Commando Archive
Thread: Commando Update From Beta TH Apporved
also of note.. all the chinese credit farmers of bria just got a woody when they saw the damage to lair/structures specials.
expect to see 8 computer-generated namedcommando players killing nests in1 shot and moving on to the next.
But...you will do crappy damage verse anything else (I was getting between 500-1000 damage if I remember correctly). Although, that could be a problem...it *might* self-balance. It'll definately be something we'll keep an eye on though.
Just a sidenote on the "buildings".
These have existed since Beta, and were part of the planned GCW, mission bases and buildings and whatnot.
Back then it was meant that bases were something you built out of modules, with wall modules, tower modules, house modules, etc. Late in Beta, they ran out of time, and it was all scrapped.
They also scrapped the extensive "mission engine" that instead of a cube/flag/lair to shoot up, missions spawned with bases, houses, walls, compounds and such.
If I'm not mistaken, these 2 were to be "joined" as in these mission "bases" were to be destroyed by destruction of the facility rather than a lil box/flag/lair.
Sometimes, on Talus(Live) you can see the remains of these bases and mission facilities, that now spawn as "rogue corsec" wild "bases" that has a few bandits protecting them, with targettable gate houses, powerplants and more. but you cannot shoot them.
So what does this mean? Knowing the SOE track record, it probably means zip, as they have a track record of planning out things, start to build it and then scrap it for never to look back, because they found a simpler, dumbed down method thats easier for them to give us, instead of something that would be huge when it comes to "game worth". I still remember assaulting a mission base in beta, me and 2 other imperial compadres, and we ended up fighting our way down into what is now the underground "bunker" type of player base. Down at the bottom, we found a high ranked officer NPC, that were tuff, like a real boss mob, and not these double chevron "damage modifier ultra high regen" kinda mob. Took alot of effort to do those missions back then, and it was a boatload of fun. A few days later, they removed those(They were the standard high level faction missions) and gave us the "a few NPC's around a lair" type of missions.
If the mission said "Destroy the X-wings", the mission was to go find a small X-Wing base, with an X-Wing there, and destroy whatever was there to make it blow...
So, what does all this mean? Zilch, nuffen, notn, nada. Because they don't do things that take time. they don't focus on making things like missions be "real missions" that you really go to assault a base or a building where a prisoner is held. They focus on dumbed down, easy to implement, shoot a few and done deal kinda things.
Wolfmann31 wrote:
Just a sidenote on the "buildings".
These have existed since Beta, and were part of the planned GCW, mission bases and buildings and whatnot.
Back then it was meant that bases were something you built out of modules, with wall modules, tower modules, house modules, etc. Late in Beta, they ran out of time, and it was all scrapped.
They also scrapped the extensive "mission engine" that instead of a cube/flag/lair to shoot up, missions spawned with bases, houses, walls, compounds and such.
If I'm not mistaken, these 2 were to be "joined" as in these mission "bases" were to be destroyed by destruction of the facility rather than a lil box/flag/lair.
Sometimes, on Talus(Live) you can see the remains of these bases and mission facilities, that now spawn as "rogue corsec" wild "bases" that has a few bandits protecting them, with targettable gate houses, powerplants and more. but you cannot shoot them.
So what does this mean? Knowing the SOE track record, it probably means zip, as they have a track record of planning out things, start to build it and then scrap it for never to look back, because they found a simpler, dumbed down method thats easier for them to give us, instead of something that would be huge when it comes to "game worth". I still remember assaulting a mission base in beta, me and 2 other imperial compadres, and we ended up fighting our way down into what is now the underground "bunker" type of player base. Down at the bottom, we found a high ranked officer NPC, that were tuff, like a real boss mob, and not these double chevron "damage modifier ultra high regen" kinda mob. Took alot of effort to do those missions back then, and it was a boatload of fun. A few days later, they removed those(They were the standard high level faction missions) and gave us the "a few NPC's around a lair" type of missions.
If the mission said "Destroy the X-wings", the mission was to go find a small X-Wing base, with an X-Wing there, and destroy whatever was there to make it blow...
So, what does all this mean? Zilch, nuffen, notn, nada. Because they don't do things that take time. they don't focus on making things like missions be "real missions" that you really go to assault a base or a building where a prisoner is held. They focus on dumbed down, easy to implement, shoot a few and done deal kinda things.
Wolfmann31 wrote:
Ooooh Psycho! Are you defending the devs?...Wonder if the sun will rise tomorrow...
but you say they "lay the ground works".
they put the ground works down in 2003, for a much much more immersive and well built game, but scrapped it, so they could play with other things.
For instance, the creature AI you say they are upgrading, was downgraded in 2003 beta, and then some more after launch. they did not need double chevron, added damage and regen like superman to be good AI and fighters back then.
We had 1 EWOK, that trashed over 40 combatants in the matter of minutes, because he used specials, was smarter and had defenses, so that you really had to work a squad tactic to take him out. 2 full teams failed that...(*cough* the bleeding you got from being hit hard, also helped a wee bit..they removed that too...)
We had mobs, that acted like their nature. A Razor Cat on Corellia(I think) Once tracked my sorry behind for over 2 km, always staying about 100m away, trying to sneak up on me when I looked away(my character), and stopping, hiding in the grass or playing "oh I'm sleepy, I'll lie down now, at least as long as you watch me" game. 2 km he tracked me, and finally as I was fighting a Durni, he jumped and charged me. I barely escaped with my life, thanks to a stim, burstrun and another durni that attacked the cat. That was AI.
The foundation was there, but they scrapped it, so we got these "we got high ham, and stand around the lair doing nothing" mobs instead. Now, they instead of using the AI that they actually boasted alot about before launch, they are rewriting the dumbed down AI code. (read "reinventing the wheel")
Laying the foundation, making the ground work. It was all there, but they scrapped it and forgot about it, in their chase to dumb everything down, and make it simple, because simple sells, simple makes easy work, because simple takes no effort.
The difference between this game today and late beta is astonishing, and if you ask me, if I wanted to play the beta with all the systems they scrapped going, and drop everything they added since beta, I would have dropped this current game in a heartbeat to jump back into beta.
I'm sorry I still hate the old combat system.
1- Combat professions had too much in common with each other, now they are more unique (Though commando has many many woes still).
Message Edited by Nakahs on 10-11-2005 01:09 AM
First Mandalorian on Infinity Message Edited by Nakahs on 10-10-2005 11:36 PM
Heh read the thread. ANd just went wow.
As for the new weapons. If SOE follows their current track record. They will be 'loot' only. If that is the case both as a commando and as a weaponsmith I shall not be pleased. But rumor has it the new expansion will have more WS schems. But then the wookiee expansion made similar claims. And all WS got was some crappy CL40 or so crystal knife. That pure crafters cant get anyway. At least not if theyd ont hire a body guard or two to kill everything on the way there to the NPC. And there's likely some quest or something from that same NPC too (I still havent tried it. Since CL1 vs CL30+ doesnt go over well)
And AS got jack. Probably will get jack from the new expansion too. But then I've come to expect that. From the commando perspective I'm not happy about looted weapons like the proton rifle. Because of their innately high SAC. I mean the Proton is a nice gun. But god it can really blow to use at times due to the massive SAC cost. So when I use it I tend to make heavy use of ranged shot. And it's ammazing how much of a difference that 19 poitns over the 100 cap it makes too. (I last about 3x longer with my 100 SAC PFT than I do my 119 SAC proton). It would also be nice to see the PFT and the like PuPable.
And if people claim it's overpowered. Then I suggest they take a look at the BH rifle being talked about in the BH forums. 82 SAC and over 1400 damage base with 65m Range. Umm like yeah....
Personally I'm skeptical about the damage boost to grenades. It's definately needed. But I wonder just how big a boost it really is. That dots are getting a boost. I'm very glad to see. (Currently I'ts probably technically possible to craft a glop with 100% dot. So with this update it probably will be easy with high end materials at least. I've so far hit 98 dot which is damn close. And that was before crafter buffs were around)
That we are getting our own specials makes me overjoyed to say the least. And personally I can see getting ALOT of use out of the one directed at structures. Even if it's only lairs and turrets (Because I tend to take out alot of those damn things in PvP)
All cynisim and the like asside. I'm glad Commando is finally getting some loving. Most of the stuff sounds like once implemented it will just take most likely abit of tweekage. (Which is for example basically what they seem to have done with grenades as far as damage/dot is concerned). That stack sizes has been increased too is nice. But I'd also like to see the crafting issues surrounding commando weapons fixed as well.
Hrmm when i first read this i was near punching the air with excitement. Now im swinging between that and skeptical.
My one main question is:
Will the specials be enough to enable us to take JUST commando combat prof wise and still be as good dmg wise as if we took say carbineer to use their specials?
as for the other bits and bobs.
building/droid shot: nice idea provided they implement the stuff to go with it. as it stands it'd be useful against DWB stuff, the vette(i think), and turrets. they need to implement more destoryable structures otherwise it wont be worth it.
AOE's working proerly: HELL YES. big step in the right direction.
Grenades: there needs to be 20+ per stack IMO otherwise WS's wont want to make them. And they really need their dmg upped because other than PUPs theres no way to up their dmg(eg with guns you up their dmg with special attacks. grenades dont have this). Also enhancing their states would be a big help to us. and would make them far more used.
When??: my other main question. when will they implement this.
As for the new weapons, they'll probably be quested and im a Little disappointed their both flamers, would have liked to have seen a underslung carbine type gun or assault rifle or something.
like others im a little skeptical as they will need to apply alot of time and work to carry this one through and complete it properly but if they do it'll be a massive step in the right direction for us.
Well mostly WS dont make them because their lazy. I make grenades now and then. It's just that for the ammount of work put into them their currently underused. Before CU you could find grenades aplenty. Because they did MASSIVe damage. (especially protons) And certainly every WS in my guild cranked em out.
Post CU is a whole other story. Crafting process for greandes remained untouched. (And it needs a severe workover at least as far as enhancers are concerened. C12s take none. Which is fine. Their kinda like the CDEF of grenades anyway, C22's purport to take 4 none existant enhancers, glops and cryos actually have enhancers, thermals, imp dets and protons have an enhancer slot. But said enhancer does not exist. Same as mines)
So i'm taking a wait and see over the grenades. Because a stack of 5 is handy enough. Stack of 10 even better. But what really makes them worthwhile (Or at least some of them) are the dots currently. So the tweek there should settle matters in that regard I think. Now it just remains to be seen about the damage boost. Which they need like double what they have in most cases if you ask me as base. To make them worth the cool down timers anyway. Especially fi they reduced blast radius.
I'ma ctually a wee bit unhappy about that one. I like the 20m radius. But what ever.
JadenKatrell wrote:
Focus Fire: This ability decreases the area of effect on AOE weapons & gives a damage bonus. The damage bonus is only for non-AOE weapons.
Dead Bang Shot: This ability decreases the range of an AOE weapon & gives a damage bonus - damage bonus only for non-AOE weapons.
Overkill Shot: This ability has a long warmpup/cooldown but gives a great damage bonus. This damage bonus is for non-AOE weapons.
Why do all these specials EXCLUDE AOE weapons... Aren't most of our weapons AOE?
If you are adding specials that aren't useful for most of our weapons, why have them? I think the descriptions should read:
- My rationale for this is that the special would have two effects: (1) decreases the AOE range of AOE weapons and IN EXCHANGE for that decrease increases the primary target damage...essentially allowing the commando to divert some of their AOE damage to the primary target, or (2) just gives a damage bonus to non-AOE weapons.
- Hell I would even like to see the description read "ELIMINATES the area of effect on AOE weapons & gives a damage bonus"...that way we can shoot something witout hitting everything in the area (and without the hassle of constantly weapon switching.
Dead Bang Shot: This ability decreases the range of an AOE weapon & gives a damage bonus to ALL COMMANDO WEAPONS. The damage bonus is smaller than Focus Fire, but the ability increases the % chance of states sticking.
- Again WHY are we decreasing the effectiveness of AOE weapons and getting NOTHING for it?
- To keep this from overlapping Focus, I think this ability should have in increased chance of sticking states. We have NOTHING that helps us stick states as reliably as other classes, and we need it.
Overkill Shot: This ability has a long warmpup/cooldown but gives a great damage bonus. This damage bonus is for ALL COMMANDO WEAPONS. With AOE weapons, the bonus is smaller than with non-AOE weapons, but you get a bonus for splash/AOE as well.
With Focus Fire and Dead Bang, I would foresee the damage bonus being MUCH smaller for non-AOE weapons...they giving up no effectiveness so they get less.
Overkill shot would be the opposite...more effective with non-AOE weapons, and less effective (with a splash bonus) for AOE weapons.
Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 10-11-2005 08:37 AM
Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 10-11-2005 08:38 AM
Just read this and it's caused some serious interest for my part anyway.
Just wondered if this is a herald for another change in the way the GCW is with base structures changing so they are actually attackable, not just the NPC random spawn bases that you can't target or damage in any way.
The base system and GCW has been awaiting a serious revamp for a long time now and I was allways of the beleif that commando's should be able to damage buildings with attacks using heavy weapons.
Is there something in the new expansion pushing towards this or am I just dreaming ?
or is it something they have just pushed into the beta testing to see if it works ?
I know you might not be able to answer but it's worth a shot
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Why do all these specials EXCLUDE AOE weapons... Aren't most of our weapons AOE?