So now those 'only four shots' take 40 seconds. Against a BH that means they have 40 retaliation shots before they go down.

Furthermore you havent taken the accuracyinto consieration. A Master Commando (Like me) Will likely miss two of those four shots taking it to a sixty second kill with sixty retals.

So, um, who's not being realistic here?

"Commandos?! How can we stop them from kicking our butts?"

"Shooting an unarmored player for 1200 damage is too much in any profession, armor or not. I'm fascinated that you think there's a valid argument here. Let's just nevermind the extreme wound damage."

Again I pointout you must never PVP. Only 30% of the damage in PVP is actually done to the target. So these 1200 hp shots you keep talking about would be 400 hp shots that are assigned randomly to either H, A, or M. Furthermore since Comando weapons cant use power ups and the best sliced thrower I've seen does 960 high end we're actuallyy looking at 320 a hit. To a random HAM bar. Usually over the course of 3-4 seconds.

Adding in the 'special' move will usually double the damage. On very rare unknown occasions triple it. So now we're looking at around 640 damage to one HAM bar. Stil stim pack B-able. mandatory ten second timer onthe spec move means they stim and shoot back a few times. USually ending up in us being dizzy-dropped and blinded. Then Incapped then killed. Our target gets a lot of wounds for surviving and being on fire... but they didnt die., They didn't lose faction. They didnt have to go back to the cloning facility then back to a recruiter etc etc etc.

I can only assume you can not or are choosing not to listen at all and forma coherent view of what actually occurs.

The only posibility of a 1 shot kill is a rocket launcher that's optimum range is 0 that we can shoot at our feet (Nevermind the fact meleers do 2.5 TIMES more damage to us) The rocket launcher does 1000-3000 damage, Which means 333-1000 damage in PVP. It is only firable every 5-8 seconds and requires a two second 'set up graphic'. At Master Commando it has an accuracy of like 50% and costs upward of 50k creds, usually at a cost of 2k creds to 3k creds for a single shot. Which is 4k to 6k creds for an actual hit.

Any other class with a weapon like this would be frothing at the mouth and threatening bodily harm. We have several weapons like this.

Sephlock:

The answer to your question: Keep moving

Droremar:

Okay, using a damage sliced Flamethrower and factoring in DoT i get a DPS of roughly 300 in PvE. That equals 75 DPS in PvP.

If i use a Carbine and i am Master Carbineer/BH with carbine line, then i shoot you for 1.000 to 4000 DPS using a laser carbine. This accounts for about 2.500 DPS in PvE or 625 DPS in PvE.

So let's do the quick math:

Our target dummy Jhon Doe (short: Jhon) has 800 HAM. He is presented in4 scenarios:

1. Unbuffed, unarmored


2. buffed unarmored (buffed to 2K HAM)


3. buffed armored (buffed to 2K HAM, 50% effectiveness armor)


4. unbuffed armored (50% effectiveness armor)

The standard PvP situation is 3. But for your sake, we will acount for your points as well. If you should get jumped due to a TEF, you would normally fall under category 4.

We have3 volunteers for this test:

1. Master Commando


2. Master carbineer/BH


3. Grenadeer

The DPS given above are standrad DPS, factoring in Accuracy against Moving targets and several ranges. It is the actual average DPS.

Scenario 1:

Volunteer 1:

Time till target is taken out: 1sec

Volunteer 2:

Time till target is taken out: 2 secs

Volunteer:

Time till target is taken out: 1 sec

Scenario 2:

Volunteer 1:

Time till target is taken out: 11 secs (first hit 1.200, DoT 500 after 10 secs, second hit 1.200 after 11 seconds)

Volunteer 2:

Time till target is taken out: 4 seconds

Volunteer 3:

Time till target is taken out: 11 secs (details see above)

Scenario 3:

Volunteer 1:

Time till target is taken out: 21 secs (initial hit (FS2) 1.200 reduced by armor to 300. DoT 500 after 10 secs. second hit (FC2) for 1200 rduced by armor to 300 after 11 secs. after 20 secs DoT500, after 21 seconds DoT 500 after 21 seconds third hit of 1.200 reduced by armor to 300)

Volunteer 2:

Time till target is taken out:9 seconds

Volunteer 3:

time till target is taken out: 33 seconds (due to the lack of FC2)

Scenario 4:

Volunteer 1:

time till target is taken out: 10 secs (300 initail, 500 DoT)

Volunteer 2:

time till target taken out: 4 secs

Volunteer 3:

time till target taken out: 10 seconds (see above)

Conclusion:

In all scenarios, except Scenario 1 (the most unlikely PvP scenario) the commando loses to the carbineer. The carbineer can take out at least 2 opponents in the time the commando needs to take out one. Real numbers would swing even more into favour of the carbineer BH. This is only one excemple (a rather drastic one) but my tests have shown, that every elite combat profession at master level outdamages the Commando. How can you dare to proclaim commandos were overpowered.

If you are stupid enough not to wear armor in PvP you deserve to die. And you will. If not by a flamer, then by any other weapon. What is the real difference between dead on the first hit or dead after 2 seconds?

Dogg

Draremar:

How would you like the following solution:

Flamethrower brought down from (400-800 dmg) to (100-200dmg)?

We then simply down the speed to 1.2 and all is fine, eh?

well, it wouldnt change much about the DPS, except reducing them extremely ,so okay, we need to do something to compensate the loss of DPS: we up thje damage to 150-300 and the speed to 1.1

Perfect.

You are rid of one-shots and we are rid of that delay we all have. As the DoT is reduced the wounds are reduced and all are happy....

Dogg

Ivoni wrote:

So, a Master Commando with the flamethrower special can do 1284 in one second. 8 seconds between specials

OK?!?! I though you were trying to prove how you WERE'NT PvP Gods....Who else can do that!?

NOBODY!

One shot wonders........

Dah! No, no one else can do that Xeonus, you're right! No one else can do 1284 in one second and then cycle for 8 seconds until we can do something (anything other than posture change and move) again!

However, a Rifleman, Carbinier, Pistoleer, BH, or TKA worth their salt can do 1200 damage in 2 seconds! And do it again in the next 2 seconds! and again in the next two seconds! and again in the next two seconds!

So, 1284 + 1 tick at500 burn, vs. 1200 * 4=4800

Ok, so my math may be a bit fuzzy, but you understand my point. Commando is ridiculously outdamaged over a time period longer than 1 second. ANd while EVERYONE else can target at least A HAM, we cannot.

And, you, sir, are a TKM, and so if you put yourself in a fight versus a Master commando (who has spent 77 more skill points to master), that master commando will fire a flame single 2 at you. If it hits, and you dont survive, shame on you, wear armor, boost yourself, whatever. Really whether or not it hits, you should survive, and then in two hits (I saw a TKM do 559 damage to an armored carbinier, now factor in yourextra melee bonus v. commando)you will have incapacitated the recycling commando. DB at your leisure.

Now, I'm not really complaining that commando needs to have its DPS adjusted upwards, since I think that will balance out once the HAR and LP are fixed, but I get so tired of people who can basically insta-slay us saying we are overpowered. If you dont wear armor and don't get buffed going into PvP, don't go into PvP.

Now for my disclaimer: I understand that the damage output of riflemen and carbiniers may have been overrepresented in my post... however, over time, they will still outdamage a commando by a significant amount. Also, whether 1200 in 2 seconds is accurate v. 1000 or even 800, my point still stands. And I think 400 DPS for a MBH, MP, even in PVP is ludicrously low.

Athein

Xenous:

So, you say the commando (or in that particular case the flamer) is overpowered because we can one-shot stupid people? Because we can one-shot no-brainers?

well, as a TKA i can onehit kill those same persons. As a rifleman i can kill those same people. Are Swordsman and TKA overpowered?

Well, i f you nerf all them, it will be the riflemen, pisroleer, BH and Carbinier that will be overpowered (they can shoot from range and kill meleeers without them having a chance), then you have them nerfed. Then the meleers are too powerfull.... get the picture?

It is mostly dumb and stupid people that get one-shotted in PvP. There were excemptions to this prior to the melee fix of the Flamer, but without bugs, you have to be really stupid (or a wookiee, again those are exceptions in some cases) to get one-shottted by a flamer.

Dogg

MajorPayne:

Chill dude, That was done in jest just to make point......read the thread just above yours and you will see that the only prof i would want nerfed are the pistoleers.

Until a few days ago I was a Grenadeer/Pistoleer (and Bio-Engineer, for which I needed more points and dropped Commando). One on One against a variety of opponents I won nearly all the time. Unless it was another Grenadeer. The times I lost were do to a first shot Miss. And not every first shot Miss duel was a loss.

The numbers given are good for the most part. AndI don't necessarily think Commandos are infinitely better than other people at PvP since I've beaten some with just Pistol before, but they are very good - and should be! I don't think Commando warrants any nerfs, but neither do I think it's some terrible profession that deserves the whining and complaining I see here a fair amount.

The twoproblems with the original numbes is that DoT make a big difference on the Flamethrower and the amount of damage in a single shot can make a tremendous difference. I have one-shot incapped people with FlameSingle2. Sure, a Pistoleer can do that amount of damage in three, but if my first shot takes him out, he's not going to get 2 more. If my first shot misses, then he's going to destroy me. And if my first shot does not incapacitate them, I can start to run backwards zigzagging a bit and the DoT will take them out. Either before I go down, or after but before they can reach me to DB. And if I went down first, I'm probably getting back up first to finish them off.

Having gone back to straight Pistoleer, I find it quite amusing that a Commandowould call fora Pistol nerf. Pistol has a number of broken and/or useless attacks right now in addition to it's handful of oft-used ones. Like every profession, it needs what it has to be fixed instead of focusing on "nerf nerf!" all the time. The more time spent on Nerfing everything in sight, the less time I see for getting something actually accomplished with all the broken stuff in this Beta game.

One thing I will say about Pistoleer is that Stopping Shot seems to have improved considerably since the last update. A Master Pistoleer with a good pistol can now use Stopping much faster than in the past. With Fan Shot going to Area of Effect (which is not always a good thing lest you aggro neutrals), Stopping has become a rather good one-target attack.

Still, I can't do nearly half the missions I could do when I was Grenadeer and I don't duel quite as well... though the improved accuracy and speed does mean that I don't bet everything on my first shot anymore.

So really for me it's a matter of preference: one devastating shot but with questionable accuracy, or speed (to heal faster too after taking a shot) and accuracy but possibly not living long enough to use it.

glorfindel23:

Try to beat a Master Pistoleer (or Carbinier, or Rifleman, or BH) in PvP on a starting distance of 45+m as long as he is wearing any sort of Heat resistand armor. The try the same thing with him beeing buffed.

I bet you 200.000 credits, ythat you will lose as long as he has even the slightest idea of PvP.

Dogg