Commando Archive
Thread: Weapon Cert.
Helios_SOE wrote:
Ricbr wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
JoKen_Jash wrote:
I've also heard that the massassi is certed to Commandos, and the proton is certed to the Commandos, and some people still think the blasterfist is a commando weapon. I wish they would release the profession docs like they said they would or at least give us some clarification as to who gets what.
But if the BHs get the Proton carbine, and we get this friggen... rock with a handle and a blade sticking through it, I'm going to be VERY UNHAPPY.
Since when was the masassi rifle "commandoesque" anyway? I mean, the proton isn't bounty hunteresque, since when did they run around with assault rifles shooting down their prey? That's our job!
None of the certs are set in stone at this stage. Up until last night, Commandos were slated for the Massassi Ink Rifle. As a testament of how things are likely to change throughout the course of testing (based on constructive feedback and testing experience), the Massassi Ink Rifle is no longer certed to Commandos.
This is just one of the several changes to weapons that may make it onto TC within the next couple of days (subject to change, of course).
Give it to the Rifleman
I want my Wookiee Rifleman to use this
Oh alright (that's actually were it went, heh).
...But I thought Wookie Riflemen wanted to use Bowcasters? No?
make bowcaster t21 equivalent for fookies...ink rifle something more "ancient" for us non-fur-rug-balls
RM-125 wrote:
TheBlacknight15 wrote:
Sifer2 wrote:
I swear to god if you give them the Underslung Carbine im going to be so pissed. I plan to grab every Carbine box in the game pretty much just to make sure I can get it. But knowing you guys you'll throw it in the one tree I dont have points to get that might in theory be able to use it. Give them a Grenade Launcher or something. But I want the Mini-gun for myself.
Hey, I am pissed since CM being forced into Pistoleer, and all the decent/new pistols are for smugglers. Why do smugglers get all the good pistols anyway? You would think a MASTER PISTOLEER would be able to use them. You should alow dual certifications for items, so a smuggler can use items if they are not a master pistoleer, but at the same time a master pistoleer can use any and all pistols, except maybe the scatter pistol. Same thing should apply to rifles and carbines.
So here is a chart:
0404 Marksman + Master Smuggler = Current pistols for smuggler.
0404 Marksman + Master Pistoleer = ALL PISTOLS.
Doesn't that make sense? I do not see why a smuggler would be cetified for a specific pistol that a master can not use. Same thing applies to the new CM pistol. I think a Master Pistoleer should be able to use it, but it will not have any special attributes or moves that a Master Combat Medic using the pistol would have.
Yeah... So Helios_SOE, pass this idea on to the team! We need to have a MASTER of any profession certified for 99% of that weapon type in the game, not the current system that gives them only a 75% (not sure on exact percentage) of them. And that 1% can be the launcher pistol for commandos and the scatter for BH.The CM pistol isn't bad but considering I am a RPer, I don't see myself getting any benefit from using a ALLIANCE DISRUPTOR as an Imperial Stormtrooper. Why they couldn't have given it a more generic, neutral name is beyond me but that just screams "Hey! I am part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor. Take me away!"
Helios, any chance we could see a name change on that weapon?
Message Edited by RM-125 on 04-06-2005 05:02 PM
I don't mind us getting the pistol, I am just upset that a person who has dedicated their life to Pistol Combat is unable to use this pistol.
in a cone of fire.
What a Commando really needs is a personnel area effect weapon. An artillery piece. Every single weapon that we have is small arms. Commandos should be able to use a vehicle that can fire like an artillery piece.
These weapon system would benefit from having a Squad leader to control fire and a forward obeserver to target them.
I love the changes, they are going to be fanastic, butgetting heavy equipment involved would take it to a whole new level! Maybe for the next expantion...
Blackjack_Nova wrote:
The whole problem with all of these weapon upgrades is they are for group warfare with the group being
in a cone of fire.
What a Commando really needs is a personnel area effect weapon. An artillery piece. Every single weapon that we have is small arms. Commandos should be able to use a vehicle that can fire like an artillery piece.
These weapon system would benefit from having a Squad leader to control fire and a forward obeserver to target them.
I love the changes, they are going to be fanastic, butgetting heavy equipment involved would take it to a whole new level! Maybe for the next expantion...
Instead if an entire artillery piece. Maybe a mortar or something like that.
They could place it on the ground, kind of like an omni box.
Wolfmann31 wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
JoKen_Jash wrote:I've also heard that the massassi is certed to Commandos, and the proton is certed to the Commandos, and some people still think the blasterfist is a commando weapon. I wish they would release the profession docs like they said they would or at least give us some clarification as to who gets what.But if the BHs get the Proton carbine, and we get this friggen... rock with a handle and a blade sticking through it, I'm going to be VERY UNHAPPY.Since when was the masassi rifle "commandoesque" anyway? I mean, the proton isn't bounty hunteresque, since when did they run around with assault rifles shooting down their prey? That's our job!None of the certs are set in stone at this stage. Up until last night, Commandos were slated for the Massassi Ink Rifle. As a testament of how things are likely to change throughout the course of testing (based on constructive feedback and testing experience), the Massassi Ink Rifle is no longer certed to Commandos.
This is just one of the several changes to weapons that may make it onto TC within the next couple of days (subject to change, of course).
See? Told you devs had a sense of fashion when it came to looking good.
No ugleh guns for us.
*begs and prays for the Proton Carbine*
I think it's blasphmous for a carbineer to not be able to weild a carbine!
garvin wrote:
The game is full of weapons certs not being dependent on pre-reqs...the key thing is, if we did geta weapon like theUnderslung Carbine, many Commandos would likely find it's in their best interest to get Carbine 4...nothing says we can't dabble for those better carbine skills.
As for our current pre-reqs, prior to testing, I'm actually happy with them....we have tons more doors open to us then we would if we just had a carbine and pistol pre-req...We are also suppose to be the "Comabt Elite" as a Melee/Range hybrid. Of all the unarmed trees, unarmed "fits" us best in my mind (hand 2 hand combat...before you can use a knife right, you first have to learn to fight).
I can agree on your point if this was a true commando profession, but it isnt. Commandos use light weapons not heavy weapons. Sure they might have some training in them, but they are not their primary weapon. The commando profession pre CU and CU is a heavy weapon specialist hands down. With unarmed thrown in as a symbolic gesture to keep the name commando.The commando profession primary focus should be on light ranged and heavy ranged weapons. The only common sense melee/ranged hybrid should be smuggler.
This is our chance to remold the profession. Either we remold it as a heavy profession using heavy weapons or as a commando profession using light arms and unarmed skills. Best case scenario would be for the DEVs to make a new profession called Heavy Weapons specialist and have the commando profession a true commando profession. Cant be that hard. just canibalize other professions to make it. i am sure has a community we could piece the profession together in a couple days.
I never learntunarmed 4in my time in the military nor did those who used heavy weapons. We spent time learning rifle, pistol, and their specific weapon skills. Most of you all probably dont understand how difficult it is to become proficient at a crew served or heavy weapon. Small arms come relatively quick. I have used a M60, but there is no way I could be as efficient on the battlefield as someone who trains on it and knows the weapon inside and out.
I do not like all the new weapons spread out to other professions. Pistols should all be under pistol, rifles under rifle, etc. Give the CMs, SLs, and smugglers the certs, but also give the primary weapon specialty profession the cert too. Thatway you arent forcing people to goCM to use that pistol, or commando to use the carbine, or squadleader and so forth. We have all been waiting to use the new weapons, but what the DEVs have done has truely let me down. Its liketelling someone because they have learnt how to use the beretta9mm they cannot use the glock 9mm unless they go through a complete retraining of their weapon skills. Thats how silly theproposed system is.
Saratoga wrote:
garvin wrote:
The game is full of weapons certs not being dependent on pre-reqs...the key thing is, if we did geta weapon like theUnderslung Carbine, many Commandos would likely find it's in their best interest to get Carbine 4...nothing says we can't dabble for those better carbine skills.
As for our current pre-reqs, prior to testing, I'm actually happy with them....we have tons more doors open to us then we would if we just had a carbine and pistol pre-req...We are also suppose to be the "Comabt Elite" as a Melee/Range hybrid. Of all the unarmed trees, unarmed "fits" us best in my mind (hand 2 hand combat...before you can use a knife right, you first have to learn to fight).
I can agree on your point if this was a true commando profession, but it isnt. Commandos use light weapons not heavy weapons. Sure they might have some training in them, but they are not their primary weapon. The commando profession pre CU and CU is a heavy weapon specialist hands down. With unarmed thrown in as a symbolic gesture to keep the name commando.The commando profession primary focus should be on light ranged and heavy ranged weapons. The only common sense melee/ranged hybrid should be smuggler.
That's where we see things differently...I see Commandos as the "fighting soldier"...and to me, this means the Commando is skilled at doing heavy damage at all ranges from Melee to Ranged. Our unarmed pre-req makes sense to give us that ability in Melee range that we need.
To me, Commando is like the Navy Seals...it's the next level that you can take...and Navy Seals learn Hand 2 Hand combat as well as Weapon Use...
This is our chance to remold the profession. Either we remold it as a heavy profession using heavy weapons or as a commando profession using light arms and unarmed skills. Best case scenario would be for the DEVs to make a new profession called Heavy Weapons specialist and have the commando profession a true commando profession. Cant be that hard. just canibalize other professions to make it. i am sure has a community we could piece the profession together in a couple days.
The problem is you see us as "Heavy Weapons" where as I see us as "Heavy Damage"...Our role as "Heavy Weapon Specialists" isn't reserved to Heavy RANGED Weapon Specialists...The Commando is meant to be the FRONTLINE soldier, and sometimes that soldier has to put the gun down and pull out the Knife (or in our case, the Knucklers). So, I personally would hate the idea of us losing our Melee Pre-req (I'd be more open to switching it to some other Melee tree (maybe Fencer for a knife) or some other newly added Melee Support tree, but I'd hate to see us lose that Melee connection.
I never learntunarmed 4in my time in the military nor did those who used heavy weapons. We spent time learning rifle, pistol, and their specific weapon skills. Most of you all probably dont understand how difficult it is to become proficient at a crew served or heavy weapon. Small arms come relatively quick. I have used a M60, but there is no way I could be as efficient on the battlefield as someone who trains on it and knows the weapon inside and out.
But what about those soldiers who fight on the frontlines? Especially those who battle face to face with their opponents? What if you ended up inches away from a person trying to kill you...wouldn't knowing Hand 2 Hand come in handy? Why do Navy Seals learn to fight Hand 2 Hand?
I do not like all the new weapons spread out to other professions. Pistols should all be under pistol, rifles under rifle, etc. Give the CMs, SLs, and smugglers the certs, but also give the primary weapon specialty profession the cert too. Thatway you arent forcing people to goCM to use that pistol, or commando to use the carbine, or squadleader and so forth. We have all been waiting to use the new weapons, but what the DEVs have done has truely let me down. Its liketelling someone because they have learnt how to use the beretta9mm they cannot use the glock 9mm unless they go through a complete retraining of their weapon skills. Thats how silly theproposed system is.
By giving CMs a cert that a Pistoleer might want, this encourages the Pistoleer to dabble CM, while at the same time, encourages the CM to go for Pistoleer to better themselves with that weapon...it's a way to further give folks REASONS to dabble more strategically (do I go for the weapon, or do I go for better specials, or do I go for more defenses, etc). Don't think about it like a cert means you "know how to use something", but rather, because you took the time to graduate from this specialty, we decided to reward you with a weapon you didn't already own. A pistoleer who makes the effort to Master Combat Medic is rewarded with a new pistol cert as well as all the CM abilities they picked up along the way...seems pretty cool to me...Certs, especially at Master, are "rewards" not "next steps in your education"...
garvin wrote:Ok...maybe I missed something here, but what pistol or carbine is going into the game that a Pistoleer or Carbineer can't "get"? Mastering Pistoleer and Combat Medic (to get the Alliance Pistol) still leaves the player with 52 points remaining...52...plenty to get even more skills and abilities...I don't think all weapons should be restricted or available to all professions WITHIN their own trees...A Pistoleer who combines with Combat Medic get's a BONUS in the way of a new Pistol they can use...and a Combat Medic is ENCOURAGED to dabble Pistoleer to get the "specific" pistol mods to make their use of that pistol even better. It would be the same with any Carbine placed outside the Carbineer profession...just because it's outside your profession, that doesn't mean you don't have access to it...Shop for it...if it's important to you, spent the points to get it...So, please, somebody explain to me how putting a pistol or carbine in another profession's trees cuts off their access to that weapon...I'd be cool if the Devs put a Heavy Weapon in the Master Box of another profession AS LONG as our Heavy Weapon mods effected it most (which means, we'd have a REASON to go get it, and we'd pick up better mods and abilities to boot along the way).
Because they are forcing a 198 SP investment to get one pistol, which by normal logic should be available to a pistoleer anyway. I just think it would make more sense to add profession specific bonuses, not weapons. The entire point of making CM have a pistol is because of the CM communities long cry for a weapon that was not a poison/disease. They replied with ok, pick up pistol 4 and now you can have access to the Alliance Disruptor or whatever it is called.
I think it is rediculous that a Master Pistoleer is unable to wield some pistols, which is why I said professions such as BH and Commando should have their generic "pistols" and such replaced by "heavy weapons," "shotguns," or something different. That way you are getting a weapon for your profession, and not just some random gun that another profession would be better with. How would you like it if one of the better heavy weapons was placed inside of the Doctor class?
Also, what you are saying about giving just another profession a heavy weapon at master is forcing specific templates in order to be the best commando. That is like saying "give artisans a special BH gun to encourage them to branch out more". It just makes no sense. It is great to give more people weapons, but it is not good to force a MASTER of said weapon type to pick up an arbitrary healer or smuggler profession to gain a gun. They should pick up a healing profession because they want to heal others, and a smuggler profession because they want to smuggle thing.
I just think they need to make more defined weapon lines, and put a meaning to the word MASTER.
In conclusion:
Master by definition is (From dictionary.com):
- A worker qualified to teach apprentices and carry on the craft independently.
- An expert
- Highly skilled or proficient
So a MASTER [Profession] would be an expert with said weapon type. See the independently part up there? That means that the mastery of a specific weapon type would make them able to use ALL of said weapons, without learning other skills.
When was the last time you saw an expert Sniper who was unable to use a rifle because he/she was unable to treat patients in a hospital? Maybe they should change it from "Master [Profession]" to "Almost but not really a master [Profession]".