Commando Archive
Thread: CU Commando Issues/Bugs (includes a explaination regarding our missing specials)
Barb-Wire
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:58 am
#53
Helios_SOE wrote:
RSQViper wrote:
Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.
One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-01-2005 06:10 AM
so basically this affects the rest of the weapons too and a E11 will still be a piece of junk as always regardless of the player's skill and once you ge the next cert time to delete it and only the top tier weapons will be worthwhile??? i thought that weapons were going to be a bit more useful so a DH17 would have different rates of fire and ranges compaired to a E11 but both would be compairable in power and tied to the skill of the player rather than the quality and placement of the cert??
very very disapointing to hear this.
RSQViper
Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:02 am
#54
Oh, yet another concern, Helio. (sorry, it's something else I noticed)
I noticed what you all are trying to do here. Each elite combat profession takes two trees to get to novice. Like Pistoleer is pistols IV and Ranged IV, Rifleman needs Rifles IV and Ranged IV and so on.
Well, here's my problem. As a Commando (and smuggler and bounty hunter for that matter) we need to spend even more SP due to the fact we need to buy another novice profession. Based on the SP requirements and cost in live now, that is an extra 15 SP that others do not have to spend. (not sure what novice costs now, if it has changed at all)
Looking at that, I don't see why our Tier III weapon should be equal to a Tier III of a "lesser" elite profession. It should be more powerful. Our master weapon should as a whole in comparison as well (be it faster, more powerful. basically do more damage in the same amount of time as say, a rifleman's master weapon. Not a whole lot, but noticeable). 15 SP is a lot and hybrids should reap some amount of benefit. Not sure what Novice costs now as I am not in-game, but I think this is a very valid point here for hybrid professions and should be addressed in some manner. Even if it means removing hybrids.
Thanks for listening!
Message Edited by RSQViper on 04-01-2005 10:07 AM
JohboBocal
Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:42 am
#55
Ordo-Malleus wrote:
ok lets look at CURB commando.
Beyond that, CURB = AWSOME
Yes look at me, lol.
Thank you, I am awesome.
Sorry, could not resist. My IGN on TC-5 is CURB. 
EEMAN
Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:54 am
#57
Helios_SOE wrote:
RSQViper wrote:Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-01-2005 06:10 AM
while i completey support this logic, would not a new name for the tree's have been in order then?
Ordo-Malleus
Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:54 am
#58
rexan wrote:
garvin wrote:
Regarding the status of our Commando specials...many of you may have noticed that we are missing our specials...this isn't an accident or a bug. While other professions are defined mainly by their abilities, we are defined by our weapons in the Post CU game...Our Profession is basically becoming a Power-Up profession...and we define ourselves by power-up any combat profession we dabble by boosting their specials. Rumor also is that our Dot may be built into one or more of our weapons which would mean that we might be able to turn any special we have into a Flame Special...My biggest concern is the loss of our Cone special, which is something, via testing, we can try and build a case to get back.
Message Edited by garvin on 03-31-2005 07:46 PM
I really hope this is not the case. One of the things that the CU is supposed to do is get rid of the templete stacking.
But now the Devs are going to completely re-design Commando to be an "Offense Stackers"?!?!?!
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, since if this is true, then EVERYONE is going to be forces to grab commando just to be effective in combat.
I hope I'm mis-understanding your definition of Power-UP profession.
actually you have it backwards, Commando will USE other proffessons to POWER themselves up to be better than they are naturally. Dont look at it as a STACKER per say but more of a utility. Im a commando and i want to beable to fight like this so i adapt and take on thier roll and my roll and therefor become better than them in the end.
DrkSensei
Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:57 am
#59
Let me try an analogy :
You have a rough diamond ( say pistoleer)
You cut it ( becoming Commando)
It glimmers and is worth twice as much
Thing is this analogy works for every class..even Squad Leader now. It s about choices. You can choose which type of cut of the diamond you want now. So you can have small arms expert commandos....kung fu matrix super commandos,commando mercenaries for hire specializing in dirty tricks etc etc etc.Not everyone will pick up commando. For example I was thinking about BH/Commando after seeing the new tress BH/Smuggler is awfully tempting.Every profession is now a power up profession..some just have cooler toys heheh
Message Edited by DrkSensei on 04-01-2005 10:57 AM
rexan
Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:57 am
#60
Saratoga wrote:
Can you tell us why commando has the unarmed skill requirement still? the whole profession is based on heavy ranged weapons.
Instead of sinking skill points into the brawler tree why dont you change it to the ranged tree? make it ranged support 4, pistol 4, and rifle or carbine 4. would make more sense.
Because you have to be strong to carry all these heavy weapons around. And your not going to get strong toting a pistol. You have to work out and build up your muscles to handle the recoil.
JohboBocal
Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:59 am
#61
One thing to not forget is that we are used to ONLY haveing the FL work for us. With all these new and working weapons, you wont NEED to use the FL in every situation. Use the FL when it is the best weapon for that situation, and use a diferent weapon that will better suit the situation.
We have knucklers, grenades, our consumables, launcher, etc.
rexan
Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:09 am
#62
Ordo-Malleus wrote:
rexan wrote:
garvin wrote:
Regarding the status of our Commando specials...many of you may have noticed that we are missing our specials...this isn't an accident or a bug. While other professions are defined mainly by their abilities, we are defined by our weapons in the Post CU game...Our Profession is basically becoming a Power-Up profession...and we define ourselves by power-up any combat profession we dabble by boosting their specials. Rumor also is that our Dot may be built into one or more of our weapons which would mean that we might be able to turn any special we have into a Flame Special...My biggest concern is the loss of our Cone special, which is something, via testing, we can try and build a case to get back.
Message Edited by garvin on 03-31-2005 07:46 PM
I really hope this is not the case. One of the things that the CU is supposed to do is get rid of the templete stacking.
But now the Devs are going to completely re-design Commando to be an "Offense Stackers"?!?!?!
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, since if this is true, then EVERYONE is going to be forces to grab commando just to be effective in combat.
I hope I'm mis-understanding your definition of Power-UP profession.
actually you have it backwards, Commando will USE other proffessons to POWER themselves up to be better than they are naturally. Dont look at it as a STACKER per say but more of a utility. Im a commando and i want to beable to fight like this so i adapt and take on thier roll and my roll and therefor become better than them in the end.
So if I understand, I'm a pistoleer. I can do fanshot with my pistol. Now I take commando, soI can pick up a heavy weapon, like a rocket launcher, and be doing fanshotwith rockets? I just see the 2 being a much more powerful combination than any single combat profession. So now we will have Rifleman Commandos, Pistoleer Comandos, Carbineer Commandos, Smuggler Commandos, BH Commandos. Because if the Commando Profession is able to enhance every one of the other ranged professions, people are going to be forced to get it to stay competitive in PvP.
garvin
Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:23 am
#63
Helios_SOE wrote:
RSQViper wrote:
Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.
One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-01-2005 06:10 AM
I totally agree with that reasoning and the FT placement under those circumstances (rather see it more powerful then moved down and made less powerful)...
Because of this, is it possible to rename our FT and HAR trees since both aren't really about the Flame Thrower and Heavy Acid Rifle anymore, but more about Commando skill boosts with ALL of our weapons...Maybe have our trees be:
[Exlposives] [Field Tactics] [Advanced Heavy Weapons] [Basic Heavy Weapons]
Something along those lines would make much more sense.
garvin
Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:26 am
#64
You'll also have the Massassi Knucklers for Novice Grinding. I see the strategy as getting Flame I first to get the RL...then use the RL to get up to Flame III so you get the FT...from there the rest of the grind should go smoothly...all you have to do is get enough XP to get Flame I....Remember, while it's not as powerful as it use to be, the RL is now non-consumable and is a Level1 Elite weapon (more powerful then novice weapons, but less powerful then the FT)...
Ordo-Malleus wrote:
I see a slight flaw here some one help me out a bit. ok lets look at CURB commando. ok novice = launcher pistol certification.... ONLY now can some one please explain how the heck am i to get heavy weapon experiance with the launcher pistol only??? Yes i know it gives heavy xp and pistol xp at the same time but post curb without testing it how do we know its the same??? uh corrispondents might wanna address this with the devs before we get to the next phase of testing and find out were screwed up a bit before this thing kicks off.
Beyond that, CURB = AWSOME...well poor word to use but that works for me. I just cant wait to pull out the new rocket launcher and actually blow things up with it. as long as it dont sound like a squeeky wheel lol!!!
garvin
Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:27 am
#65
That would only be a problem IF the FT is the only weapon we use post-CU...the FT will become a weapon that you will use when you want to do an AOE attack...otherwise you have a number of other Commando weapons now to rely on for non-AOE attacks. We need to move past the idea of the FT being our only weapon (a hard thing to imagine...lol)...
RSQViper wrote:
Oh, one more thing (ok two) that is a concern:
You say that the flamethrower is always on cone attack (AoE). Well, that can be really dangerous too since you can accidentally hit things you don't want to hit now and draw unwanted attention. That is a bit unnerving since the flame will probably remain the mainstay of the commando community.
Also, seeing as the flame thrower is an important weaon to commandos, and looking at the CU notes, it states that commando is a medium ranged damage specialist under secondary. You also state that the flamethrower has lost distance and we need to be closer. It was, what, 17m before? If we have to be closer, I think saying w are medium ranged damade specialists is a bi toff. Sounds like we have to be in just about melee range. Just a few steps out actually.
I hope that makes sense for you. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
Message Edited by RSQViper on 04-01-2005 09:37 AM
