CUEmu - Thread Posts

thepunisher286

Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:09 pm

I'm going to ask again...Please don't use this post as an Anti-BH, Anti-Smuggler or Anti-Commando thread...

It was meant as a post to give Dev final word on whether we were going to be cert'd on this new weapon as well as point out issues that will make it exploitable...A Knowledgable Commando is a Better Commando...that's all...

Please stop the flaming and get back to the talk mainly on issues with the new Detionation Module, why we feel we deserve to be cert'd for it, why we don't deserve to be cert'd for it, and suggestions on how to better balance this module...I feel comfortable talking about those issues here because it is a module we may one day have access to in our personal combat droids (if I have anything to say about it)...

So if you have any respect for me at all, please don't give into those that would flame me or our profession in this post...and by all means, don't flame back...

::edited::

Had a LOT to say after all this.

With the way the droids are, we are replacable by the droids alone.

PVPer #1: Shoot... theres a turret up ahead. Were going to need a commando to take care of it!

PVPer #2: Screw the commando, I bought a few droids today!

PVPer #1: Oh okay! Lets rock!

If thats not reason enough to be upset, then Id love to hear a better reason.

Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-24-2004 05:14 PM

garvin

Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:24 pm

#54

thepunisher286 wrote:

::edited::

Had a LOT to say after all this.

With the way the droids are, we are replacable by the droids alone.

PVPer #1: Shoot... theres a turret up ahead. Were going to need a commando to take care of it!

PVPer #2: Screw the commando, I bought a few droids today!

PVPer #1: Oh okay! Lets rock!

If thats not reason enough to be upset, then Id love to hear a better reason.

Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-24-2004 05:14 PM

All Excellent reasons to be upset...and by all means, we all have reason to be upset...

I just don't want others to take they upset feelings and use them to attack other professions...BH's and Smuggler's didn't ask to be given an exploitable new toy...and neither profession had anything to do with us not being added to the list...The Devs are the decission makers...we are just here to state our personal preferences and point out obvious mistakes...

The Detonation Droid Modules are not restricted properly...even if Commandos were on the list I'd say the same thing...and even after they get the proper restrictions I will still try and get us on the list...

My feelings have nothing to do with sour grapes or anything against BH's or Smuggler's...it has to do with running tests and the results they provide...What kind of Correspondent would I be if I saw something exploitable and said nothing?

Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

Daker-Naritus

Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:32 pm

#55

garvin wrote:

So if you have any respect for me at all, please don't give into those that would flame me or our profession in this post...and by all means, don't flame back...

Your wish is my command Garvin...I'm done.However, as I have said, I think our options are limited... We could:

(1) Try to get the damage type changed to heat/energy (remember the purpose of the droids is to give BH and smuggler a purpose in the adventure areas, where there are no turrets or blast-weak mobs)

(2) Try to get the droid blast to have no effect on turrets and at-sts (note: targeting aloneis not enough...the blast radius is 17m and having players anywhere around a base will still hit the turrets in the area)

-or-

(3) Let the droids be implemented, and then use them as a justification to try to get the damage output of our blast heavy weapons to be doubled, with cheaper resource requirements, more accuracy, and lower ham costs.

Although I favor #3, I am doubtful devs will ever go for it. Thedevs are clueless about commandos andthink we are already too powerful for some reason (despite the fact taht only one of our weapons works). Idoubt that they will ever double the damage on anything we have.

To be properly balanced, the droids are either going to have to (1) do non-blast damage, or (2) not effect turrets and AT-STs.

DayWalkerRori

Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:48 pm

#56

garvin wrote:

thepunisher286 wrote:

::edited::

Had a LOT to say after all this.

With the way the droids are, we are replacable by the droids alone.

PVPer #1: Shoot... theres a turret up ahead. Were going to need a commando to take care of it!

PVPer #2: Screw the commando, I bought a few droids today!

PVPer #1: Oh okay! Lets rock!

If thats not reason enough to be upset, then Id love to hear a better reason.

Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-24-2004 05:14 PM

All Excellent reasons to be upset...and by all means, we all have reason to be upset...

I just don't want others to take they upset feelings and use them to attack other professions...BH's and Smuggler's didn't ask to be given an exploitable new toy...and neither profession had anything to do with us not being added to the list...The Devs are the decission makers...we are just here to state our personal preferences and point out obvious mistakes...

The Detonation Droid Modules are not restricted properly...even if Commandos were on the list I'd say the same thing...and even after they get the proper restrictions I will still try and get us on the list...

My feelings have nothing to do with sour grapes or anything against BH's or Smuggler's...it has to do with running tests and the results they provide...What kind of Correspondent would I be if I saw something exploitable and said nothing?

Ok, Lets Discuss this.....Calling for something to be changed that (as of now) isnt a Commando Weaponbut, how ever is (as of now) a BH/Smuggler Weapon needs discussed (It is your forum but, your talking about changing our weapon..yes, we will post here as we see fit).......NE and All Changes will effect our 2 Classes not yours (as of now)

1 What is the main gripe....The fact that it does blast dmg or the fact of the dmg itself??

* If its the Overall Dmg..give me a reason it should be lowered...

* If its the type it cause...Give a logical reason it should be changed and to what and why...

2 I cant speak for Smugglers (They will have to awencer for there self) What makes youll think the least little bit that most BH even care about the GCW & Blowing up Turrets??

We hunt People not Turrets.....

3 What makes them (as you feel..as of now)Expoitable?? and why?

4 If you feel and the Devs agree (IfDmg type Changed)Wouldnt you agree that we (BH/Smugglers) should be making the choice of dmg and not Commandos?

5 Can you show me NE other Profession (Besides Commando) that feels the same way youll do in reguards of our (BH/Smuggler) new Driod?

Looks like a few good questions to get the ball rolling.....

Message Edited by DayWalkerRori on 04-24-2004 08:50 PM

DayWalkerRori

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:00 pm

#57

thepunisher286 wrote:

Want to hear something scary? Not long ago, when the flame dot came... I thought to my self "It realy cant get much worse... no way the devs could make us even less usefull."

Now here I am, sitting at my computer. Reading reports on the devs giving the TKA's a Heat Vibro ( although rare, that doesnt mean it wont be around. Look at the geno pistol, i dont care what anyone says, i see a lot of those things ) and now blast damage droids.

And Im still siting here thinking "Could it realy get much worse?"

Right now, I dont want to know if it can. I dont think I would stand for it. I think I would be a lot better off not paying to play this game at all...

PS. Day walker... its clear you have NO IDEA what commandos are upset about. Please, dont post untill you fully read this thread as its been stated a few times already.

Now, I say we should get certs for droids that make spices and allow us to take missions on jedis. that would be cool, oh and lets not care about how that would hinder the role of the smugglers and bounty hunters.. its our droids.. well change them as we see fit, even if the commando role doesnt have anything to do with the droids capabilities...

Yes, we NEED more productive people like you daywalker... god loves you.

.

Message Edited by thepunisher286 on 04-24-2004 05:53 PM

You trying to get something started again?

We was asked to talk about this and talk we will or we can flame till we all get ban from the forums....

I agreed that Commandos should have got the cert...Devs said no..Theres NOTHING we can about this..Its the Devs not us

However, When you start trying to change something that isnt yours (as of now)damn right we will step in and post when and where we see fit....

P.S God Loves you too..Im sure

Message Edited by DayWalkerRori on 04-24-2004 09:01 PM

garvin

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:20 pm

#58

DayWalkerRori wrote:

However, When you start trying to change something that isnt yours (as of now)damn right we will step in and post when and where we see fit....

If you saw a fire at your neighbors house would you call the fire department or sit back and let them take care of it...

If you saw a game effecting issue, even if it doesn't effect your profession directly in the eyes of others, would you report it...

I found various ways that the Detionation Droids can be exploited...should I have just sat on that info? If you have a problem with something in the game, you should feel safe to report it...

Garvin Lansdowne
Retired Commando Correspondent - Current Blue Glowie
Master Commando / TKM || Architect / Shipwright / Master Droidsmith
ShadowStyrkeGuild.com: A WoW Guild Website

DayWalkerRori

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:22 pm

#59

Im really sick of this..Its getting no where

I dont care no more.....Change it, Take it, Give them to someone elese, Stick'm up someones butt and Expoid it

I dont care about this Issue any more.....

thepunisher286

Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:46 pm

#60

DayWalkerRori wrote:

Im really sick of this..Its getting no where

I dont care no more.....Change it, Take it, Give them to someone elese, Stick'm up someones butt and Expoid it

I dont care about this Issue any more.....

Then I guess we are all happy. In the end, thats what counts.

Lately my observation is seeminlgy becoming more and more true, that not only is the DEVS the problem with this game, its also because of the players too.We have a lot of inconsiderate people playing this game. Not that we dont appreciate support, its just we dont appreciate it when our lose is flung in our faces because it basicly gives other people our main porpose in which we spend 169 skill points for.

We NEVER asked for suicide droids to be put into the game. That crap came out of no where and quite frankly, some thing that does more blast damage than our rocket launchers being given out to people who dont have any real use for it is ilogical as it just makes any feel for balance being taken away.

Not too long ago, when we had our crazy dot, things were half decent... but now TARFU. Whats to encourage the existance of the commando proffesion? .

Mafaza

Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:59 pm

#61

You go, Tanks!

Mafaza------------------------------------Oomfama
Master Bounty Hunter, chilastra----------------Brawler, Pikeman, Fencer, chilastra
"KD+Dizzy = fun!"-----------------------------------"Wacking with sticks"

DayWalkerRori

Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:03 am

#62

TechnoHic wrote:

BHs. Im sorry you feel this is a nerf cry, it was not intended to get that way. It really is only a way of delivering how our RLs and other HWs suck. The truth is, RLs are possibly the most dificult things to make in the game, and I know what houses and stuf require but its not the ammounts its the variety of crap that goes into them and requires several factory runs. This makes it expensive not that every commandos out buying em. Have you seen a commando use one that doesnt have a friend thats a WS?

Seriously, I dont care if anyone gets these. Does anyone really want a new consumable weapon here? Lets try to keep calm about this guys and try not to offend other communities over this and keep this as levy just to get our consumables we already have looked into.

Well, We was pulling & trying to help commandos over this and Numb Nuts up there starting Mouthing off and then Nerf Crys started when and only when Commandos didnt get in the Cert...Like BH/Smugglers had some controll over the Devs (God knows we wish we did)

Oh then this...AFTER the Fact the Devs said No to add youll to the Cert...Sounds like a Nerf Cry to me

"Basically you are giving these folks an over-powered weapon that will just anger 2 communities when it's NERF'd later or anger a lot more professions if it's not NERF'd...maybe you really need to rethink this module a bit more before releasing it"

Message Edited by DayWalkerRori on 04-24-2004 03:08 PM

Daker-Naritus

Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:11 am

#63

Tanks wrote:

It is interesting that you are calling for a nerf on this after devs told you you couldn't get it for Commando even before it goes live with selectively misleading information that you have culled from the DE forum. It seems like if you can not have it you don't want others to have it either .

You know, the more I have thought about this statement, the more it REALLY pisses me off.

This has NOTHING to do with commando trying to nerf BH. I personally have LONG said that BH should do more pvp damage than every other class because of the skill point investment. However, this has NOTHING to do with pvp...this has to do with blast damage and destroying AT-STs and turrets. That is commandos ONLY advantage, and you will not be stealing it.

First, as a part time DE, you are not going to win against me on the effectiveness of droid arguments.Those numbers I quotedareright, and have been extensively tested. I have known Jenden, the DE who did most of the testing I quoted, for a long timeand there is not a more reliable number person in the game. Nothing is taken out of context, the numbers speak for themselves...mouse droids are COMMONLY doing 6k-7k BLAST damage. No matter what context that is in, that is the truth and it is unacceptable.

Second, you sayour numbers are "misleading," but come up with NO numbers or testing to counteract those numbers and then skew what has already been saidto make your own misleading statements (ex: attributing the prices of expensive R3 droids to mouse droids, and thenattributingweak (26 effectiveness)mouse droid damage numbers to all mouse droids (which are easily experimentable to 40 effectiveness)).

If you want to come here and argue that your droids will be weak and won't displace commando, I encourage you to find a DE, buy 1538-40 effectiveness droids andtest them.Please note that if any of the damage numbers fall into the 6k-7k range or above, I expect an apology for being accused of fraud and misrepresentation.

Third, Bounty hunters already have every damage type in the game except blast. They can use every pistol except the DX2 and launcher, and every carbine except the elite (Note: I don't know much about the new guns in the adventure areas, but they don't change the outcome). BHs can also use all of these guns just as effectively as master pistoleers/carbineers.

Because of BH's WIDE arsenal of weapons, BHs already get to use every single damage type except blast, which has been generally reserved for commandos (because it is the only freaking advantage we have).

Commandos on the other hand get only heat, acid, and blast. We have a couple of weapons that do other damage types in grenades and launchers, but they are practically unusable because (1) almost all grenades are broken (as in the damage range overlaps with the accuracy range) and do only minimal damage, and (2) almost all launchers miss 1/2 the time and cost well over 1k-2k credits per shot. Additionally, the acid rifle is broken and most mobs that are heat resistant are also acid resistant.

So basically we get heat and blast, and you get everything but blast. The question becomes, why do you need blast damage (especially more blast damage than the blast experts can do) to be effective as a class?

Finally, where do you get off coming into OUR forum and insulting garvin for trying to preserve the purpose of the commando? He isn't being unreasonable, he is simply trying to preserve the ONLY advantage commandos have. He isn't trying to nerf you or attack you, he is simply trying to keep blast damage as a commando thing. If the exploding droids did heat or energy damage, he wouldn't say a thing. It is ONLY about the blast damage.

Let me ask you this...If garvin was proposing to TH that commando be allowed to use BH terminals and do player/Jedi "strike missions," wouldn't you be a little pissed off? If garvin was asking for commandos to get to use eyeshot and fire knockdown (ranged kd/dizzy) wouldn't you be a little pissed off?

Yes, you would. Now either get reasonable and come here a sense of reality and balance, or get the hell out of our house.

Fact is, blast damage is the ONLY advantage we have, and BH is about to get the ability (in addition to already getting every other ability in the game) to do more blast damage and cheaper blast damage than the class DESIGNED to do blast damage. That is wrong. You can work with us to find a compromise, or you can continue to be ridiculous and insulting (thereby causing us just to get mad and work even harder to get your blast damage nerfed).

If I might suggest a solution, it would be to have the droids do the higher of heat and energy damage instead of blast. However, no one comes into our house and insults garvin and spouts unfounded, unreasonable gibberish like you are spouting (let alone a corresponent who is supposed to be above that). Cut it out, or go away.

Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 04-24-2004 03:29 PM

TechnoHic

Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:17 am

#64

We all just neeed to look at this in perspective. Several commandos are going to be upset as blast damage seems to be viewed as one of the last things sacred to commandos as a unique damage type. I personally instead of feeling invaded in that sense, see it as more opportunistic to get commanos out there to more damage types. In this case, specifically for our HWs to get looked at and I truly beilieve garvin is trying to do just that and am sure he means no cry for nerf.

Others here on the forum are just lashing out from being upset and usually are quite reasonable people. As you probably see in your own forums, around patch time, things get a bit touchy when everyone sees they have been passed over for any fixes by the Devs. I only keep calm because I dropped commando and havent been in my other professions long enough really to get so upset.

Again lets all just calm down. This is no need to go to war.

CARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGECARNAGE

Elder Commando

Carnage' - Master Munitions Trader

Nobunoga Oda - Bounty Hunter >

Daker-Naritus

Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:21 am

#65

Tanks wrote:

This whole argument about who is more gimped is futile. We should concentrate on fixing the problems without trying to nerf others when they seem to get something we do not.

Dude....WE ARE NOT TRYING TO NERF YOU.....WE ARE TRYING TO PREVENT YOU FROM NERFING US.

If you think you have problems.....Great.....fix them. However, that solution should have NOTHING to do with blast damage.

Why is this so hard to understand? Blast damage= Commando. Blast damage NOT = BH.

Find another solution. I will work with you all you want, but if you keep accusing us of "trying to nerf you" (even though it isn't an ability you even have yet and the effect of the ability would be to nerf US) that is going out the window. It is just plain insulting.

I have proposed several solutions already. (ex: droids don't work against turrets and at-sts; droids do heat and energy damage instead of blast; etc.) Either stop insulting us and attacking us andstart proposing alternatives to helpus find a solution, or we will continue to work to try to protect blast damage (otherwise referred to as "nerfing" you).

Constructive = propose ideas and compromises, WITHOUT attacking us or our corresponent. Let's be constructive...

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Thread: Final Word on Detonation Droids for Publish 8 Commandos Not Added