Commando Archive

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RaidCasto wrote:

Specials Id like to see(since state effects are 'built into' our weapons, I figure our specials should just be be damage dealing):

1. Overload Shot (highly damaging but lowers weapon cond faster)

2. Armor Break (if its not going to be built in)

3.Bombard (hurl multiple grenades with cost of all remaining action)

4. Focus (Does not do AOE but targets an indvidual for higher damage)

5. Spray (deos not do as much damage to 1st target but raises AOE damage)

6. Elemental Boost (up elemental damage on target)

How do these sound?

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Hmm I like these names.

Armor Break doesn't work.

Again only PvP is that useful. There is no Armor to break against NPCs sadly so this is rather useless save PvP, which would really tick people off anywho I imagine.

Interesting other ideas though.

it still makes more sense to me to retain the system where my crummy launcher pistol has something like a 10m radius blast than to give me a command which allows me to spread damage over an area.

If I get a command to spread damage over an area, with the combat system as it is - it's just a geometric varation of spray shot. And it wont allow me to apply a special to it such as concussion shot, stopping shot, advanced sniper shot, ... If you didn't want this then don't take crowd control as your 2nd master - take damage. There are many of us who did take commando knowing that area effects will be the way to go for crowd control. As well as I understand the CU - specials are supposed to cross profession - so you are calling for gimping the commando's utility.

Personally I think it is more appropriate to have some tier 4 commands which render any weapon to single target mode. What the single target commands do ... I don't care - but it'll appease all the people who are totally inept at being a commando because they cannot figure out how to use area attacks.

ACL 54 master commando is a raw recruit in my book. you cannot look at commando alone. Anyone who is just a commando isn't a full combat character.

The way all profession specials work is you can apply them to other weapons in the same catagory (melee or ranged) - if a change is going to make this go away then everything I setup in my commando(s) was done for nothing. I took the time from respec to figure out what I want in my characters. Changing it now is not right. FIXING it whatneeds to be done.

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AltharXXX wrote:

it still makes more sense to me to retain the system where my crummy launcher pistol has something like a 10m radius blast than to give me a command which allows me to spread damage over an area.

If I get a command to spread damage over an area, with the combat system as it is - it's just a geometric varation of spray shot. And it wont allow me to apply a special to it such as concussion shot, stopping shot, advanced sniper shot, ... If you didn't want this then don't take crowd control as your 2nd master - take damage. There are many of us who did take commando knowing that area effects will be the way to go for crowd control. As well as I understand the CU - specials are supposed to cross profession - so you are calling for gimping the commando's utility.

Personally I think it is more appropriate to have some tier 4 commands which render any weapon to single target mode. What the single target commands do ... I don't care - but it'll appease all the people who are totally inept at being a commando because they cannot figure out how to use area attacks.

ACL 54 master commando is a raw recruit in my book. you cannot look at commando alone. Anyone who is just a commando isn't a full combat character.

The way all profession specials work is you can apply them to other weapons in the same catagory (melee or ranged) - if a change is going to make this go away then everything I setup in my commando(s) was done for nothing. I took the time from respec to figure out what I want in my characters. Changing it now is not right. FIXING it whatneeds to be done.

As for what damage it will do in splash? I would hope it would be a signifacant percentage - not a fixed number like 1 or 0. What is significant? Anything other than 0%. 1% would be fairly disappointing, 5% might be right for some weapons...

Sure I knew splash damage is 0 points and that 0 point hit on a lair will agro every creature within 64m - I accepted that in the hopes that it would be fixed. How it's fixed is up to the guys who decide what balance is. Is it having a profession which can area concussion shot (daze) in combat? I certainly hope so.

As for grenades and how combat works - sure, if the grenade no longer has a 5 second hidden warm up and 5 second hidden cool down before you can shoot - then maybe then tossing a grenade and shooting your single target weapon will make sense. It wouldn't make sense if you are standing in the blast area. (You ever meet a vet who survived a grenade blast? I've met a few and I'll never forget them.)

I never said weapons should hit 'everything in view' - in fact they don't - they hit EVERYTHING in the space defined by their area - even stuff on the other side of a bulk head. I think that's just plain retarded.I'd love for that to be fixed. There are cases where it makes sense though. If I'm burning something with a flame thrower - it's not so hard to hit stuff just over the crest of a hill. ipso facto - grenades should be able to hit a target which you cannot see - hense the old expression "lob a grenade". (that would give a reason to have grenades...)

When I logged onto live after CU - I did not see Commando is supposed to be Offense 5, Defense 3, Crowd Control 1.

If crummy knock downs and lame state effects are what we get on the area weapons - I'd say pure commando is crowd control 1. (I belive my rifleman or BH can do a better job 'controlling' a crowd with snare, startle, confusion or underhand) Granted I don't know what their crowd control number is or what it's supposed to be. Lacking any crowd controls would be crowd control 0 ?? Crowd control is not drawing agro, crowd control is mezz. No one thinks a berserker is crowd control in eq2 - they can attack an area - taunt and area... crowd control is not agro generation but rather the ability to keep agro contained. (drawing it to yourself isn't something unque to commando - consider BactaSpray (pre 19.0))

Commando Defense is off the hook. My TKM-MSmuggler has lower defences than my Mcommando-mbh (tkm unarmed vs mbh with ranged weapon.) If that's a 3 ... okay ... I do not know. I would hate to see the devs fix heavy weapon defense and then bonk themselves and nerf commando defense lower. ... (granted I'm not collecting data to see what the differences in the character sheet mean - I'm accepting the character sheet data on face value.)

Commando Offense - stinks. This needs to be fixed. I think we all agree on this 100%. Fixing it means player crafted weapons which result in damage on par with other 'offense 5' professions. (A necrosis or quest weapon is not a 300+ dps high cap scatter pistol.)

Clearly there is popular support for your ideas. I'm just a boisterous descenter.

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I understand what your saying.

But you must consider, what we are suppose to be.

That is 5 Offense, 3 Defense, 1 Crowd Control.

The simple fact is the Devs screwed. They thought by some strange idea that this lived up to that role. However I don't think they properly tested anything on their own. They said they were going to Fort Tusken or whatever to test it's difficulty. Well at the begining of Testing everything around there was CL 90 or something. If they were testing that they must have all being using Jedi, or perhaps they lied in the Community update. I don't know. All I know is what they've done is really devoid of intelligence or any interest. To be honest by not giving us Specials I believe they made their work easier as all they had to was make some weapons. Probably due to shortage of time. I don't think what we have in-game is or should be anyone's expectation of Commando, even if it worked.

It is my understanding you want Crowd Control.

Now you must remember that our Profession's Weapons since no longer having Specials or AoEs in them are equal to any Rifle in Damage of equal CL.

That means when you say the PFT with a Cone Attack to from another Profession, that Cone Attack will also do Massive Damage. Lets say you use a Special to Root someone. With the PFT you can do more damage then say with your Pistol or Carbine, so you are in-fact dealing out hard hitting Root which I imagine must be favorable. Also remember the Special "Rage". With Rage you Boost the Damage you do on all your Root attacks, making for the ultimate Hard Hitting Crowd Control Charater, as Rifleman lacks our Damage Boost Special.

Does it not appeal to you to hurt something pretty bad and stop their Movement?

Commando's purpose is to boost damage. No you won't have a Mass Root anymore, but your Root attacks will do more Damage thus, help you defeat your enemy faster. Also isn't that better for PvE since you can then focus on oen Target and not worry about everything else.

If you want to slow an enemy groups movement you still have Grenades. I can't remember which Grenade does what or if one has a KD effect in it, but I think the Thermal Detonator. So say your Enemies have themselves clustered together. But you want to stop them all since your group needs some distance. You throw your Thermal Detonator and KD most of that Group.

Now you can't throw another Grenade for about 30 Seconds, but right after throwing that Grenade you can fire your Main Weapon. So yes you toss a Grenade for a Bonus Effect, perhaps giving up the time to fire one special if you hadn't thrown that Grenade, and can start shooting again right after.

So yes you throw a Grenade, and can fire your main weapon again, and focus on your target or targets if you choosewith whatever Crowd Control. I imagine you could really ruin someone's day by KDing them with a Grenade and then Rooting them when they get back up!

You see Commando this way would improve everybody's Profession, and also us. If we use our Weapons and Combine our Specials with another Profession Specials we really do stuff then.

Commando is suppose to make every type of Template more effective. Cause you see Commando's are Masters of Weapons. A Commando should be able to any Weapon and make it Deadlier. And that's what this.

So for the most part Commando upgrades Weapon Damage. That is what we could do if we worked like what I proposed.

The fact is there isn't suppose to be such Massive Corwd Control as we have now. As a Crowd Controller your job is to not Root everybody in one attack, but to Root or whatever as many folks as possible by hitting several people with the same Special. All your doing in your Group is stopping the Enemies movement. If you do that in One attack you defeat your purpose as once you use one Root attack your done, and can then work on Damage Dealing. To me that sounds overpowered, and it sure as will to those who are not Commandos.

Perhaps you should visit this again.

Clicky

If we were on the Left Side in the Center then I would agree with what we have now.

But we are on the Right more then the left. We should be better at damage then Crowd Control is you ask me.

No one's role has changed. This is what everyone should be. The fact that we aren't even with working AoEs means something is wack.

Look this is straight from their Documents.

"Commando
Primary Role: Heavy Weapon Specialist
Secondary Role: Medium Range Damage Specialist
Offense: Very Strong(5)
Defense: Moderate(3)
Crowd Control: Minimal(1)



The Commando is the specialist of Heavy Weapons. An entire line of unique heavy weapons are available in the Commando's arsenal. The Commando also receives many bonuses making them more proficient with standard weapons when combined with other profession skills. Whatever the damage dealing requirement is for a situation, the Commando has the answer."

We would fit that perfectly with what I proposed.

Now lets looks at what happens supposedly when combining certain Professions with Commando. Let's look at Crowd Control.

Commando/Carbineer
Offense 9
Defense 4
Crowd Control 5

With this you'll have awesome Damage, and some good Crowd Control. Your Defense will be Good, but perhaps a bit lacking. A very good blance if you ask me.


Commando/Pistoleer
Offense 7
Defense 6
Crowd Control 5

A very Balanced template, but not very stron in any Area. Still that Balance and the ability to serve many Roles is useful.

Commando/Smuggler
Offense 8
Defense 4
Crowd Control 6

This your Ultimate Commando Crowd Control. However your Strongest Area will still be Damage. But if you like Crowd Control and want to be a Commando, this is for you.


See Commando isn't going to give you the ultimate in Crowd Control. It will help slightly, but the biggest benefit you get is more Damage.

Now lets looks at my Template.

Commando/Bounty Hunter
Offense 9
Defense 7
Crowd Control 2

With this I could deal awesome Damage and soak up a lot of Damage. But I have little or nothing to stop an Enemy's Movement. So besides maybe a KD attack or two, I can't really stop anybody. I'll have to focus on the fact I take more Damage and Deal out more then them, but I must then hope that they don't KD or Root me as that will delay and hinder my Ability.

Does this make a little more sense. Maybe your not seeing what I said as the rest of us have. I hope this clarifies.

As to your second Issue.

While it is Nice to have a DoT built in our Weapons, like the Flame DoT from Flamethrowers, it will have to have downsides. First it will be very weak, because if you gave it's lots of damage the PFT becomes the most Powerful Weapon, in-game which is in-balancing. It will also probably will only work sometimes. You won't get a DoT then all of your first hits, which is also a downer if your trying to hurt your enemy some more.

So really you get stuck with either a weak frail DoT, or a really good one, but then your Main Damage will be real low.

So instead I gave the option to burn your Opponents. With Spray Shot you will then get a Good DoT /Effect for sure on your Enemy. That makes it a little more dependable.

Now the Dowside with this is, it will cost you a little time and Action, and you cannot set many Enemy's upon Fire. Now I know that's a bit sad, since we Dream I imagine of setting Crowds of people on Fire, but the Fire is a DoT. Thus that makes it Crowd Control. If we hinder groups of Folks Healing abilites that is something massive indeed. And again there will be those who see that as Overpowering, and is sort. I mean you effectively shut down a Group of Tough Clusttered Enemies Health rgeneration in One Hit. Although fun that may be, it's makes us once again Firemen, who will then just be used in Dugeons to set things on Fire. Now you can still do that with that ability, if you wanted to. You just can't do it one Blow, making things then a little more Tactical. Plus when you use Spray Shot you know that thing will be a blaze. Something I don't like is the fact of uncertainy we have with the PFT and not knowing when it will set something on Fire.

So I said well screw that, give me the damn option to set something on Fire. Ok I lose some Action and the chance to have used another Special, but at least I'll have hindered my target's healing ability.

Sorry I talk so much, but I'm trying to explain to you how it fits together for the best. Yes we lose some stuff that we have now, but it's only for better stuff, which finally would let us be Medium Range Damage Specialists.

Message Edited by TK-132 on 06-30-2005 10:15 AM

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I approve this message.

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(Our master level weapons should be better than a rifle that has no cert!)

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