Commando Archive
Thread: Helios: Please Address a Commando Concern over the new Weapon Availability Change
Keldarin - SWG has always had a level system it's just been hidden. We decided to to expose the level system and base the balance more heavily on those levels to make combat easier to understand and learn and make the game more fun and tactical.
This isn't entirely true. While levels have always existed in SWG, the game didn't autamtically increase/decrease the damage a person gave/received based on the difference in levels between the player and the mob. But this is *exactly* what is happening in the CURB. Because of this, it is now *necessary* to remove certs for some weapons to allow people to "dual elite class" their toons properly. If this damage multiplier for level differences were removed, this would not be an issue.
Please consider removing this artificial multiplier. It is only a "crutch" to compensate for missing or inadequate AI for themobs (automatically "scaling" creatures up or down based on their level and yours) that has existed since the TRS-80/Apple II days (and probably earlier than that).
Look at this example: Both a Navy Seal and I are standing barefoot in a room. A chipmunk comes up an bites the SEAL on the foot and he receives only a barely noticable scratch. I get bitten on the foot by the same chipmunk and suddenly I'm 1-shot incapped (because in RL I have no combat classes - computer programmer is more of a crafter class I guess). It just doesn't make any sense....
Again, removing the multiplier would take care of the certs issue, but force the AI to be robust. Do the right thing, not the easy thing, and the players will appreciate it and support you.
So with that in mind, WHEN would you use a pistol in combat when it is so much less effective than a rifle (under your current template)? The answer is obvious, and there is only one: when you want to earn pistol xp, and in that capacity you are acting out that profession. I mean, without specials there really isn’t much point to using an inferior weapon unless it is to level.
Now commando weapons are a different story, but Helios has already assured us that Commando certs will be exclusive.
garvin wrote:I have a strong feeling that the "level" of all restricted Commando weapons will equal the box they are at if you went straight to that box...so basically, if you got to x2xx of Commando, you'd have likely the right lvl to use the particle beam cannon, but you'd also have the box, so others of the same level without the box, wouldn't be able to use the weapon...The devs will likely do this because, once a weapon is "box restricted", the lvl required for the weapon really goes out the window (why make it box restricted, but then require a higher lvl to use it...they could make all our weapons lvl 1 usable, but if they are all restricted to Commando boxes, then they would still be Commando only)...
djkav wrote:
Okies, I loved the CU.... but even now i'm concerned!
Commando weapons will be Skill box + combat level.
So if the particle beam cannon is x2xx and lvl 22. Does that mean if im x2xx and lvl 19 i cant use it?
If so then that will p** me off so much!
I have defended the CU so far... but even this is a step too far to defend!
Thx for the reasurance garv, but i'll need to see it to believe it ATM
garvin wrote:
ThetaDaAriga wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.
I hope there are no plans to tie the Massassi Knuckler to the Commando class. Iam as a TKA have since the start of SWG the absolutelystupid looking Vibro Knuckler as the only usable Weapon. And after the CU there is the Blasterfist which does nice damage but looks absolutely silly and the Razor Knuckler that only the rich and famous will get from the DWB. The only cool and easy obtainable knuckler will be the Massassi.
Personally that would be fine for me not to specially tie the Massassi Knucklers to Commando...but why would a TKA want to use them...while the VK's may not look as cool, or for that matter any other TK weapon, as the Massassi Knuckler (matter of opinion of course), the Massassi Knucklers are WEAKER then any TK weapon...you'd be trading looks for damage capability...a foolish trade...
Because Commando requires the Unarmed tree, any TK wanting to use them, would find, even at Novice TK, that they have better, higher damage choices then the Massassi Knuckler...
anyone want to explain then why the heck would we want to use them for commando TK??? if its weaker than any TK weapon why do we have it?????
Ordo-Malleus wrote:
garvin wrote:
ThetaDaAriga wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
Many weapons also have skillbox requirements tied to them in addition to level requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. You can't wield a T21, for instance unless you have master Rifleman in addition to having the proper combat level. I'm not going to explicitly list out all the weapons that have skill box requirements, because the list isn't final.
I hope there are no plans to tie the Massassi Knuckler to the Commando class. Iam as a TKA have since the start of SWG the absolutelystupid looking Vibro Knuckler as the only usable Weapon. And after the CU there is the Blasterfist which does nice damage but looks absolutely silly and the Razor Knuckler that only the rich and famous will get from the DWB. The only cool and easy obtainable knuckler will be the Massassi.
Personally that would be fine for me not to specially tie the Massassi Knucklers to Commando...but why would a TKA want to use them...while the VK's may not look as cool, or for that matter any other TK weapon, as the Massassi Knuckler (matter of opinion of course), the Massassi Knucklers are WEAKER then any TK weapon...you'd be trading looks for damage capability...a foolish trade...
Because Commando requires the Unarmed tree, any TK wanting to use them, would find, even at Novice TK, that they have better, higher damage choices then the Massassi Knuckler...
anyone want to explain then why the heck would we want to use them for commando TK??? if its weaker than any TK weapon why do we have it?????
Here is why I think we have it (if a bigfix is made)...
Currently Pre-CU, we have3 main non-consumable weapons that Novice Commandos can use to get Heavy Weapon XP...the FT, the HAR and the LP...Post-CU, the FT and the HAR are being moved to higher levels in our trees...this would just leave us with the LP to do all our Heavy Weapon grinding with...hence...enter the Massassi Knucklers...This gives us a weapon that can not only use the Unarmed tree, but also uses any other Melee specials someone might have picked up...The problem is, currently, the Massassi Knucklers are giving 1H xp (which most of us believe is a huge bug)...
Gaining TK to get the more powerfer VK's will not give a Commando Heavy Weapon XP....The Massassi Knucklers are put into the Novice Commando box because they are MEANT to be a novice Commando Weapon, which they would be if they gave Heavy Weapon XP...If someone Mastered TK (or any Melee Profession for that matter) before hitting Novice Commando, they'd likely want to use the Massassi Knucklers over all other weapons available to them as (if it get's the fix) would help them to grind Heavy Weapon XP at a much faster rate (by using their more powerful Melee specials WITH the Massassi Knucklers).
It's all about getting the Heavy Weapon XP...which is why the Knucklers need to be fixed (do you think I've dropped that hint enough for a red name to see? )
Basically, why should a novice commando need to pick up other combat skills to force up my CL to use the launcher pistol. I understand it's not just a CL cert, but also a skillbox cert, but my CL when getting that skillbox is too low to use it.
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Just another way to get you to use even more skill points (or should I call them level points now?) to use weapons that you should ALREADY be certed for
So if the particle beam cannon is x2xx and lvl 22. Does that mean if im x2xx and lvl 19 i cant use it?
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Yes, that's exactly what that means.
Darka-ce wrote:
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So if the particle beam cannon is x2xx and lvl 22. Does that mean if im x2xx and lvl 19 i cant use it?
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Yes, that's exactly what that means.