Commando Archive
Thread: Weapon Cert.
maRRsTu wrote:
I do think giving commando the unarmed weapon is silly commandos wont use it. Also keep in mind changing the requirements for commando is not that easy they dont want us to master 3 eleet combat classes.
Your wrong they will use it if they also pick up the TKA profession. That's the basic idea behind all these cross-profession certs. They are rewarding people for taking a profession combo. A Carbineer/Squad Leader gets to use the E5 for example. Pistoleer/Combat Medic also gets a sweet gun. It just seems like they are encouraging people to pick dual roles instead of only doing one thing. TKA/Commando was a popular combo before now it will still have some benefit as you can use the VK's.
Saratoga wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
Barb-Wire wrote:what we have here, and is my worst fear in the CU, is that we are relegated at master to using one weapon again and every rifleman running around with a T21 not because they like but because it is the biggest gun they can get in damage. there is no reason to use the DLT20 or DLT20a or E11 rifle once you graduate to the next tier.i think this flaw needs to be addressed or weapons will be right back to how they are live... everyone running around with only one weapon style and crafters only stocking that one type because its the FOTM weapon.That's one of my worst fears of the CU too, and I believe it will be much worse than it is on live currently. I mean, on live we actually have reasons to carry a variety of guns because of the many types of resists and AP. With the CU, there's pretty much only three guns/weapons you'll ever need (Best kinetic, best energy and an elemental one if you have a cert for one). Basically, a rifleman will carry a T21, a Jawa and whatever the best kinetic rifle is.
The weapons are faaaar too "leveled", they are faaaar too spread in their stats. There should be variety and diversity, players should get to choose whatever weapon they want because each weapon needs their own individual strengths and weaknesses. Without these, combat will be dumbed down to a best setup for each profession.
Guess Chewbacca was just ignorant to use the bowcaster...
Totally agree with you all. A rifle in the hands of a guy in basic is not the same as in the hands of someone who has been in the field a couple years. Same weapon, only the skill of the soldier has changed. Maybe they should do something like armor... have basic and advanced models. That way we can see people in scout trooper armor with adv E11 rifles like the movies instead of people in scout trooper armor with T21s. We are back to square one with respect to certs
Yep, or make it something like TKA is in live...
Skill mods throughout the profession that add accuracy, damage and speed.
Bah, guess we shouldn't bother throwing around these ideas here...
It's just that these days... I see a Red name and I want to get some discussions about weapon and armor certs.
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
maRRsTu wrote:
I do think giving commando the unarmed weapon is silly commandos wont use it. Also keep in mind changing the requirements for commando is not that easy they dont want us to master 3 eleet combat classes.
Changing the requirement from unarmed 4 (14 skill points) and novice brawler (15 SPs) to pistol 4 (14 SPs) and carbine 4 (14 SPs) will net the commandos one skill point. Dont think the one point would damage the overall balance. They would still keep the ranged support tree.
Sifer2 wrote:
I swear to god if you give them the Underslung Carbine im going to be so pissed. I plan to grab every Carbine box in the game pretty much just to make sure I can get it. But knowing you guys you'll throw it in the one tree I dont have points to get that might in theory be able to use it. Give them a Grenade Launcher or something. But I want the Mini-gun for myself.
Hey, I am pissed since CM being forced into Pistoleer, and all the decent/new pistols are for smugglers. Why do smugglers get all the good pistols anyway? You would think a MASTER PISTOLEER would be able to use them. You should alow dual certifications for items, so a smuggler can use items if they are not a master pistoleer, but at the same time a master pistoleer can use any and all pistols, except maybe the scatter pistol. Same thing should apply to rifles and carbines.
So here is a chart:
0404 Marksman + Master Smuggler = Current pistols for smuggler.
0404 Marksman + Master Pistoleer = ALL PISTOLS.
Doesn't that make sense? I do not see why a smuggler would be cetified for a specific pistol that a master can not use. Same thing applies to the new CM pistol. I think a Master Pistoleer should be able to use it, but it will not have any special attributes or moves that a Master Combat Medic using the pistol would have.
Yeah... So Helios_SOE, pass this idea on to the team! We need to have a MASTER of any profession certified for 99% of that weapon type in the game, not the current system that gives them only a 75% (not sure on exact percentage) of them. And that 1% can be the launcher pistol for commandos and the scatter for BH.
speaking of custom animations, something players have wanted forever is holsters..those are really cool...
Helios_SOE wrote:
Sifer2 wrote:
I swear to god if you give them the Underslung Carbine im going to be so pissed. I plan to grab every Carbine box in the game pretty much just to make sure I can get it. But knowing you guys you'll throw it in the one tree I dont have points to get that might in theory be able to use it. Give them a Grenade Launcher or something. But I want the Mini-gun for myself.
Unfortunately, since the underslung carbine is unlike any other weapon that a player can carry, it would need all custom animations made (which we don't have time for in CU). Therefore, no one is getting it.
garvin wrote:
What he means to say is....If it was possible to get it into game, Commandos would get it before Carbineers...and we'd put it really high up and hard for you to get...so there...
j/k
PS...I know the Underslung Carbine is a "someday maybe" weapon, but I'm still holding out hope for it...If Commandos do get an "assult rifle" via the CU (not counting the HAR because we are a bit weary of that one), then the only "HEAVY" weapon we are missing is a Carbine. And the Underslung Carbine is a good representation of a "Heavy Carbine".
Flare Gun - Power may be needed to amped up but it may fit.
Explosive Shell Sniper Rifle - Though it seems like a Master Level Rifleman rifle the matter that it explodes woudl semi fit into commando.
and for a long shot thing you can make a new weapon named Plasma Rifle, easily made by taking the Flamethrower gun hull, keeping the flame look and special types but just re-color the weapon FX from red to a blue and give it some new sounds.
again just my humble opinion
Saratoga wrote:
garvin wrote:
What he means to say is....If it was possible to get it into game, Commandos would get it before Carbineers...and we'd put it really high up and hard for you to get...so there...
j/k
PS...I know the Underslung Carbine is a "someday maybe" weapon, but I'm still holding out hope for it...If Commandos do get an "assult rifle" via the CU (not counting the HAR because we are a bit weary of that one), then the only "HEAVY" weapon we are missing is a Carbine. And the Underslung Carbine is a good representation of a "Heavy Carbine".
And if the commandos do get a carbine they should have carbine 4 as a prequirement. Supports changing from unarmed 4 and brawler to carbine 4 and pistol 4
The game is full of weapons certs not being dependent on pre-reqs...the key thing is, if we did geta weapon like theUnderslung Carbine, many Commandos would likely find it's in their best interest to get Carbine 4...nothing says we can't dabble for those better carbine skills.
As for our current pre-reqs, prior to testing, I'm actually happy with them....we have tons more doors open to us then we would if we just had a carbine and pistol pre-req...We are also suppose to be the "Comabt Elite" as a Melee/Range hybrid. Of all the unarmed trees, unarmed "fits" us best in my mind (hand 2 hand combat...before you can use a knife right, you first have to learn to fight).
The problem with certifications is they have blurred too many combat professions together and in doing so have taken away from master combatants of just one specialty (riflemen, pistoleer, carbineer, etc...).
Example 1:
Combat Medics: While I love to see us getting a gun, we are not the only ones qualified for it. As nice as it is to give combat medic's their own weapon, combat medics are NOT pistoleers, and should not have exclusive access to a pistol.
Example 2:
Smugglers... Clearly a profession that would use a pistol, but aren't they trying to avoid the law instead of fighting it? The smuggler branch should not be desired because pistoleers get the good guns there, but because people want to fight dirty. Give them specials that pistoleers and TK's do not get, but rely on the fact that they are supposed to be full of tricks instead of taking away from another professions equipment list. Maybe have an unarmed move that "grabs" the opponent and shoot him/her in the stomach area? Or a ranged ability to increase running spead to escape authorities instead of killing them and drawing more attention to themself...
Example 3:
I do not want to start an arguement, but doctors and combat medics are completly different. Doctors should NOT be able to run into a fight and survive without a combat profession. Take away their armor certification because they are not supposed to be in combat, especially since combat medics can rez now. They should sit in the back of the field in a camp or something buffing those who were resurected by combat medics, patching wounds, and enhancing.
Example 4:
Bounty Hunters/Commandos should have access to weapons specific to their job. BH hunt jedi, and because of this have a pistol that shoots multiple bolts as to make it hard to block. Commandos get rocket launchers to take out the big stuff. They should not be snipers, but use their own weapon types in order to deal damage. Remove the scatter pistol from the "pistol" catagory and place it in a "(handheld) Shotgun" catagory or something like that. Weapons such as rocket launchers, flame throwers, etc. obviously belong to commando's because there is no "Flame Thrower" tree in marksman. Rename the launcher pistol "Grenade Launcher" and you will be set.
So there is my problems with current weapon specifications. If they were to clarify who is supposed to be using what, a lot of the fighting for new weapons would be solved. So combine this with the removal of weapon base damage and move it to character base damage and boom! You will see everyone using different equipment, instead of power hammers and geo pistols everywhere.
Message Edited by TheBlacknight15 on 04-06-2005 05:55 PM
garvin wrote:
Saratoga wrote:
garvin wrote:
What he means to say is....If it was possible to get it into game, Commandos would get it before Carbineers...and we'd put it really high up and hard for you to get...so there...
j/k
PS...I know the Underslung Carbine is a "someday maybe" weapon, but I'm still holding out hope for it...If Commandos do get an "assult rifle" via the CU (not counting the HAR because we are a bit weary of that one), then the only "HEAVY" weapon we are missing is a Carbine. And the Underslung Carbine is a good representation of a "Heavy Carbine".
And if the commandos do get a carbine they should have carbine 4 as a prequirement. Supports changing from unarmed 4 and brawler to carbine 4 and pistol 4
The game is full of weapons certs not being dependent on pre-reqs...the key thing is, if we did geta weapon like theUnderslung Carbine, many Commandos would likely find it's in their best interest to get Carbine 4...nothing says we can't dabble for those better carbine skills.
As for our current pre-reqs, prior to testing, I'm actually happy with them....we have tons more doors open to us then we would if we just had a carbine and pistol pre-req...We are also suppose to be the "Comabt Elite" as a Melee/Range hybrid. Of all the unarmed trees, unarmed "fits" us best in my mind (hand 2 hand combat...before you can use a knife right, you first have to learn to fight).
ok which certs aren't based on pre-recs? CM, pistoleer, and Smuggler need pistol line so they all get pistols.
BH's have a carbine line, a pistol line, and a rifle line in their skill tree so they get one of each. Carbineers get carbines because they are carbineers, same with rifleman with rifles.
SL gets a pistol a rifle and a carbine because its not a viable combat profession on its own so it needs the support of one of those classes so its only fair they get one of each.
Commando is just out there on its own and should either still require master marksman if it wants carbines rifles and pistols, or they should get new heavy weapons that are actually heavy weapons and not pistols carbines or rifles which they aren't trained in to use.
TheBlacknight15 wrote:
Sifer2 wrote:
I swear to god if you give them the Underslung Carbine im going to be so pissed. I plan to grab every Carbine box in the game pretty much just to make sure I can get it. But knowing you guys you'll throw it in the one tree I dont have points to get that might in theory be able to use it. Give them a Grenade Launcher or something. But I want the Mini-gun for myself.
Hey, I am pissed since CM being forced into Pistoleer, and all the decent/new pistols are for smugglers. Why do smugglers get all the good pistols anyway? You would think a MASTER PISTOLEER would be able to use them. You should alow dual certifications for items, so a smuggler can use items if they are not a master pistoleer, but at the same time a master pistoleer can use any and all pistols, except maybe the scatter pistol. Same thing should apply to rifles and carbines.
So here is a chart:
0404 Marksman + Master Smuggler = Current pistols for smuggler.
0404 Marksman + Master Pistoleer = ALL PISTOLS.
Doesn't that make sense? I do not see why a smuggler would be cetified for a specific pistol that a master can not use. Same thing applies to the new CM pistol. I think a Master Pistoleer should be able to use it, but it will not have any special attributes or moves that a Master Combat Medic using the pistol would have.
Yeah... So Helios_SOE, pass this idea on to the team! We need to have a MASTER of any profession certified for 99% of that weapon type in the game, not the current system that gives them only a 75% (not sure on exact percentage) of them. And that 1% can be the launcher pistol for commandos and the scatter for BH.
The CM pistol isn't bad but considering I am a RPer, I don't see myself getting any benefit from using a ALLIANCE DISRUPTOR as an Imperial Stormtrooper. Why they couldn't have given it a more generic, neutral name is beyond me but that just screams "Hey! I am part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor. Take me away!"
Helios, any chance we could see a name change on that weapon?
Message Edited by RM-125 on 04-06-2005 05:02 PM