Commando Archive
Thread: E-Web...An Interesting Idea to discuss...
Passive group bonuses are bad for things like accuracy and speed especially. Then you don't really need the SL for anything more than to stand there AFK. And I can almost guarantee the devs will say no to a concept that could put a very powerful heavy weapon in the hands of 19 commandos grouped with 1 SL to give them uber bonuses. The maximum effect of something like that is unbelievable. +30 defense is pretty good now that defenses work. When you make the ability an active ability it can be very powerful though because the SL has to actually spend HAM to use it and can presumably affect only one person at a time. That's why I've been proposing the actual weapon have a second "crew" slot to it where the SL can sort of plug himself in and then he and that Commando go crazy. There are examples in game (such as base shutdown) where you need one profession to do something and then a second profession does the next step. This would be a two step weapon that could be used by both in the first step but requires the second step to unlock the awesome power. (and the commando in the first slot to be really awesome.)
The deal with dabblers is that one person gets all the bonuses and can use them all to great effect by himself. If the weapon itself doesn't allow dabbling then it doesn't matter if you have the SL line and the Commando line. You can only affect one part of the weapon at a time. There would be no sense dabbling unless you intend to fill both roles from time to time.
Message Edited by DiLune on 04-23-2004 01:38 PM
DiLune wrote:
And the SL revamp is coming in a month. I will not ask the Devs to work on a weapon for the SL revamp that SL cannot themselves use. That's the nitty gritty of this whole thing. Commandos aren't the only militarily trained profession in the game. The other is SL. Right now SL is support only.
Ster wrote:
InquisitorPayne wrote:
Commando only, eh?
Sorry, bubba, ain't gonna happen.
Listen, i am a very tolerant person and when i heard of the original idea i was absolutely for it. I thought the idea was great.
But reading yourn post, all i gotta say is:
We will either do it the SL way or not at all. Let us see how much luck the Commandos have if we recall our support for this idea.....
Dogg
Seems a little harsh Payne. And on the other side of the coin, you are using a heavy weapon; that is our domain. To tell you the truth, I dont think this is going to happen without the support from both of us. Just because a profession is up for a revamp doesnt mean they are going to take a core ability away from the commandos by giving another profession the heaviest weapon in the game. I might have sounded a little harsh, but when you are trying to implement something like this in a game and propose it you have to deal with people that have different views than you. Just post back with what you like and what you didnt like so that a middle ground can be found. This is what I have been doing with Panzer as of late.
Um...once again you make a statement saying that my proposal isnt "sharing" with SL...yet it is.....and in your 2nd remark, you say it bluntly...
...reread what i wrote, SL's skills are to enhance their group members...certain skills for turrets enhance the turret gunner...if that isnt "sharing" then even with the revamp SL has no purpose..if thats the case you make...
SL "shares" with all the combat proffessions..in what? leadership.....that same thing should be applied to all fronts...a portable turret and groups alike...they dont "share" in the weaponry, they share in how effective a group can be...or in our case here, how effective an E-Webb can be....your case only stands (that commando is trying to make the e-webb only for them and not for SL..which is not at all what I said [just they shouldnt have cert...WHICH makes sense...but they have the LEADERSHIP to efficiently use the weapon]...your case only stands if I gave out real figures and numbers and being totally one sided...I simply gave an Idea that could be approved on..and even more leadership skills given to SL to better improve an e-webb weapon emplacement...
That at all is not being selfish in either way...the Commando provides the guns, the SL provides the leadership..its a simple and effective combo..rather than having two different styles of e-webb..(1 being stronger, 1 being weaker pertaining to the skill sets of either prof)...and in personal opinion would be the most effective measure to go...
Message Edited by StarNick on 04-23-2004 09:34 PM
First off, sorry, if i come by so harsh, i am just a bit disappointed (for obvious reasons). It is not you personally, i am ranting at, it is more in a general direction. Sorry if you took it up as a personal attack.
Ster wrote:
I would like to ask a couple of questions now actually to help understand the SLs view better:
1. What kind of skills and how much would you like to give the SL for this weapon?
Well, the most common ground among SLs is, that Commandos should be the damage dealers with the E-Web. Personally, i would jst like to give SL accuracy and sped, nothing else. Other want the ability to use suppression fire and an AE warning shot with it. I can live with that as well.
2. Would you like to see an entire tree based around this proffesion for the SL?
I would like to see it implemented in the "mobility" tree, to spice up the terrain negotiation and not make that column look so barren and empty.
3. What kind of skills would you like to give the Commandos for this weapon?
Commandos should have the specials with it. I never made my mind up about what kind of specials, just that they should have the exclusive access to the high damage specials. In short: High Dmage AE attacks (i would say mostly random pool attacks). Maybe even including AE Knockdown (but that is a thin line here, not to screw up carbineers)
4. Would both take it out solo or only grouped?
Both should be able to use it solo. There is no need to waste skillpoints by not making it useable solo. The difference would be:
The commando having about 30 accuracy and speed with it would be able to use their special, but they would be terribly slow with it, so that a Flamethrower might be the better solution.
The SL on th eother hand would have about 80 accuracy and speed with it, but no specials, basically stuck to autoattack (and maybe suppression fire), so they would most likely be better off with another weapon, like a carbine, or rifle.
Once together, the Commando should be the gunner and the SL the energy handler, to maximize the damage, able to create massive amounts of damage as a Team. The SL would have to give up his attacks to operate the energy handler, though.
Also, I wouldnt mind if you commented on some of the proposal that I gave earlier in a rather long post. It was a very hard attempt at a middle ground to benefit both professions. And btw, this post was very constructive and helpful in understanding the SLs point of view, thank you.
I will try
Dogg
OK, I read this thread and here are my thoughts and I will explain why for each one as best as I can (feeling under the weather today):
What Mater Commandoes (and no less) Should Get:
1) Certification for the E-web (self explanatory).
2) +25 Accuracy/ +25 Speed (basic gunnery skills).
3) 2 specials, one an area of attack posture change to prone no matter the stance (a suppressive fire that does 2-3x damage) and the other a single target overpower type shot for attacking hard targets, like turrets (a concentrated fire that does 4-5x damage).
Message Edited by Hellshot on 04-23-2004 03:04 PM
Message Edited by Ster on 04-24-2004 10:22 AM
Has anyone considered the idea of always counting as "prone" when using the E-Web for the purpose of firing accuracy and being hit in Melee? That's enough to make it unusable solo.
another issue to consider in this debate is sellability to the devs.
if they see this as an attempt by commandos to obtain an uber weapon, they will shoot us down out of hand. if..on the other hand ...they can see it as a way to increase player interdependency ..they are waaay more likely to go for it. i for one dont mind sharing this fantastic item with another much maligned class. kudos to garvin for the great idea.
as for the possibilties for pvp...go to lucas arts battlefront page and check out their screenshots. in them you will find a static mounted cannon. it is a commandos dream come true. a weapon like this could lock down certain strategic areas. its strength being massive damage and speed..it weakness, the interdependance feature and immobilty.
good luck fellow commandos
