Commando Archive
Thread: To all you wanna be commandos about the 2X damage
TlaneAZ1234 I have to make a 2nd reply to your long post.
Pls explain to me where in all of my posting was I attacking the commando profession itself...it is quite the opposite, in which i am advocating that the commando profession itself as a whole is more divrse than just the flame thrower skill tree..
I am sure you as a commando would appreciate that...
I will address each of your points as you pointed them out
1) who cares about dabbler....you should. They are what causes our pofession to get hit with the nerf bat hard. We all know deep inside the flame thrower was over powered as is and with the 2X damage to melee would be a good trade off and fix many issues with other classes crying to nerf our entire profession. as a commando we have other assets to fall back on..the dabbler do not. It should be our goal to have the devs fix the rest of our class since the balanced out the flame thrower. Once the Devs nerf us, the dabbler will leave, and we the few will stand alone and have to deal with the fall out of the nerf of our profession, while the dabbler move on to combat medic or TKA.
2) did I make a type somehwhere that stated the grenades were not in the field tactics skill tree? if so oops my mistake, but I only recall saying we had grenades at our disposal to use in combat in our arsenal.
Nor do I recall starting a discussion about a change in how HW award xp types....hmmmm, I think that is something you should ask our Correspondent. No where in this thread did I ever touch on that.
3) I agree with you here...they should increase the charges on weapons, something we have been asking for, even before we got the commando patch. But alas that fell on deaf ears so far. However the kneeling down thing and taking damage is only natural....the thing is why would you use a charged weapon when a melee is right on you?
As for the HAR yups it needs work still. Never did I dispute that in any place..in fact I never really brought up the HAR except to say that it still needs work.
The Launcher pistol is or was the bread and butter of the commando before the big patch. It is what got most Master commando to where they are today. Yes we have no specials for the launcher pistol in the commando line, but we can use the specials from the marksman line...have you tried a 500+ damage Launcher pistols with those specials?? wicked is all I can say....plus a VERY fast way to get faction pts ( I have grinded over 85K faction pts with the launcher pistol alone, no AT-ST).
4) Well here is the big debate....uber or not so uber, that is the question. Because we are carrying charged weapons, heavy weapons that take 2X damage, launcher pistol, laser rifle, FWG5,and grenades....are we supposed to be the elite class of all of the server..should we own everyone 100% of the time every time we engage in PvP?
Those for the Aye's say
We spend more pts than any class in combat related fields and thus should be the elite solist of all combat classes...no one should beat us ever and to do so is a profound insult to the commando profession. all our wepaons should be ranged and all speacials should be ranged as well (beyond the 16 meter limit). Futher more Commandos should not have any negative or disadvantages at all for carrying a bulky weapons the size of a flag pole with a 50 lbs container strapped to our backs filled with liquid to fuel said flag pole.
the Nays say...
Balance is must to the profession as there needs to be a danger and a consenquence to making a wrong decision...such wrong decisions could be using the wrong weapon at the wrong time. Also we understood when we took this class that is was inteded to be a pure support class to assist other in the biog picture of things. Thus the commando would be very group friendly and wanted by all. as such the commando profession has gone well beyond that with the commando patch making grouping for the class totally uneccessary. In fact the commando became so strong that grouing the commando in PvE hurt the gorup as whole, because it soaked up at least 50% or more of the xp in a large grp, leaving everyone else with scraps.
Not to mention that one on one in pvP, the Commando could pretty much run up to any class and one shot kill their opponent, their pets and anyhting else that stood ni the commandos way. Also the commando could kite a melee even in melee range because the melee did little to no damage before commando HW fix/nerf, thus any melee had 0, yes 0% chance of ever killing a commando, who is carriyng a flag pole and a 50 lbs container in his back filled with liquid.
So you tell me which is it? Aye or Nay?
5) to be honest I have absolutely no clue why the devs put this in as a req.....but it does gives us additional options in combat. you trained it..why not use it? As for gaining melee benefits while carrying a flamer, good argument, but again there is 2 sides here....1) we are not forced to have a heavy weapon in our hands 100% of the time. 2) if circumstances demand it of us, go unarmed till you are no longer fighting a melee....then switch to HW when fighting other like NPC/PC wielding ranged weapons. Or use the launcher pistol against melee...take far less damage (no 2X penalty)
6) Nope..and this is where your group mates come in to help and assist you in your time of need. and this is where you have to choose what wepaon types you have to use...again HW is not your only option in melee fights.
7) If you thinkI was attacking the commando prefession as a whole then you misread all of my posts completely.
If you believe i am attacking the Flame tree and only this is what interest you then you are right
No where did i ever attack then commando profession as a whole, nor have I stated any untruths about the profession. Yes the profession still needs work, but you also have to come half way and admit, that the commando is not only about the flamethrower and this is all ppl are whining about..they do not give a care about us and could care less if we got nerfed to hell and back..they will simply move on and become whatever is the flavor of the month....
as for flaming you...well If you truly take the time to read my posts and see wher ei am coming form I think you will see the passion I have for the commando line and why I am so upset that everyone has a flame thrower, and why we are facing the biggest nerf yet because of it...i am really scared that we will get hit so hard by the Dev nerf bat, that the days before the "big commando patch" will seem like the good ole days.
as for stop crying hehe that is what I am telling all the dabblers about the 2X damage..stop crying and get used to it..or move on to another profession and hound them. 
TLaneAZ1234 wrote:
See mad dog you have NO clue how the commando works lol.
as you gain HW xp you also gain Combat XP to level up your Heavy support weapons tree
Here you go, i hate when people log on to my account and make posts with my screen name as well. Obviously that must be what happened to you since you did not say this. Are you going to respond to my punching analogy?
I wonder if you like to try and justify things that can not be justified, or if you are just trying to work on your debating skills. If it is the latter go back to the drawing board.
Kilcannon Vryce Artilleryman
Yups you are right here...lol
ok correction when you use HW you gain HW xp in the 3 skill trees (Acid, Flame and HSW) and combat XP for the FIELD TACTICS tree which allows you to use grenades based on your skill in the field tactics tree....yes I made a mistake and admit it...an oversight and a honest mistake as i somehow switch the 2 around...Heavy Support weapons skill allows the use ofand increaeses your bonuses in the HPBC, LBC and Acid cannon as well as the rocket launcher...
Well, opinions are great to have. However, 2x melee damage is still not the answer. Even if it is only to get rid of everyone trying to get a piece of the flame thrower pie. Something need to be done similar to the way they got most pistoleers from obtaining eye shot. If they made our profession more top heavy (make master commando more useful than just a title) we wouldnt have everyone with a flame thrower. They should move Flame single2 to Master as well as the accuracy/speed bonus's. This would make obtaining master a little harder, and make it where we are not crippled for PvE. I Chose Commando/smuggler a long time ago, because i liked the playing style. I did not choose that combo to be FORCED to group. In a game where i may only be online for an hour or so, i want to be able to run around and have fun. Not be limited to trying to find hunting partners. Every class (darn near) can solo to an extent. That is fine, sometimes you are going afk a lot doing laundry or whatever, that is not condusive to good grouping. In short just find another way around this, other than 2/2.5dmg. It really makes no sense. It will probably thin out our ranks a little, but i dont care if everyone is a commando, it is still a fun class to me, just frustrating at the moment. The melee damage applies to the acid rifle as well right? (havent played much since the patch i was to pissed getting killed by easy things while testing FT) Luckily as a smuggler i have FD to fall back on, but i think that is kind of an exploit. But working as intended according to devs. In any case i think the commando is what we both have a passion for, and to tell the truth i hate seeing FT's everywhere when most people do not recognize the acid rifle by sight, lol. I think the point is i will not care if everyone uses the flame thrower, i can still lob a proton grenade, hehe.
well in any case i am headed for home so i wont be posting anymore. This post sure has made work time fly though. In any case i hope it goes back to the way it was and they find a diferrent way around this issue. i hate trying to swap weapons and basically having to find a way around the extra damage.
regards,
Kilcannon
Well I think we both agree here...commando needs work still but the flame thrower is not the answer alone. We chose the class because of it's diversity or we would be just another of the dabblers with a line in the flame tree.
Yeah oppions are a dime a dozen, and mine is the 2X damage works for our favor, you is it does not. we can go on and on on that one..but we loose sight of the rest of the commando profession.
However one thing you and i will butt heads on is this...should the commando be able to solo with the flame thrower or HAR? We both know the HAR stinks and needs work...done with that subject..
My answer is no the flame thrower aloneshould not allow you to solo
yours is yes....
Should the commando be allowed to solo? Both of us say yes..however our answers are different.
time for bed for me.....
I guess I'm a dabbler by most standards-- I'm a Dancing Commando-- 0,0,4,0 Dancer and 4,0,4,3 Commando. I love grenades, I love FT, and I love Acid Rifle. My only combat skill is Commando, and I'd master it if I could, but I want to dance, too.
I don't think anyone, master or not, should be doing 14k+ to stormtroopers and AT-STs, regardless of profession. But I don't think that should be cut down to the max I've been hitting for -- around 4k.
We've been nerfed, and I think we have to get used to it. I just hope we get put back to at least half of what the nerf was.
1- Flamethrowers can now use SOME ranged specials. I used some of my marksman rifle specials on my flame last night and it works like a dreaam, but beware......the HAM costs are HUGE. I think I spammed 4 suppression shots.....my health dropped to 20%. But at 50m, that comes in handy.
2- use your launcher pistol.
3- There is more to commando than the flamethrower. I say this in the assumption that the devs will one day fix the commandos. The HAR should be changed to less damage....faster speed, and different specials. It is a rifle after all.
4- This ""nerf", which in retropsect makes me think the devs put in a long time ago but it gliched up and casued the 2.5x dmg for commandos AGAINST melee...remeber?
Dont get me wrong, I dont like this change. But I've gotten past the point of blatant anger (which there was alot of) and now I'm in my adapt mode. it is still possible to solo...but man, the risk is higher. I got incapped by 5 kreedles...I feel ashamed. LMAO
On the other hand...a master commando still has alot of penalties, slow, 8 sec delay, expensive weapons. How much more of a price needs to be paid? In the end I dont mind the mod for pvp. It should be reduced for pve. 1.5x is more fair.
Well I'll put in some of my thoughts here on this issue.
The commando is a powerful profession and in many ways should be (there is only one other class that has to invest more skill points to become a novice in their profession). A master commando with no other skills, beside the ones he needs to get his profession, should be able to beat (and fairly regularly) a master pitoleer, rifleman, carbineer, tera kasi, swordsman, fencer or pikeman who has only invested in his profession. A major point many people overlook is the number of skill points these classes have left over after they master the combat profession and what they can do with them. The commando can do less (and the Bounty Hunter is worse off then the commando) than the elite combat classes (pistoleer, ect). The elite combat classes can Master medic/doctor, medic/combat medic, Creature Handler, Squad leader, possibly more. Because of the extra flexibility the elite combat classes have over Commando/Bounty Hunter theyMUST be weaker (why play a commando or Bounty Hunter if a pistoleer is more powerful AND can has more extra skill points).
I keep hearing how much damage the commando does with his flamethrower vs everyone else. Let me put this to rest (I dont think I will but I'll try). The commando is the only class that gets NO knockdown, stun, blind, dizzy or any other effect besides a DOT and high damage (besides a few from Marksman). The only thing the commando gets is high damage and besides the horribly powerful DOT its not that high. Yes, we are more capable of one shoting a target but in pure damage over time (minus our DOT) we are actually worse in many cases. Example: My charcter had Flame 4 and a 1050 max damage 4.7 speed flamethrower, my brother had carbineer, carbine accuracy 1 and one other skill (not the speed one) and had a laser carbine (i cant remember the exact stats, it was very well made but only had a 12% speed slice). We were attacking a pirate outpost (structure), he did nearly twice the amount of damage to the structure as I did. He kept using fullauto1 while I was using flamesingle2. The reason why he did more damage is while I was waiting to reattack he got in4 or 5 more shots. Note, I had the max speed with my weapon and my brother had just over half the speed bonuses, he would have done more dmage if he had maxed carbineer. Now this is odd to me, I am using a better weapon, had (theoretically) a better skill but was doing less damage. The big problem people are having with the flamethrower is the high amount of damage that can be done in one shot (remember we have a huge delay after) and the extremly (probably too) powerful DOT.
Wolve44 says:
TLaneAZ1234 pls open your manual to Commando and read carefully...support class
Well, I opened the manual (the one I got with the game), turned to page 75 where it describes the Commando and read:
Commando: A hardened soldier trainedto use and craft heavy weapons.
Requirements: Master Marskman (Marksman), Unarmed Specialist (Brawler) and Engineering Specialst (artisan)
I dont see anywhere there where it says a support class. I read above, it only states that it is under the Hybrid Professions. It does state that they are HARDENED SOLDIERS, which implies to me that they would be very effective in combat (probably without the help of others). Since they also have to be unarmed specialists it also implies to me that they would be fairly capable of defending themselves in Hand to Hand. The description also states that we can craft our own heavy weapons...but I dont mind in the least bit that we cant (that seemed a little unrealistic to me and too self dependent).
The commando should be as capable as any other combat class of fighting things solo. With the 2x melee damage they are by far the least capable of soloing (riflemen almost give them a run for their that position but have nice ranged specials that are effective over 16meters). I agree with most people the commando class needs some MAJOR reworking, but a 2x melee damage when we have to be within 2 steps of melee for our specials is STUPID. Yeah I hear that we can switch to our Launcher pistol or just use grenades or heavy support weapons, I find that idea extremly stupid. The launcher pistol is there so we can level up Acid Rifle or Flamethrower not for anything else (why do you think we dont get any more specials or skill bonuses with it?). Grenades and heavy support weapons are suppose to be limited and not used in every combat or through out the combat (hench the limited charges and difficult to manufacture). The Acid Rifle and Flamethrower are meant to be our main weapons, the ones we rely on to deal the most damage and get us through most combats, as it is now they are our worst weapons.
Some of my thoughts on what could or should be done with the commando:
1.) Make flamethrower and acid rifle in the same skill tree and with similar properties. They both should use the same skills , beshort ranged, have a DOT (though a lot less powerful than the flamethrowers), and acid rifle needs to be reworked to make it more powerful (maybe a nice AP).
2.) Add a new skill branch - Heavy Energy weapons. Have the light reapeating blaster and the heavy repeating blaster (E-Web)in this skill tree. They should be medium to long range, the light repeater should be great damage (rifle?)andgreat speed (carbine?) and the heavy repeater should be high damage and medium speed but while fighting with it and a little while after you cannot move with it (you have to set it up and cant move around with it).
3.) Area effect on grenades and heavy support weapons need to be fixed so that they work. The class should probably get a few more defensive bonuses (its pretty sad when every other combat class has at least twice as much defensive bonuses or better and where a few non-combat clases like dancer get as many).
Well thats al I can think of now....
Wolve44 wrote:
Gairon..you can solo all you want..you have master marksman...you can wield a Laser rifle and use the specials...or the launcher pistol and use the specials, heck you can even use a FWG5...there is nothing set in stone saying you MUST use the flame thrower all the time, even solo.
you can solo as a commando...just leave the flame thrower at home
So you're telling me I should just become a master marksman? What's the point in investing all these points if I can't use the weapons of my trade. You going to tell a master BH he can't use his scatter pistol or all the specials he gains as he progresses his tree? That's BS and you know it.
Edge...
In general those that commandos call "dabblers" are 0040 commandos.
And the problem commandos have with 0040 dabblers is that, for many, an 0040 = master in terms of PvP.
The only problem I have with dabblers are the griefers and l33t d00ds.
Athein
Wolve44 wrote:
All the cries are about the flame thrower..there are no posts on fix the HAR
Wolve, I have just agreed to disagree with you on this point.
But this is by FAR the most ignorant thing you have ever said. Check the 7 page post at the top of the forum asking MasterSynn what our biggest issue is.
95% of it is to fix the HAR. The other 5% is to fix the grenade line.
So don't EVER say there has been no attempt to get the HAR fixed. If everything else were working, I might be inclined to agree with you.
And we are NOT a support class. No matter what you imagine the manual said.
EcadMistflier wrote:
I repeat once again Wolve you are and idiot. You have no ideas what you are talking about. Please take your crap and go back to the Rifleman sludge pit you come from.
I'll disagree with that Wolve is not an idiot. He does know what he is talking about, he has his opinion and is entitled to it. He is well informed, if sometimes his sources are disputable.