Commando Archive
Thread: Weapon Cert.
garvin wrote:Ok...maybe I missed something here, but what pistol or carbine is going into the game that a Pistoleer or Carbineer can't "get"? Mastering Pistoleer and Combat Medic (to get the Alliance Pistol) still leaves the player with 52 points remaining...52...plenty to get even more skills and abilities...I don't think all weapons should be restricted or available to all professions WITHIN their own trees...A Pistoleer who combines with Combat Medic get's a BONUS in the way of a new Pistol they can use...and a Combat Medic is ENCOURAGED to dabble Pistoleer to get the "specific" pistol mods to make their use of that pistol even better. It would be the same with any Carbine placed outside the Carbineer profession...just because it's outside your profession, that doesn't mean you don't have access to it...Shop for it...if it's important to you, spent the points to get it...So, please, somebody explain to me how putting a pistol or carbine in another profession's trees cuts off their access to that weapon...I'd be cool if the Devs put a Heavy Weapon in the Master Box of another profession AS LONG as our Heavy Weapon mods effected it most (which means, we'd have a REASON to go get it, and we'd pick up better mods and abilities to boot along the way).
Oh, also a master commando gets ALL of their weapons in 121 skill points. It takes a pistoleer 290 skill points to get some of their weapons (Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, Master Combat Medic -- I am not even counting the Squad Leader pistol, Scatter Pistol or Launcher Pistol)... Hrm... I see a problem there.
Normally I would not care, since I was not a pistoleer, but due to the changes in CM pre-reqs, I have to go pistoleer to maintain one master elite combat profession, so I am kinda upset that I do not get to use many of my weapons.
Message Edited by TheBlacknight15 on 04-06-2005 08:50 PM
TheBlacknight15 wrote:
garvin wrote:
Ok...maybe I missed something here, but what pistol or carbine is going into the game that a Pistoleer or Carbineer can't "get"? Mastering Pistoleer and Combat Medic (to get the Alliance Pistol) still leaves the player with 52 points remaining...52...plenty to get even more skills and abilities...
I don't think all weapons should be restricted or available to all professions WITHIN their own trees...A Pistoleer who combines with Combat Medic get's a BONUS in the way of a new Pistol they can use...and a Combat Medic is ENCOURAGED to dabble Pistoleer to get the "specific" pistol mods to make their use of that pistol even better. It would be the same with any Carbine placed outside the Carbineer profession...just because it's outside your profession, that doesn't mean you don't have access to it...Shop for it...if it's important to you, spent the points to get it...
So, please, somebody explain to me how putting a pistol or carbine in another profession's trees cuts off their access to that weapon...I'd be cool if the Devs put a Heavy Weapon in the Master Box of another profession AS LONG as our Heavy Weapon mods effected it most (which means, we'd have a REASON to go get it, and we'd pick up better mods and abilities to boot along the way).
Oh, also a master commando gets ALL of their weapons in 121 skill points. It takes a pistoleer 290 skill points to get some of their weapons (Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, Master Combat Medic -- I am not even counting the Squad Leader pistol, Scatter Pistol or Launcher Pistol)... Hrm... I see a problem there.
Normally I would not care, since I was not a pistoleer, but due to the changes in CM pre-reqs, I have to go pistoleer to maintain one master elite combat profession, so I am kinda upset that I do not get to use many of my weapons.
Message Edited by TheBlacknight15 on 04-06-2005 08:50 PM
same situation with carbineers, though its estimated at a little over 300 for us depending on where the final certs are put, thats where i have the problem not that the weapons are in other trees
TheBlacknight15 wrote:
garvin wrote:
Ok...maybe I missed something here, but what pistol or carbine is going into the game that a Pistoleer or Carbineer can't "get"? Mastering Pistoleer and Combat Medic (to get the Alliance Pistol) still leaves the player with 52 points remaining...52...plenty to get even more skills and abilities...
I don't think all weapons should be restricted or available to all professions WITHIN their own trees...A Pistoleer who combines with Combat Medic get's a BONUS in the way of a new Pistol they can use...and a Combat Medic is ENCOURAGED to dabble Pistoleer to get the "specific" pistol mods to make their use of that pistol even better. It would be the same with any Carbine placed outside the Carbineer profession...just because it's outside your profession, that doesn't mean you don't have access to it...Shop for it...if it's important to you, spent the points to get it...
So, please, somebody explain to me how putting a pistol or carbine in another profession's trees cuts off their access to that weapon...I'd be cool if the Devs put a Heavy Weapon in the Master Box of another profession AS LONG as our Heavy Weapon mods effected it most (which means, we'd have a REASON to go get it, and we'd pick up better mods and abilities to boot along the way).
Oh, also a master commando gets ALL of their weapons in 121 skill points. It takes a pistoleer 290 skill points to get some of their weapons (Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, Master Combat Medic -- I am not even counting the Squad Leader pistol, Scatter Pistol or Launcher Pistol)... Hrm... I see a problem there.
Normally I would not care, since I was not a pistoleer, but due to the changes in CM pre-reqs, I have to go pistoleer to maintain one master elite combat profession, so I am kinda upset that I do not get to use many of my weapons.
Message Edited by TheBlacknight15 on 04-06-2005 08:50 PM
Well...Many Commandos have said for a long time that Commandos should have the Beam Rifle cert...Those who really want it, can not get it, but they have to Take up Squad Leader to get it (the Beam Rifle USE TO BE our cert)...Is that wrong...nope...Heck, Rifleman have a legit claim on that weapon too...
Currently in game Bomb Droids are capable of doing more damage then any of our Grenades or our Rocket Launcher. Bomb Droids also do Blast Damage, can be set to /follow the target (which gives them perfect accuracy), don't damge the user if caught in the blast radius AND can be detonated BEYOND 64m...Sounds like a weapon that Commandos should have access too, but to get the cert, we need to go Smuggler or BH...Is that wrong...maybe in current game play, but with our pre-req, it's not so bad...
So basically what I'm trying to say is...There are plenty of examples of different professions have certs that their pre-reqs or even post-reqs don't explain...It's not just there because "they know how to use it"...it's there as (1) a reward, (2) because they need SOME weapon, and most importantly (3) to give other professions more of a reason to want to dabble....
Whether folks like it or not, this is not going to change...This game will always have the attitude of "if you want it bad enough, go get it"...It will also always focus on giving folks a reason to make sacrifices and desire different paths. Putting a pistol in CM accomplishes 3 goals...It gives them a non-consumable weapon fo their own...It gives CM's a reason to want to gain more combat skills (especially pistoleer)...and lastly, it gives Pistoleers a reason to consider dabbling CM. Giving CM's a Pistol does not make them over-powered...and giving everything to everybody who thinks they deserve it for whatever reason brings the focus away from the "dabbling focus of this game" back to the "Specific Profession Stand-Alone mentality"....
For example: Beam Rifle renamed and moved changed to "Heavy Weapon". Launcher Pistol renamed "Grenade Launcher" and call it a "Heavy Weapon". BH LLC and Scatter pistols become "Shotgun" type weapons since they are not one bolt, but instead cover an area. Squad Leaders get whatever they pick up from marksman. CM get whatever they pick up from marksman. Smuggler get pistols from pistols1-4, and if they want more they pick up pistoleer.
They can make our professions more unique by giving us our own weapons instead of sharing the same 4 general types (Rifle, Pistol, Heavy, Carbine). I think they should allow us to create characters as we want to with professions such as SL, CM, etc. Do not force us to take up pistols. Allow us to pick up carbines or riflemen if we like. Just because a CM's heal range is around 34meters does not mean they should be restricted to pistols because their max range is 32 meters. Allow people to make their own decisions, and pay the consequence when they have to get up and run from 64meters (if they are a rifleman) out to try and heal their melee friend tanking for them.
garvin wrote:
I can agree on your point if this was a true commando profession, but it isnt. Commandos use light weapons not heavy weapons. Sure they might have some training in them, but they are not their primary weapon. The commando profession pre CU and CU is a heavy weapon specialist hands down. With unarmed thrown in as a symbolic gesture to keep the name commando.The commando profession primary focus should be on light ranged and heavy ranged weapons. The only common sense melee/ranged hybrid should be smuggler.
That's where we see things differently...I see Commandos as the "fighting soldier"...and to me, this means the Commando is skilled at doing heavy damage at all ranges from Melee to Ranged. Our unarmed pre-req makes sense to give us that ability in Melee range that we need.
To me, Commando is like the Navy Seals...it's the next level that you can take...and Navy Seals learn Hand 2 Hand combat as well as Weapon Use...
To make a commando profession in SWG modeled after something like the NavySEALs one would need to combine the carbine (assault weapon with heavy fire suppression), rifleman (sniper ability), scout (speed of movement and stealth), and TK (close quarters/toughness) professions.
Goal of the heavy weaponsplatoonis to provide direct fire support to the grunts. This can be in terms of mortars, heavy machine guns,grenade launchers, and anti tank weapons. SEALS dont do that as their primary mission and its a waste of resources if they are. If a heavy weapons platoon got overrun on the battlefield then all hell has broken loose and those guys need to fall back.
SWG almost has the heavy weapons platoon soldier right. Need to add mortars and heavy machine guns (WEB cannon).
So why dont we do it right?
Message Edited by RohmEnari on 04-07-2005 12:30 AM
Helios_SOE wrote:
Oh alright (that's actually were it went, heh).
...But I thought Wookie Riflemen wanted to use Bowcasters? No?
Speaking as a wook, I'd looooooooooove it if we could have Bowcasters usuable by all ranged profs. I love Carbineer and would do anything to be able to have me a "carbine" with a "Bowcaster skin". I don't want to have to pick up Riflewook just to be able to use a Bowcaster 
Forget specific bowcaster stats - just like the armour cores, give us weapon cores that wook weaponsmiths can place bowcaster skins over! That would be sooooooooo sweet...
- Ymo
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Helios_SOE wrote:
Ricbr wrote:
Give it to the Rifleman
I want my Wookiee Rifleman to use this
Oh alright (that's actually were it went, heh).
...But I thought Wookie Riflemen wanted to use Bowcasters? No?
Helios_SOE wrote:
JoKen_Jash wrote:
I've also heard that the massassi is certed to Commandos, and the proton is certed to the Commandos, and some people still think the blasterfistis acommando weapon. I wish they would release the profession docs like they said they would or at least give us some clarification as to who gets what.
But if the BHs get the Proton carbine, and we get this friggen... rock with a handle and a blade sticking through it, I'm going to be VERY UNHAPPY.
Since when was the masassi rifle "commandoesque" anyway? I mean, the proton isn't bounty hunteresque, since when did they run around with assault rifles shooting down their prey? That's our job!
None of the certs are set in stone at this stage. Up until last night, Commandos were slated for the Massassi Ink Rifle. As a testament of how things are likely to change throughout the course of testing (based on constructive feedback and testing experience), the Massassi Ink Rifle is no longer certed to Commandos.
This is just one of the several changes to weapons that may make it onto TC within the next couple of days (subject to change, of course).
Well...if it's one thing that has been said over and over in this community...things definitely do and will change, so we were prepared to hear this and I'm sure the cert was removed for great (yet to be heard) reasons...
Now...the question is...Will Commandos be getting a Master Tier weapon like many other combat professions have? I know that some weapon certs may not show up until "looted", but any possibility of some insight on what to expect?
Currently Commandos have more non-consumable weapons then any other profession, so I understand if the Devs don't want to give us anything else new as a "cert'd from start" weapon...I understand it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it ...You know me...I'm greedy...But on that note, if no other weapons are being cert'd or are currently planned to be cert'd (if this is the case), any possibility of moving around some of our certs (like Moving the RL up to Master Commando, then moving another weapon to a Level 1 box (not the FT...I don't want to see it lose it's current power level at Level 3).
Again...thanks for the update...Change is totally understandable and I'm sure it's not the last big change that we'll be seeing...There are no "promises" until this is all set in stone on the live servers...
Now...the question is...Will Commandos be getting a Master Tier weapon like many other combat professions have? I know that some weapon certs may not show up until "looted", but any possibility of some insight on what to expect?
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-06-2005 12:37 PM