Commando Archive
Thread: commando specials
tometaophion
Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:56 pm
#66
Um, try to go to the little cave on yavin called the genosian base. lmao. You are such a liar, do you know how many dead masters there were, lol, you people have not been to the cave if you dont know what I am talking about.
nightwolf180
Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:04 pm
#67
For those of you who are curious about the behind the scenes mechanics of our specials. I went out and did some tests (I was bored). I found out that for now, it is far better to go with flamethrower then the HAR, just how much better is I believe greatly under estimated. Most masters know that the HAR is usually made with less damage and slower speed, but I found out that there are other factors behind it when the specials are used. We'll take a look at the flamethrower specials first.
FlameSingle1: Speed Modifier is 3, Damage modifier is 7.5
With a 4.0 speed 444-837 damage flamethrower, this special will effectivly make that weapon do 3330-6277 damage with a base speed of 12 seconds. To find out how fast you would shoot it, devide the base damage by 1.(your speed modifier for flamethrower) Example: I have this flamethrower and flame3 box, this makes my speed +35 with flamethrowers. 12/1.35=8.888888888888888... you get the idea.
So FlameSingle1 has Speed 3 and Damage 7.5 FlameCone1 has the same.
AcidSingle1 has very diffrent modifiers, very worse modifiers. Speed is 4 and Damage is 4.5, ALOT slower and ALOT less damaging then FlameSingle1. AcidCone1 is even worse... well its the same, but the animation is busted (nothing happens, target takes damage you take ham cost, no green buggers no nothing).
FlameSingle2 has a speed of 3 and a damage mod of 11.5!!! It is the single most damaging special in the game. Riflemen don't get that big of a mod (their highest is 7.5). Ofcourse resists stop flamethrowers from being the ultimate weapon, but against soft targets this could get painfull.
I don't have the figures for AcidSingle2 or either of the Cone2's yet. I plan on adding figures for the Marksman specials (since those are useable by flamethrowers) and accuracy chances with grenades and heavy weapons (I'm going to blow a buncha cash to throw 100 grenades and launch 100 RLs HPBCs LCs and ALs).
RazerWolf
Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:08 pm
#68
Sorry, but your maths is wrong. The correct speed /damage equation can be found here: http://killyourpc.org/swg/speedguide.html
nightwolf180
Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:43 pm
#69
If you say so, keep in mind I tested these damages along with standard damages (1.5xweapon damage = what I do without specials) last night and earlier today while I doubt any website has had the chance to update after the last patch, so I know I'm fairly accurate so far.
*EDIT: I'm sorry, I checked the site, but your still wrong. That site tells you how to calculate your DPS, DPS and Damage per shot are completely diffrent, DPS relates to how much damage you do per second, damage per shot relates to how much damage you do. Also you can't calculate your DPS with a flamespecial unless you know the mods for it (I.E: what I posted here). That site also relates to PISTOLS not flamethrowers.
You might want to take note that his Krayt FWG5's low min damage ruins his DPS, Minimum damage is a gooooooooooooood thing, as long as its high enough.
Message Edited by nightwolf180 on 04-04-2004 05:56 PM
thepunisher286
Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:18 pm
#70
For starters, it doesnt take a feild test to realise how bad the HAR is. We dont underestimate how good our flamethrower is when compared to the har. If we did, we wouldnt be asking the devs to get rid of it all together now would we?
It only took me a few shots on apiket and I putthe HARaway and equiped my flamethrower. Primarily because the har, its speed, is so much more worse. But my HAR which tops ait 988dmg, does 6k dmg on Acid single 2. So naturaly Im going to see it slower and ofcourse, weaker. What if we had them at 2 speed and 400-800 dmg? Im trying to find out for myself. Doing the math might look good on paper, but untill you run a few missions on Dathomir or dantooine, theres no judging. Would be nice to shoot these at a hefty pace, but they still would be worthless on specials without buffs.
Dont blow your cash on tests people here already conducted. We are well aware of our arsenal and thier serious flaws as well as how fundamentaly flawed our tree is and our entire setup.
A lot of us have been Mcommandos for a long time. I myself included. Ive used every commando weapon in pvp against just about every combat proffesion. Only time I havea good chance on landing shots with somethig other than the flamethrower is against a person with virtualy no defensive mods. ( Ask Evelas, he's fought me in pvp before in anchorhead )
Rockets, HPCB's , Lightning cannons and acid launchers work all well and dandy against creatures... like you said in another post, they arent ment for pvp so we should stock up on them and spend a boat load of money on rockets to kill rancors, spending more money to complete a mission than it pays.
We appreciate help, but did you even bother "reading" our serious posts? Or the top 10? We speak about how bad these things are and how we tested them etc etc. We are asking for them to "work" better, as they should. They lack in almost every aspect a weapon can have.
Time will tell for the har - Preferably, I'd love to see the HAR and Flame combined into one tree. Use one skill mod instead of 2. Ofcourse, the special dmg and speed would need to be equal, and har would need a dot that doesnt do wounds but perhaps some sort of effect. That leaves room for an assault rifle/pistol line.
RazerWolf
Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:19 am
#71
nightwolf180 wrote:If you say so, keep in mind I tested these damages along with standard damages (1.5xweapon damage = what I do without specials) last night and earlier today while I doubt any website has had the chance to update after the last patch, so I know I'm fairly accurate so far.*EDIT: I'm sorry, I checked the site, but your still wrong. That site tells you how to calculate your DPS, DPS and Damage per shot are completely diffrent, DPS relates to how much damage you do per second, damage per shot relates to how much damage you do. Also you can't calculate your DPS with a flamespecial unless you know the mods for it (I.E: what I posted here). That site also relates to PISTOLS not flamethrowers.You might want to take note that his Krayt FWG5's low min damage ruins his DPS, Minimum damage is a gooooooooooooood thing, as long as its high enough.Message Edited by nightwolf180 on 04-04-2004 05:56 PM
If you look around the site, it details all the speed and damage mods for all Pistol, Rifle, Carbine, Unarmed and Polearm specials. The speed equations are all the same for all the professions. I already did a thread on it about a week ago.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=53276
thepunisher286
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:33 pm
#72
I noticed that as well... i dont use that caclulator. I use a program someone made with the .net platform and it takes into account every variable in the game.
Its very detailed - you make characters, assign them stats like armor, defensese, skill mods, and weapons as well as changing weapon speed.
Problem is, no commando specials exists on it.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=57750&poll_id=0&warned=y
RazerWolf
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:37 pm
#73
nightwolf180 wrote:"If you look around the site, it details all the speed and damage mods for all Pistol, Rifle, Carbine, Unarmed and Polearm specials. The speed equations are all the same for all the professions. I already did a thread on it about a week ago."Again you aren't understanding what I posted here. Every special has its own modifiers, every single one. The modifiers are what make that special do more or less damage, and hit for faster or slower speed. The base modifier of these specials are what changes the damage range and speed of your weapon. If you look at that site you will see that he has the modifiers for the specials there aswell, he uses them in his calculations for DPS. I know I'll use that site, since you presented it, to calculate my DPS with my flamethrower. But the information I posted here is for OTHER people who want to do the same. If you want to figure out the highest possible damage you can do with any flamethrower, take its max damage, multiply it by 11.5, and there you have it.*EDIT: I also "looked around" that site and theres nothing about flamethrowers on it. Also his mods are flawed badly, he forgot to add the 1.5 modifier that is ALWAYS applied to weapons (in normal fire and with specials). And that 1.5 is missing in the specials calculations. His resulting DPS report is dropped quite a bit. I didn't notice it on the pistols page (I don't know the pistol mods very well) but his Rifles page, I know theres at least 1 rifle special with 6.5 or 7.5 damage modifier (counting the 1.5), the highest he has is 5. The intresting part is when you look up the DPS of any carbine, scattershot 1 and 2 have a DPS of 0.Message Edited by nightwolf180 on 04-05-2004 01:02 PM
I understand perfectly well. I know how every special has its own modifiers, as I said, I posted another thread about it. Go read it.
"Damage per second is for relative comparisons, and is shown prior to 1.5x output bonus, armor calculations, PvP reductions, etc." - http://killyourpc.org/swg/swg_dps.php I am a Rifleman, and I know for sure that the mods posted on that site are all correct. StrafeShot 2 DOES have a 7.5 damage mod if you count the 1.5 modifier to all attacks. I am also aware that there is nothing about Flamethrowers on that site, hence my prevous thread trying to find our speed and damage mods.
As a side note, I think your 11.5 is a bit high. I know that FlameSingle2 did have a 5x mod before the "flame nerf", and I believe that that was increased by either 40 or 50% to make up for DOT reduction. Thus the overall effect, including the 1.5x is a total increase of either 10.5 or 11.25x from the FT weapon dam to Combat Spam.
nightwolf180
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:56 pm
#74
"As a side note, I think your 11.5 is a bit high. I know that FlameSingle2 did have a 5x mod before the "flame nerf", and I believe that that was increased by either 40 or 50% to make up for DOT reduction. Thus the overall effect, including the 1.5x is a total increase of either 10.5 or 11.25x from the FT weapon dam to Combat Spam."
Actually I don't think its high enough, I fired maybe 100 times at various bases and marked down my highest and lowest damage, then I fiddled around with my weaponsdamage, various numbers (7.5-12.0) untill I came up with the closest possible match.
My highest damage was 9428 and my lowest was 5594, but I have since cought glimpses of 9700+ damages. I ruled out 12.0 because that brought my max up to 10000 which I suppose is still possible, the targets didn't last very long so there was little chance of getting the highest possible number. But everything below 11.5 missed and 11.5 with my flamethrower (444-837 speed 3.4) was 5106 9625. I'll have to do more testing but I think it really is at least close to 11.5 I'm trying to get as close to the number as possible since I don't see ANYWHERE where it is being posted.
You might note that 5.0 (old modifier) X 1.5 (Damage modifier) X 1.5 (50% increase in damage) = 11.25... So if I'm off then by your calculations I'm only off by .25 
But again that doesn't make sense as I've cought glimpses of damages ABOVE 9700 and my max is 837 X 11.5 = 9625
But again that doesn't make sense as I've cought glimpses of damages ABOVE 9700 and my max is 837 X 11.5 = 9625
thepunisher286
Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:57 pm
#75
850 x 11.25 = 9562.5 - We get that dmg on FS2.
Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-05-2004 01:57 PM
Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-05-2004 01:58 PM
RazerWolf
Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:18 pm
#76
I'm tempted to go up Commando on TC or somewhere so I can test things.
Ster
Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:31 pm
#77
Cut Nightwolf a little bit of a break. He is just trying to put some more information on the table.
nightwolf180
Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:18 pm
#78
thepunisher286 wrote:
850 x 11.25 = 9562.5 - We get that dmg on FS2.
Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-05-2004 01:57 PM
Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-05-2004 01:58 PM
And like I said 837 x 11.5 is 9625.5 which is the damage that I get, and I have seen 9700, though I think it was a mob so I'm not counting it till I see it on a lair.