Commando Archive
Thread: CU Commando Issues/Bugs (includes a explaination regarding our missing specials)
JoKen_Jash
Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:48 am
#40
Moge_Tira_Tru wrote:
I see your point Down is always easier than Up. Also Commando will probably be pretty slow firing making it key for Group play but now great for Solo play. I guess what Im getting at is since you are the only DOT in the game and your DOTs spread over all professions I would hate to have to get Commando just to keep up.
Is it still true that no DOT is a Health dot but rather a Secondary DOT? thought I read that somewhere. I know your DOTs no longer cuase wounds, which I for one am happy about.
I was playing with the Nades today and your Radius is -Huge-. I think the Nade speed is nice now that it is Faster. the slow nades on live I found to be to slow.
...btw. I played a Commando on Live for a long time. I dont want anyone thinking Im trying to rain on your parade here. Just trying to bring some Devils Advocate opinions here.
I see your points, and I think, ironically, that Field Tactics IV will actually be an IMPORTANT TREE for pvp and pve post CU--heh, who woulda thought?
But, seriously, I'd prefer to be overpowered, and now I'm seeing the big use of being a powerup profession--uberest weapons in the game, if you can afford the sp to get em good specials.
Speaking of which, I just came up with a VERY SICK template: Master Combat Medic/Field Tactics 4. Pick up Flamethrower3 for additional support...
Message Edited by JoKen_Jash on 04-01-2005 05:49 AM
Saratoga
Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:56 am
#41
Can you tell us why commando has the unarmed skill requirement still? the whole profession is based on heavy ranged weapons.
Instead of sinking skill points into the brawler tree why dont you change it to the ranged tree? make it ranged support 4, pistol 4, and rifle or carbine 4. would make more sense.
JoKen_Jash
Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:13 am
#42
Because we're a hybrid profession--we cost 15 skillpoints more than any elite profession. Dump that and we'll have no other claim to more power than a normal elite profession. Plus we get the massasi knuckler.
TatooinainWarrior
Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:25 am
#43
Great work done on commando.... just from reading the skill trees... for a long time us commandos hadit hard... but we as a community stuck it out.. garvin was always a great help... keeping us cool when we got fustrated and giving us just enough info on the goings on behind closed doors to give us hope. NOW finally is this the light? well when i get mu commando i'll tell you.... but i totally get how cross proff moves work now.. and maybe some might not like this.. but it suits us. We as commandos know a little bit of everything (i mean this fits us in rl... i know this just from my experiance on this forum, by far the best proff forum) our weapons are what make us tho... sure some will dabble in our proff... but not all can handle the mastership... but where they come for our weapons... we go to their proffs for speaicals... our weapons are gona have built in dots (well some anyway) you could call these our speicals... and if we combine them with the right combonation of speicals from other proffs.. we will have the advantage of being a master commando and ALL the certs it gives us (and no one forget the armor migration) and we can be the ultimate dabblers.. where everysingle skill we get we can get to better our commando, where others might have a hard time maxing out two proffs, we make one proff from all the other skills we can find. Also noone said we have to have tkm anymore 
more skills to use and built in defences (heavy weapon def mod) means we can be much more creative.
more skills to use and built in defences (heavy weapon def mod) means we can be much more creative.Ofc nothing is set in stone... but from my 6 hours or so play of TC-CU and what i've seen of commando skill tree.. and from what i've read... i'm pretty happy right now... ofc when they unlock the elite proffs... we will see for ourselves.
I don't want to go into it now.. but i would just like to point out... the CU is not all good.. there are some things in MY view are bad for the game... but this is beta and nothing is set in stone 
i say again 
i just hope the devs start to listen to us again and not let bugs and big concerns slip by... if not handled well... swg can lose alot of players 
i say again i just hope the devs start to listen to us again and not let bugs and big concerns slip by... if not handled well... swg can lose alot of players
RSQViper
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:06 am
#44
Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.
Helios_SOE
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:09 am
#45
RSQViper wrote:
Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.
One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-01-2005 06:10 AM
Bionic
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:24 am
#46
Helios_SOE wrote:
RSQViper wrote:Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-01-2005 06:10 AM
Thank you. I was a bit concerned that the CM master pistol was a higher DPS than the flamethrower. Skill point-wise and tier level-wise, though, it makes more sense. Out of curiousity, does the listed DPS reflect DOT's as well? That would be good to file away.
And am I correct to understand Commando will not have any active specials added? My current prospective combat template is Master Commando, Pistol 0/0/0/3 and Smuggler 0/0/4/0. Will all special abilities be transferrable to Commando weapons? One can only hope to be using last ditch with a rocket launcher as one's default attack.
Ordo-Malleus
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:27 am
#47
I see a slight flaw here some one help me out a bit. ok lets look at CURB commando. ok novice = launcher pistol certification.... ONLY now can some one please explain how the heck am i to get heavy weapon experiance with the launcher pistol only??? Yes i know it gives heavy xp and pistol xp at the same time but post curb without testing it how do we know its the same??? uh corrispondents might wanna address this with the devs before we get to the next phase of testing and find out were screwed up a bit before this thing kicks off.
Beyond that, CURB = AWSOME...well poor word to use but that works for me. I just cant wait to pull out the new rocket launcher and actually blow things up with it. as long as it dont sound like a squeeky wheel lol!!!
RSQViper
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:28 am
#48
Helios_SOE wrote:
RSQViper wrote:
Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.
One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).
Well, that is understandable. Thanks for clearing that up, Helios. But, it still is weird. Maybe rename the flame tree to something else? Or maybe even (if you haven't already) put a lighter, somewhat fastflame weapon in the game that does comparable damage to a tier 1 weapon.
OOOOH! And the lighter one could be dual weilded at master! Ok, I am getting out of hand. But wouldn't THAT be freakin' cool?!?
You know you want it. 
RSQViper
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:35 am
#49
Oh, one more thing (ok two) that is a concern:
You say that the flamethrower is always on cone attack (AoE). Well, that can be really dangerous too since you can accidentally hit things you don't want to hit now and draw unwanted attention. That is a bit unnerving since the flame will probably remain the mainstay of the commando community.
Also, seeing as the flame thrower is an important weaon to commandos, and looking at the CU notes, it states that commando is a medium ranged damage specialist under secondary. You also state that the flamethrower has lost distance and we need to be closer. It was, what, 17m before? If we have to be closer, I think saying w are medium ranged damade specialists is a bi toff. Sounds like we have to be in just about melee range. Just a few steps out actually.
I hope that makes sense for you. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
Message Edited by RSQViper on 04-01-2005 09:37 AM
mindspat
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:37 am
#50
Maybe I'm missing something here. From what I recall if you attempt to use a wepons without having the certification for it the weapons is effectively uselss due to it's dmg being GREATLY reduced [wasn't it like -99.9% with no cert?]. The problem I'm having is understanding how a "teir3" weapon for an elite profession will be granted as the only cert to gain exp within that tier coloumn.
There's also a HUGE potential problem with locking out weapons stats based solely on a tier=dmg type of concept. Later in the games development with the CU there WILL be a need and desire to inroduce limeted or special weapons that proved more kick at a lower tier level. If this is an idea that has not been toyed with I would be extremely dissapointed. Players play this game for that "kiss". Being granted the ability to have a slightyly extra edge based on weapon dmg has ALWAYS been a huge attraction to ANY game regardless if it's a rpg, action game or MMORPG.
Classifying weapon dmg ratings based on the tier level is not going to be as productive as thought. The tier system will only be successful for a quick fix in the initial development of balancing combat. The desire to advance in a skill should be based on the benefit of abilitites within those new skills and not a lone certification.
Would have been nice to see weapon specialization implemented within the "upgrade" of the combat system.
I solid suggestion would be to remove the forced link with Tier=weaponRating and slightly lower the certs by a box or two. Make up the intended capabiilties by including skill mods at these higher tiers that would benefit those specific weapons. This would also create a passive form of weapon specializatoin.
Another issue relates to the intial claim of seeing there were no single weapon that would be better although with this teir system in place it does more harm then good and only seems to enforce a OneWeapon type of game play.
I can only hope this Tier=WeaponRating was not coded into the core of ALL combat related occurences.
Good luck.
Message Edited by mindspat on 04-01-2005 06:43 AM
Bionic
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:41 am
#51
RSQViper wrote:Oh, one more thing (ok two) that is a concern:You say that the flamethrower is always on cone attack (AoE). Well, that can be really dangerous too since you can accidentally hit things you don't want to hit now and draw unwanted attention. That is a bit unnerving since the flame will probably remain the mainstay of the commando community.Also, seeing as the flame thrower is an important weaon to commandos, and looking at the CU notes, it states that commando is a medium ranged damage specialist under secondary. You also state that the flamethrower has lost distance and we need to be closer. It was, what, 17m before? If we have to be closer, I think saying w are medium ranged damade specialists is a bi toff. Sounds like we have to be in just about melee range. Just a few steps out actually.I hope that makes sense for you. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet.Message Edited by RSQViper on 04-01-2005 09:37 AM
Yeah, flamethrowers will not be feasible on the Vette anymore if the DOT is not switchable. Maybe turning it on could be similar to the different damage types of the other weapons? You know, the armor modifying thingie. Going hunting butterflies=less concentrated firespray, but with the cone on. Going on the vette=switch to concentrated fire, working like flamesingle of the past.
I'm hoping that the range change just means that our MAXIMUM range will be changed, not the range of specials.
Ordo-Malleus
Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:50 am
#52
Bionic wrote:
RSQViper wrote:
Oh, one more thing (ok two) that is a concern:
You say that the flamethrower is always on cone attack (AoE). Well, that can be really dangerous too since you can accidentally hit things you don't want to hit now and draw unwanted attention. That is a bit unnerving since the flame will probably remain the mainstay of the commando community.
Also, seeing as the flame thrower is an important weaon to commandos, and looking at the CU notes, it states that commando is a medium ranged damage specialist under secondary. You also state that the flamethrower has lost distance and we need to be closer. It was, what, 17m before? If we have to be closer, I think saying w are medium ranged damade specialists is a bi toff. Sounds like we have to be in just about melee range. Just a few steps out actually.
I hope that makes sense for you. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
Message Edited by RSQViper on 04-01-2005 09:37 AM
Yeah, flamethrowers will not be feasible on the Vette anymore if the DOT is not switchable. Maybe turning it on could be similar to the different damage types of the other weapons? You know, the armor modifying thingie. Going hunting butterflies=less concentrated firespray, but with the cone on. Going on the vette=switch to concentrated fire, working like flamesingle of the past.
I'm hoping that the range change just means that our MAXIMUM range will be changed, not the range of specials.
Unless its just like flame single 1 and when you combo it with say scatter shot from carbineer it does the AoE flame like flame cone 1 etc...??? wont know till we get to test it