Commando Archive

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DiLune wrote:

Passive group bonuses are bad for things like accuracy and speed especially. Then you don't really need the SL for anything more than to stand there AFK. And I can almost guarantee the devs will say no to a concept that could put a very powerful heavy weapon in the hands of 19 commandos grouped with 1 SL to give them uber bonuses. The maximum effect of something like that is unbelievable. +30 defense is pretty good now that defenses work. When you make the ability an active ability it can be very powerful though because the SL has to actually spend HAM to use it and can presumably affect only one person at a time. That's why I've been proposing the actual weapon have a second "crew" slot to it where the SL can sort of plug himself in and then he and that Commando go crazy. There are examples in game (such as base shutdown) where you need one profession to do something and then a second profession does the next step. This would be a two step weapon that could be used by both in the first step but requires the second step to unlock the awesome power. (and the commando in the first slot to be really awesome.)

The deal with dabblers is that one person gets all the bonuses and can use them all to great effect by himself. If the weapon itself doesn't allow dabbling then it doesn't matter if you have the SL line and the Commando line. You can only affect one part of the weapon at a time. There would be no sense dabbling unless you intend to fill both roles from time to time.

Message Edited by DiLune on 04-23-2004 01:38 PM

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How about having a player tagetedactive ability, similar torally, in the mobility tree, then have +10 in each level 4 box for speed and accuarcy, and another +40 in the master box. I would personally prefer it to be a group ability, but I can see how this would be overpowered, and therefore concede that it needs to be a targeted ability. This way it is an active ability and encourages people to get master squad leader rather than just the mobility tree. As for crewing, I think it would be easier (and faster)to role play or implement an animation that lasts a whilewhen the ability is activated rather than introduce a whole bunch of new code which could be bugged and would take more development time that could be better spent.

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FalconsFortune wrote:

this a terrible idea. the commando needs a toltal revamp to stand up to any of the other profs.

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It is post like this that make me regret to ever have agree to the idea

We (the SLs) should revoke our agreement and just scratch it, or demand it for SLs alone. Either way i dont care.

Why should we sacrifice part of our revamp for people like the poster above?

I truly see no reason.

My new proposal: let the commandos rot in their depravity and self pity and let us all focus on the SL-only revamp...

Dogg

one-starred for giving you guys a heads up. This wont make this a hard decision for me

My support is off!

Dogg

*sigh* I just find all this squabbling ironic, and slightly amusing...

The E-webb is a heavy repeater blaster, and its for tactical support...hence an SL would use commands to enhance its support for the group while a commando provides the firepower (does not mean sharing of skill mods..or giving SL's cert, means giving SL's abilities and skills to make a tactical gun emplacement much more productive for the overal welfare of the group)

Simple concept...yeah there are people on both sides who want it to be SL only, Commando only etc....but what I find amusing is that the majority of the "big" discussion posters here who are SL are so wrapped up in their revamp that they want it only their way, or they would threaten to take support away.

The devs prolly dont even give a damn for that, and to me thats a selfish way to conduct a constructive discussion. It is inevtible that the devs will give commando a long needed revamp...just like SL's....but when that time comes..what if they throw out an idea giving commandos an E-webb? We'll all remember this discussion if that time ever comes (which I really doubt knowing them...but hey who knows)

Also dont forget...the CB (the biggest change and as close as you can call a near revamp to the commando proffession) was delayed....it was suppoused to go out well before the SL revamp...so don't act like "its your time to shine, and we just have to wait"...our "time to shine" was delayed...and yours just got bumped up

Point being, the devs are afraid to touch commandos before the CB...hence why we have rarely gotten anything from em (for the SLs...dunno maybe they just ignored you )....so if a revamp for SL came before...why the hell would they even listen to you guys (and us) for getting an E-webb into the game?

The most logical time frame we're ever going to see the e-webb is after the CB during our hopeful revamp...and this is my personal opinion based on what the devs have said that they're not touching us until after the CB

And lastly, until that time comes...all they're prolly going to put into the SL tree is what i talked about prior...skills and commands (that give big bonuses) and/or a restriction on the use (like only can be used if an SL "sets up a defensive perimeter" commando that grants commandos the right to place the gun - good idea btw)....this does not require a SL revamp to do...but a commando revamp.....they would only have to add new skills to your existing trees...while with us, they would have to make NEW trees as an E-webb does not really fit in the descriptions of our trees (maaaybe Field Tactics...and Hvy weapons but thats stretching it)

So i say, go ahead..withdraw your support...be wrapped up in your SL Revamp...the dev's final word stays (on the matter that we wont be touched before the CB)...i wouldnt count on them making an E-webb only SL either....but on that, who knows..."ranged blast dmg" was our niche (as with hvy weapons like the e-webb would be) and now thats a novice smuggler/BH niche as well...but it all boils down that they arent gonna be adding stuff/changing stuff for commando until after the CB...well after your revamp as it was delayed (if CB wasnt delayed...yeah maybe this couldve worked...but life isnt perfect)

I fail to see why 1, 2, or even 3 people who are Master Commando's offering a negative opinion should be reason for the Squad Leader Correspondant to withdrawl his idea which would benefit both professions. Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean it would be a reason to scrap the whole thing. People disagree all the time.

As a Squad Leader, I would think you would know what these guys are feeling. They feel betrayed, and hurt, having one of the so-called 'best professions' in the game with 3 competly and utterly worthless trees.

This is a wonderful idea Garvin, and I think it would great as far as necessitating combat class interdependency, great thought

Some of you may have noticed that I have not posted here in a while. The reason? You guys arent even trying; Squad Leaders and Commandos alike. I have tried my hardest to open a channel and try to meet on some middle ground. I wont post again until I actually hear some sort of attempt from at least one of the sides. You guys really dont understand that this is a touchy subject. Commandos need to see that this is a squad manned weapon that needs multiple people to operate it. Squad leaders need to see that this is the heaviest weapon in the gameand no one in the game has more of a right to it than a commando. The two proffessions need each other and neither can put it through on their own. You can either start budging some on both sides or drop it. I have put more workand thoughton the commando side trying to get this thing working to come degree with diminishing returns. Either find a way to work it out or not. If we have to wait for the commando revamp that is coming shortly, then so be it.If you want to work it out now, then thats fine too. But both sides cant just say, my way or the highway.

• Both professions get special abilities, speed, and accuracy mods (withSL's getting a little bit more speed than accuracy, andcommandos trading off a bit of speed for accuracy.)


• Commando Specials would focus on single-target damage output, bringing massive firepower upon whomever was unfortunate enough to make themselves a target


• SL Specials would focus upon AE supression and controlling enemy positionson the battlefield (as that seems more like the tactical sort of thing a SL would focus on.)


• There could be two seperate ways of having a joint-weapon operation

1. Commando is the Gunner, SL is the spotter. This combo of the two would have the commando gaining bonusses to speed and accuracy, and additionally would 'unlock' some more damaging AE specials.


2. SL is the Gunner and Commando is the spotter. For this combo it would play off the SL's sepcialization and supression and control. They would gain accuracy and speed bonusses (equal to what commando has with SL bonusses) and would unlock a new set of AE supression specials that are more lethal/effective. For instance, alone the SL might be relegated to specials such as light damaging AE stun/dizzy moves. However, with the commando acting as a spotter, they could gain an AE KD move with moderate damage.

The way I see it, setting up a system like that would be fairly logical, catering to both profession's specialties. In addition, it creates variety even in the way team's employ theE-Web (a concept that hadn' been fleshed out very well thus far for some reason.)

This way, the weapon is very useful to either profession as a stand-alone, with specials corresponding to the respective professions. When acting as a team though, the weapon would become extremely potent (at the very least a teamed weaponshould have the firepower potential of two hyrbid combat professions.)

Yes, you're getting it. Now the kicker is you have to have some way of preventing a SL/Commando from having both worlds available...so when you access the weapon you get a radial menu. You choose which spot you go into, SL or Commando. Then when a commando or sl in your group wants to join (after you already have a gunner) they get the option to join as either commando or sl in thespotter/powercontrolposition. Its a new concept..might require nasty coding, but man would it be cool. Especially if it can be used for future weapons or vehicles. I think it would be worth asking the devs to put time into coding something like that.

I agree..the key to selling this to the devs to 1) Show a fostering of cross profession participation & 2) Making it a benefit for both profession (make 2 professions happy with one new weapon...kill 2 birds with one stone)...

It has to be good for both Commandos and Squad Leaders and therefore should be useable by both...but each profession should have their specific bonuses to the weapon...and to foster the cross profession participation, grant bonuses when grouped...