Commando Archive
Thread: CU Commando Issues/Bugs (includes a explaination regarding our missing specials)
rexan wrote:
garvin wrote:
Regarding the status of our Commando specials...many of you may have noticed that we are missing our specials...this isn't an accident or a bug. While other professions are defined mainly by their abilities, we are defined by our weapons in the Post CU game...Our Profession is basically becoming a Power-Up profession...and we define ourselves by power-up any combat profession we dabble by boosting their specials. Rumor also is that our Dot may be built into one or more of our weapons which would mean that we might be able to turn any special we have into a Flame Special...My biggest concern is the loss of our Cone special, which is something, via testing, we can try and build a case to get back.
Message Edited by garvin on 03-31-2005 07:46 PM
I really hope this is not the case. One of the things that the CU is supposed to do is get rid of the templete stacking.
NO...the CU is suppose to ENCOURAGE more strategic template building...it's removing cookie cutter template stacking by making template building more strategic. The idea is that you can "stack" in multiple different directions and for multiple reasons (no longer just for defenses, but now for offense, armor, abilities, and more).
But now the Devs are going to completely re-design Commando to be an "Offense Stackers"?!?!?!
I just worry that if this is the case, EVERYONE will be forced toget commando just to be effective in combat.
All offense vs. those who go All Defense vs. those who find a Happy Medium...there will be 3 types of effective routes for combat...the question is, which will be the best route? How great is having high damage, if your opponent has high enough defense to take your pounding? By going Commando, they give up going the route of protecting themselves from OTHER commandos for example.
I hope I'm mis-understanding your definition of a Power-UP profession.
There will be multiple "Power-Up" professions...we power-up Offense...other professions power-up Defense...and even other's power-up Control...it's all about which route you strategically want to take your template build.
You make it sound like a Rifleman using Heavy weapons will be AS FAST as they were and as accurate as they were when using non-Heavy Weapons...to boost their power they will have to make a trade-off...It's like making a Deal with the Devil...you wan't more power, what are you going to give up? All weapons will have their pluses and minuses, which will be mainly seen in their speed, accuracy, and most importantly, ideal range...Rifleman/Pistoleer/Carbineer/Etc. weapons will have times that they are much more useful then Heavy Weapons...So folks WILL NOT need to go Commando to stay competitive even in PvP...
rexan wrote:
Ordo-Malleus wrote:
rexan wrote:
garvin wrote:
Regarding the status of our Commando specials...many of you may have noticed that we are missing our specials...this isn't an accident or a bug. While other professions are defined mainly by their abilities, we are defined by our weapons in the Post CU game...Our Profession is basically becoming a Power-Up profession...and we define ourselves by power-up any combat profession we dabble by boosting their specials. Rumor also is that our Dot may be built into one or more of our weapons which would mean that we might be able to turn any special we have into a Flame Special...My biggest concern is the loss of our Cone special, which is something, via testing, we can try and build a case to get back.
Message Edited by garvin on 03-31-2005 07:46 PM
I really hope this is not the case. One of the things that the CU is supposed to do is get rid of the templete stacking.
But now the Devs are going to completely re-design Commando to be an "Offense Stackers"?!?!?!
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, since if this is true, then EVERYONE is going to be forces to grab commando just to be effective in combat.
I hope I'm mis-understanding your definition of Power-UP profession.
actually you have it backwards, Commando will USE other proffessons to POWER themselves up to be better than they are naturally. Dont look at it as a STACKER per say but more of a utility. Im a commando and i want to beable to fight like this so i adapt and take on thier roll and my roll and therefor become better than them in the end.
So if I understand, I'm a pistoleer. I can do fanshot with my pistol. Now I take commando, soI can pick up a heavy weapon, like a rocket launcher, and be doing fanshotwith rockets? I just see the 2 being a much more powerful combination than any single combat profession. So now we will have Rifleman Commandos, Pistoleer Comandos, Carbineer Commandos, Smuggler Commandos, BH Commandos. Because if the Commando Profession is able to enhance every one of the other ranged professions, people are going to be forced to get it to stay competitive in PvP.
Post CU, we don't get the Cert for the Flamer until Flame 3.
Effectively, there is no change here. While I'm a little surprised, I'll take the "more powerful" flamer that Helios is offering by it being a Tier 3 Cert.
Latenighter wrote:
Currently (pre-CU) we don't use the Flamethrower until we get to Flame 3, since it's not accurate. We use the Launcher Pistol to get there.
Post CU, we don't get the Cert for the Flamer until Flame 3.
Effectively, there is no change here. While I'm a little surprised, I'll take the "more powerful" flamer that Helios is offering by it being a Tier 3 Cert.
???
Who is "We"? Personally, I used the flame thrower from novice on up. Accurate or not it was always far more powerful than the, screen-shaking, game-lagging, Launcher Pistol. Although the LP is always fun because of all the noise it makes. Hehe.
Noobs always ask me "What is THAT THING!!?!?"
"A Launcher Pistol."
"Who gets to use that?"
"Commandos"
"I wanna be a Commando!!!"
RSQViper wrote:
Who is "We"? Personally, I used the flame thrower from novice on up. Accurate or not it was always far more powerful than the, screen- shaking, game-lagging, Launcher Pistol. Although the LP is always fun because of all the noise it makes. Hehe.Noobs always ask me "What is THAT THING!!?!?"
"A Launcher Pistol."
"Who gets to use that?"
"Commandos"
"I wanna be a Commando!!!"
"We" are those who followed the Commando FAQ on how to level up efficiently. To me, getting a weapon to hit with lower power is more effective than a very powerful miss. Nonetheless, no overgeneralizations intended by the use of "we."
Alurah wrote:
Okay I logged on test center and freaked when I saw there were no specials for Commando. Right after deciding I was going to be a smuggler/Commando. Then I see that it wasn't a bug and we are supposed to rely on other professions like bh to do specials and such for good damage... well hello.. anyone think of someone being a commando and a different profession.
Not quite true...We get specials via our Marksman pre-req that will give us something to channel through our FT, which in turn will convert the special into an AOE Flame special with a DoT.
Come on guys let these things be able to stand on their own.
That is TOTALLY anti-CU...no profession should stand on it's own...it's justa new way of thinking that we are also going to get use to.
I can't see myself being able to last ditch every however long it takes to do damage. And aoe is nice for the flamethrower, but what about situations where aoe is a bad thing?
How about trying one of our many OTHER non-consumable weapons in those situations...the problem is that we've gotten so use to relying 99% of the time on our FT that many of us can't even consider using our OTHER weapons.
To me this is a serious flaw to the profession and I hope they fix it right quick. I have really enjoyed being a commando to this point. I also hope they don't make it impossible to solo play in the game. Many of us have friends and guild where they are just a bunch of crafters. I really do not enjoy grouping with people I don't know as .. well those groups tend to do poorly from those you are used to playing with on a regular basis. Lets also add that those weapons and armor and food will cost quite a bit.. how are we gonna pay for it if we have to split up 10k of mission money 20 or more ways just to do Pikets? I am hoping you guys at SWG have thought of that. I haven't tested much, but so far it is a difficult task to get exp from a kill when competing with other novices. You need to fix the way exp is gained from a kill as well. I shoot it first it should be mine.. not the other guy not in my group that shoots it for more damage than me cause he has a better weapon or is a tad higher on the skill tree. No one should have to fight over mobs.
The problem with "he who shoots first gets the kill" is, what stops a group from running into a pack of Krayts, per say, aggro'ing them all, then picking them off at their leisure while everyone else can't attack because they shot it first...Someone could hit an area and make it so anyone else who comes along can't get XP or loot...it's the reverse of kill stealing...kill hogging...
Moge_Tira_Tru wrote:
Im sorry to put a downer here. but it looks like this Dev, becuase he plays a Commando, has made you guys...well...to good. I -really- hate to say this but I think everyone will be a commando now. With your DOTs and Nades. It seems like you guys are going to be crazy powerful.
I hope this Dev has not allowed his own playstyle to hamper the balance of the game.
Is this waht I think it is???
Someone whining and asking for a NERF ALREADY!!!!!!
Helios_SOE wrote:
RSQViper wrote:Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-01-2005 06:10 AM
I understand why you are making the higher tier weapons more powerful, I don't think it is a good idea though. Your just promoting everyone using the same couple weapons from the higher level boxes. It kind of makes a waste of all the other weapons.
The weapons need to be differentiated based on something other than DPS, which is more difficult now that the range modifiers and armor piercing are gone. Could we maybe make a set of special moves that are tied to a specific weapon and each weapon gets one or two from the pool? (UO did something like this).
Since making a weapon higher DPS is the only real difference right now everyones going to end up using the same weapon (boring).
Val_Hunter wrote:
Helios_SOE wrote:
RSQViper wrote:
Nice work on the commando answers, Helio. I am a bit confused as to why flamethrower is at Flame III though. I mean... the name of the tree is flame so it makes sense to me that the flamethrower would come at flame I or Novice.
One of the big reasons is that a weapon's power is now specifically determined at what level in the skill trees it is given out. Every weapon in a tier (one horizontal line across the skill tree) has comparable raw DPS in relation to each other. We felt at the time the Flame Thrower needed a little more kick to it, so it had to be moved up the tree some. Any of these certification placements are not final though and could change during testing (much like anything else, really).
Message Edited by Helios_SOE on 04-01-2005 06:10 AM
I understand why you are making the higher tier weapons more powerful, I don't think it is a good idea though. Your just promoting everyone using the same couple weapons from the higher level boxes. It kind of makes a waste of all the other weapons.
The weapons need to be differentiated based on something other than DPS, which is more difficult now that the range modifiers and armor piercing are gone. Could we maybe make a set of special moves that are tied to a specific weapon and each weapon gets one or two from the pool? (UO did something like this).
Since making a weapon higher DPS is the only real difference right now everyones going to end up using the same weapon (boring).
That's only if they all have the same damage type, range and speed...sometimes you'll want to use the higher damaging slow weapons to try and hit them hard in the beginning...sometimes you'll want to use faster less damaging weapons for combat that will take longer...and then there will be times you'll want to fight face to face using our new Melee weapon...Mix in the fact that our Grenades are FAR FAR FAR more useful now and all of our Consumable Launcher weapons are non longer consumable, and we have tons of more routes to travel...
How is that boring?
DragonSnack wrote:
Moge_Tira_Tru wrote:
Im sorry to put a downer here. but it looks like this Dev, becuase he plays a Commando, has made you guys...well...to good. I -really- hate to say this but I think everyone will be a commando now. With your DOTs and Nades. It seems like you guys are going to be crazy powerful.
I hope this Dev has not allowed his own playstyle to hamper the balance of the game.Is this waht I think it is???
Someone whining and asking for a NERF ALREADY!!!!!!
I would hope, maybe I am wrong here, but I would hope that you would be able to see beyond a Nerf Call and see my post(s) for what they are, constructive questioning. This is beta, if questions don't get asked now then when can they?
Not everyone who questions a certain profession is calling for a nerf sometimes - just sometimes - they are just asking a question.