Commando Archive
Thread: Can we lose the fighting pre-req?
Towim
Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:28 pm
#40
not sure if it is possible for a weapon to do both flame and blast damage, although that would be interesting.
If if the flamethrower was converted over to a melee weapon of sorts, and we recieved good enough defense mods that moving into melee range isn't suicide,that would work for me. Like a said a FT shooting flaming exploding balls 64m is odd.
and I also like the idea of the HAR as a single target mid range high damage AP weapon. And the dot effect maybe with a higher in the tree special sounds good, but it's not cureable I have a feeling we'd have to pay big in HAM costs or delay or that special bar they are talking about with the CB.
The napalm launcher concept of shooting shells filled with napalm is a really good idea. I just don't know how much luck we'd have getting a completely new weapon like that, although it might be possible to just split the flamethrower into two weapons the one with the exploding flaming balls and another for the melee one you spoke of.
Where do you feel the launcher pistol would fit in? leave it as is as a pistol? maybe just a bonus for commando if you feel like play with pistols and picking up pistoleer or smuggler?
-Towim Hode - Lowca
-Lofate - TC
Rachtor
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:25 am
#41
We move up the rifle tree. We SHOULD have skills and weapons that represent this. We DO have the option and skill points to Master Rifleman if we choose.
But being a master rifleman has no effect on commando weapons, it only effects if we want to wield a rifle. If I am using a rifle I am a rifleman NOT a commando.
We move up the carbine tree. We SHOULD have skills and weapons that represent this. We DO have the option and skill points to Master Carbineer if we choose.
But being a mastercarbineer has no effect on commando weapons, it only effects if we want to wield a carbine. If I am using acarbine I am acarbineer NOT a commando
We move up the pistol tree. We SHOULD have skills and weapons that represent this. We DO have the option and skill points to Master Pistoleer if we choose.
This is about the only one that WORKS since the launcher pistol is compatible with Pistol Attacks.
We move up the unarmed tree. We SHOULD have skills that represent this. We DO have the option and skill points to Master Teras Kasi if we choose.
But being a TKA has no effect on commando weapons, it only effects if we want to wield a TKA Weapon. If I am using aTKA weaponI am aTK ArtistNOT a commando.
Sorry if this seems rude, but I've said this at LEAST 4 times now. I DON'T want to use other weapons, Iwant to use weapons in the COMMANDO tree!. Just because I have the option to master them does not make it OK to use them.
And if we remove the unnarmed preqreq who cares? You all can still master the unnarmed tree on your own and get all the melee bonuses. But it'll be your CHOICE though, you won't be forced to do it! Why is everyone complaining that the commando line needs melee attacks? Why would they give commando special melee abilities if we have SUCH EASY ACCESS TO TKA like everyone SAYS we do. If you want special melee attacks just master TKA! Give me my big guns and leave the dirty fighting to the smugglers!
Rachtor
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:28 am
#42
Oh and FYI I'm not TOTALLY against us having some sort of melee attacks. But I TRULY can't see any melee attacks that we could receive from the Dev Team that would be USEFULL enough to us that wouldn't make the melee only professions feel cheated.
Because lets face it, the melee only professesions deserve the best melee attacks! I don't want to steal their spotlight that is really not fair.
Towim
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:36 am
#43
I see your point rachtor, that why I posted this, it's merely a way we could ask the dev's to go if the majority of the commandos want it.
Your idea of a commando using commando specific weapons only (FT, HAR,heavy weapons etc) is perfectly valid. I don't take your disagreement as rude =)
I'd love to hear your ideas on how our current weapons could be worked so that we'd be a fully capable fighter while sticking purely to heavy weapons.
-Towim Hode -Lowca
-Lofate -TC
garvin
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:56 am
#44
Rachtor wrote:
Oh and FYI I'm not TOTALLY against us having some sort of melee attacks. But I TRULY can't see any melee attacks that we could receive from the Dev Team that would be USEFULL enough to us that wouldn't make the melee only professions feel cheated.
Because lets face it, the melee only professesions deserve the best melee attacks! I don't want to steal their spotlight that is really not fair.
Pistoleers already have a Melee Attack...And Smugglers are getting some Melee Attacks as well...These don't cheat Melee Professions at all...
A Melee attack that would especially help us is some form of KD...our 2 biggest problems fighting opponents can often be 1) Getting them into range and 2) keeping them in range...so anything that takes them off their feet, while at the same time preventing them from fighting back is a plus...It's one of the main reasons many Commandos tend to Dabble TKA (for KD2 as well as the defenses and Meditation tree)...
The Devs have already set a precident of granting certain ranged professions Melee attacks...so this wouldn't be anything new...the difference with us is that we have a Melee Pre-Req (like Smugglers), so I'd expect us to have Melee Attacks along with our Ranged attacks...that's how I see a "Hybrid Profession"...not just the pre-reqs, but also Hybrid in the post abilities...
Rachtor
Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:16 pm
#45
The pistol seems kind of silly to me, it fires 4 or 5 missle pod things and causes HUGE explosions....but doesn't do AOE damage. Those huge explosions only seem to damage 1 creature. It just seems kinda silly.
The explosion and tracer effect on the rocket is great though! 
Could use that for the Napalm Launcher 
Towim
Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:03 pm
#46
*shrug* I just like the launcher pistol I took commando for the whole purpose of the effects (I decided to have fun lol)
I'm wondering (especially since they fixed the lag effect with the LP) if they could switch the LP's explosion effect over to the effect from the C12 frags. That seems to be more in line with a few mini rockets rather than that huge explosion that it currently has.
-Towim Hode -Lowca
-Lofate -TC
CantinaBandLeader
Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:26 pm
#47
i agree with taking away the brawler line
Maybe then add in its place the exploration line of scout, that way in a battle we can move faster on the land and have a longer and more effective burst run for when the battle gets a little hairy
this still gives the commando the same xp
--------------------------------------------------------------
[Rachtor said "...a commando/squad leader, since the trees did have somethings in common."]
--------------------------------------------------------------
with the combat rebalance on the way this would make the commando a powerful force in pvp. it would also allow us to use our heavy weapons more effectively.
the commando is a soldier not a martial artist
Ster
Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:48 pm
#48
If we did that then we would have the same pre-reqs as bounty hunter. Plus, it would be a bad idea to take something that is not a combat line in my opinion. It would mean we lose the little leverage we have.
CantinaBandLeader wrote:
i agree with taking away the brawler line
Maybe then add in its place the exploration line of scout, that way in a battle we can move faster on the land and have a longer and more effective burst run for when the battle gets a little hairy
this still gives the commando the same xp
--------------------------------------------------------------
[Rachtor said "...a commando/squad leader, since the trees did have somethings in common."]
--------------------------------------------------------------
with the combat rebalance on the way this would make the commando a powerful force in pvp. it would also allow us to use our heavy weapons more effectively.
the commando is a soldier not a martial artist
Curgenven
Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:57 pm
#49
The only way we should have anything scouty as a pre-req was if it was to lead more towards Squad Leader & Commando.
But as always, the best thing is not to remove the pre-req, but to make it useful within Commando
But as always, the best thing is not to remove the pre-req, but to make it useful within Commando
NinjaPizzaBoy
Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:36 pm
#50
I'll chime in on this one.
The Unarmed PreReq is a God send. A commando can stack his/her defenses quite easily. Moreover, we get access to warcry, intimidate, and beserk. These three skills give us a lot more flexibility in combat.
If we must have another line from a basic profession as a prerequiste to our class, then the unarmed line is the best by far. Bounty Hunters got the very short end of the stick on this one. So they can run a bit faster up hills and hide from some creatures?! We get status effects and easy dabbling. I will take commando on this alone anyday.
Now, on to Garvin's idea of melee attacks for ourselves:
Actually switching to our bare hands for a melee attack is quite cumbersome for the outlined reasons: weapon switching delays, lack of a Vibroknuckler certification, and the low damage/speed with our fists.
The melee attack must be usable by our heavy acid rifles and flamethrowers.
Garvin's idea of a melee knockdown seems flawed for a few reasons -
1. Pistoleers already have this ability. This would blurr class distinction and encroach on pistoleer ground.
2. We are supposed to be a high risk/high damage class. Knockdowns are the most safe attacks in the game. Your opponent cannot attack you back. This isn't quite in the flavor of the commando.
3. Balance. With the melee penalty when weilding a flame thrower or heavy acid rifle, you will find commandos who perform the knockdown with a flame thrower or heavy acid rifle, spam specials while the enemy is down, and then switch to the launcher pistol once the enemy stands up. While classes, skills, and help from other players can help a commando accomplish knock downs, they should not be able to be so comfortable within their own class.
Thus, a knockdown will not be adequate for the commando melee skill. Moreover, justa hard hitting move like Unarmed Hit 1, 2, & 3 would be too much like the bread and butter of the melee professions. While we share the random HAM damage as they do with these attacks, it is still ground that should be very much protected. Finally, it cannot be a melee attack that damages a specific HAM pool. We get a whole host of these attacks in the marksmen profession that would make it worthless, this is melee ground, and it goes against the random HAM/high damage nature of commando.
So here are the things the melee skill cannot be -
High Damage
Knockdown
Specific HAM Pool Damage
So what is in the flavor of commandos?
Commandos must get close to an enemy to do their best attacks. For a commando to attack a target with a melee attack with their flame thrower or heavy acid rifle, that melee attack must do something beneficial for the commando. We have already crossed more damage off the list. Thus, the attack must do decent damage (but less than the flame thrower and heavy acid rifle specials) that inflicts a negative state on the enemy. Knockdown is out of the question for the reasons outlined above. Posture down is much like knockdown and should not be considered either. Dizzy is worthless as anything that is within our melee range will already be standing.
It seems then we have three candidates:
Stun
Blind
Intimidate
All three would be great. Anything to help ourselves do our jobs with our flame throwers and heavy acid rifles would be great. Stun would let us hit the enemy a bit more. Blind would keep us alive longer. Intimidate would do both.
I would be happy with either of these three.
kenrw24
Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:33 pm
#51
To get back to the original question, and to answer in a summarized statement:
NO.
Any other questions? If they involve change, whether for good or for bad, the answer remains the same.
Have a nice day!
Rachtor
Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:02 pm
#52
"The Unarmed PreReq is a God send. A commando can stack his/her defenses quite easily. Moreover, we get access to warcry, intimidate, and beserk. These three skills give us a lot more flexibility in combat."
I've said this 3 or 4 times now. If it wasn't a pre-req YOU COULD STILL ELECT TO HAVE IT. You wouldn't be losing out on anything at all.
The idea of a commando switching to an unmarmed melee mode is just plain out of character and I think a rip-off to the people who have mastered a melee profession. But none of us are Dev's and no Dev's have replied to this, none of us have the final say so, and since I seem to be in the minority I'll stop replying to this thread here. One thing I've noticed about being the minority in the forums is that it doesn't always represent what the actual playerbase feels. That being said I'll just wait for the GCW revamp and stop posting anything about this sort of subject matter also. It just seems silly to debate like this
No sour grapes or anything, but a commandos job is to get in, blow stuff up, get out. Not jump into a field and start doing martial arts and we aren't supposed to be using explosive weapons at close range! It's just unrealistic even in a fantasy world.