Commando Archive

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Helios_SOE wrote:

There are lots of weapons that have skillbox requirements. That part of the certification system is currently broken, so you can't see it. This will be fixed with an upcoming TC publish. The emphasis for skillbox bound weapons is on iconic or profession defining weapons. All other weapons will be available to all others with the appropriate combat level. This will allow you to more easily pick up more professions using a weapon that is closer to your skill level (if you've already advanced in a different combat profession).

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Wow, it sounds like making the game so much more dependant on levels is more trouble than it's worth. You guys are certainly doing a lot to overcome the difficulties it creates. It sounds to me like it's causing more problems than it's solving.

(I really despise the damage multiplier based on level)

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StarNick wrote:
Its not necessarily a stupid system.

Theres now LOTS of weaponry available via the CU, and having a set one weapon (like a standard bowcaster) in one set skillbox...IS restrictive. The CU is about flexibility. Thus now we see some weapons that all can use (although not as great as the respective profession)...as well as more advanced versions of certain weaponry.

More flexibility = good.

Now...does that mean a T-21 rifle, or a DE-10 pistol will be certed to any CL 54 template? No...Iconic weapons that give a profession their identity will have CL + Skill box requirements. Some even have racial requirements: Helios mentioned in another thread, currently the bowcaster will have a racial requirement as well...whether or not ALL the versions, is still to be revealed

Regardless...every profession will undoutedly be having some form of Iconic weaponry. I believe it could very well be both iconic to star wars, and quite a few high level guns that constitute a profession now, Pre-CU (ie T-21 to rifleman, Scatterpistol to BH, DE-10 to pistoleer, etc).It perfectly ties in with the notion of every range profession attaining general range/melee mods...

Now...since All commando weaponry will be tied to our skill boxes...I do hope that means the PR too...and if so...hvy weapon mods (otherwise, let it be free cert)

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garvin wrote:

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JacobHiggins wrote:

You guys know how Bounty Hunters feel now, it seems like there slowly dismantling our profession as well, for a LONG LONG TIME NOW. We must team together!

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I love the BH community and I feel for the Profession...but it's not the same thing at all...

By leveling up high enough to gain a BH weapon (without taking any of BH) I can't go and hunt Jedi...I can't do any of the BH specials...I can't even use BH tracking or bomb droids...the BH "role" is still intact...

On the otherhand, if someone could level up and gain access to our Commando weapons, they'd be able to take any special and convert it into an AOE attack and also add a DoT...They'd be capable of being the same "Heavy Weapon Specialists" as we are, the only difference is they'd have slightly less accuracy and speed...They'd have taken our "role"...That's a huge difference.

That's why Commando, over all other professions, needs to make sure the majority, if not all, of our weapons are box restricted...Our weapons are our Role...Our weapons are what make Commandos unique...other professions have their weapons, their specials, as well as their other "abilities" to make them unique.

The good news is that Helios revealed that other high level weapons in other professions will be box restricted as well...And hopefully this change won't hurt BH's...Personally, when it comes to BH's and Commandos (as well as others), I'm more concerned about the recent Respec news (novice points for novice points and elite for elite), as it will hurt all those professions who lost pre-reqs via the CU (but that's a discussion for another thread).

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 01:12 PM

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My statement toward you is best discribed in MANY 4 and atleast one 5 letter word, but i'll be polite.

From what you said of your professions 'role' your basing it off the schematic that's on the main site?

If so....

I have a Master Rifleman. I didn't define his role as a 'Nuke' as per the devs schematic of roles.I defined him by the weapon he used and the TITLE he recieved at MASTER of that profession. Now he's less then he was.

And you're going to put out that your professions is defined by it's wpns? Aren't most of the combat professions? I give a RATS about specials playing a part of the 'role'. A rifleman uses rifles, you want to use one, take rifleman. (I tried to defend your professions right to your own weapons, FYI, but all professions should get this same treatment). If you want to use a pistol, take pistoleer.

But telling a player (when they're calling for a greater sense of community, in the face of change) what i consider to be equivalent to'Suck it up, this doesn't concern you.' is a bunch of BS.

P.S. i've been defending the CU in my guild chat and on teamspeak, this 'development' has lost that support.

My respect for you garvin ended within the first two lines of what i'm replying to.

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bobbybear wrote:

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StarNick wrote:
Its not necessarily a stupid system.

Theres now LOTS of weaponry available via the CU, and having a set one weapon (like a standard bowcaster) in one set skillbox...IS restrictive. The CU is about flexibility. Thus now we see some weapons that all can use (although not as great as the respective profession)...as well as more advanced versions of certain weaponry.

More flexibility = good.

Now...does that mean a T-21 rifle, or a DE-10 pistol will be certed to any CL 54 template? No...Iconic weapons that give a profession their identity will have CL + Skill box requirements. Some even have racial requirements: Helios mentioned in another thread, currently the bowcaster will have a racial requirement as well...whether or not ALL the versions, is still to be revealed

Regardless...every profession will undoutedly be having some form of Iconic weaponry. I believe it could very well be both iconic to star wars, and quite a few high level guns that constitute a profession now, Pre-CU (ie T-21 to rifleman, Scatterpistol to BH, DE-10 to pistoleer, etc).It perfectly ties in with the notion of every range profession attaining general range/melee mods...

Now...since All commando weaponry will be tied to our skill boxes...I do hope that means the PR too...and if so...hvy weapon mods (otherwise, let it be free cert)

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I agree, and I think this new system is a great idea. Now I have much more flexibility and can exercise a bit more creativity in the weaponI choose to weild. If I want to hold a pistol or some other type of weapon for roleplaying reasons then I can. And if as a Master Rifleman I decide I want to train in Pistoler then I will have access to a better quality weapon. This makes complete sense to me. If I am a master at using a rifle then I should be a little better at using a pistol then someone who is just starting out with pistols. I really like this idea alot and I think it will work out for the best once we get to see the skill and level requirements for each weapon and have a chance to try it out. My only wish is that I would be able to use a launcher pistol as a non commando, I love those things.

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I have totally mixed feelings regarding the new level system...especially now that we know that Commando weapons, for the most part, will be box restricted (hated the idea before).

On one end, it ends a lot of the bickering and bad feelings over "Who gets what"...For example, the Proton Carbine...BH's, Commandos and Carbineers wanted that weapon and now, we can all supposedly get it for about the same skill point costs (unless it becomes box restricted). So right there is the "sharing certs" idea that a few others have pushed for. As for the concern over a Swordman/Fencer being able to use a Rifle (which I've seen in other threads), the question is, why would they? They'd have no mods or specials to use with that weapon and could perform MUCH better with the weapons they are built to use. Being able to use a weapon and being able to use a well well are two different things...It takes the right amount of mods and specials to make a weapon useful with your template build.

But on the other end, I also can see the concern that we might be losing a huge part of the game that made it fun.In the past, if I wanted a weapon like the T21, then I'd have to go get it...before this change, if I wanted to get the Proton Carbine, then I knew I had to take up BH...it an aspect that makes Template building difficult, strategic and in that, more fun...Is getting the weapon I want worth what I have to give up to get it...but making Certs available by level, that takes away that "sacrifice" element that made template building strategic and fun. I can have my cake AND eat it too. I can get the Proton Carbine without having to sacrifice any points into BH, so a bit of the shine, to me, is taken off of the BH profession (only using BH as an example...I still want to try out an Commando/BH template for other reasons).

I've said it before and I'll say it again...Post-CU I want my template building choices to be as difficult as possible...I want to WANT every other combat profession to be part of my Commando template. If I want something from every Combat profession, then to me, the CU is a success...removing the cert'd weapons and moving them to a level system removes one of the reasons I wanted some of those other professions, and less is never good...

Because I'm so split, I want to see how this all pans out via testing before I make my final decission...the only thing I know for sure is that Commando weapons can not be part of this new system and must remain box restricted as they convert specials from other professions into Commando specials and in that, fulfill our basic role...to allow Commando weapons to be available to all people of the right level, would allow them to take on the Commando role without spending any points in the Commando profession...Thankfully, Helios and Starnick have already verified that Commando weapons are safe.

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DragonSnack wrote:

I also want toadd my concern for the respec ofbox for box respecing.

I had planned on usingmy recoverd SP to add some Pistoleer and TK boxes I do not have to give up a third master so I don't have any elite boxes to surrender. Based on ther dev's box for box if I keep Master Marksman I'll be o.k. but if I give up the lines I don't need then I'll have 52 unused SPs with nothing to use them on.

I shutter to think what a triple master has to give up.

The respec should be limited to combt prof's boxes only , regardless of the level of the box.

Restrict the respec to recovering SP from combat prof boxes and only allowingthe SP to be usedfor any other combat profs box..

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The CU is affecting a lot more than just the Combat Professions. Doctors are loosing the ability to craft meds. So someone who wants to craft meds, will have to pick up Bio-Engineer. Lets not even talk about the need for new weapons and armor. Entertainers mind buffs will also be changing.

I tend to think that everyone who is playing the game deserves the respec. Since the CU is effecting a lot more that just combat.

Message Edited by rexan on 04-14-2005 02:41 PM

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rexan wrote:

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DragonSnack wrote:

As usual Garvin is the voice of sanity.

I read the same comment Helios wrote and I got the same impression as Garvin

The cerets didn't get published because the list is not correct.
I took this to mean that they ae changing some of the weapons and the list no loinger matches the specs of the weappons.

Is ot p[ossible that the list says the LP give pistol XP anbd they changed it to giove HW XP?

I also want toadd my concern for the respec ofbox for box respecing.

I had planned on usingmy recoverd SP to add some Pistoleer and TK boxes I do not have to give up a third master so I don't have any elite boxes to surrender. Based on ther dev's box for box if I keep Master Marksman I'll be o.k. but if I give up the lines I don't need then I'll have 52 unused SPs with nothing to use them on.

I shutter to think what a triple master has to give up.

The respec should be limited to combt prof's boxes only , regardless of the level of the box.

Restrict the respec to recovering SP from combat prof boxes and only allowingthe SP to be usedfor any other combat profs box..

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Not to burst your bubble, but there CU is affecting a lot more than just the Combat Professions. Doctors are loosing the ability to craft meds. So someone who wants to craft meds, will have to pick up Bio-Engineer. Lets not even talk about the need for new weapons and armor. Entertainers mind buffs will also be changing.

So theattitude that only combat profession (by name) deserve arespec should be checked at the door. Everyone who is playing the game deserves the respec.

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Pelf wrote:

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garvin wrote:

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JacobHiggins wrote:

You guys know how Bounty Hunters feel now, it seems like there slowly dismantling our profession as well, for a LONG LONG TIME NOW. We must team together!

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I love the BH community and I feel for the Profession...but it's not the same thing at all...

By leveling up high enough to gain a BH weapon (without taking any of BH) I can't go and hunt Jedi...I can't do any of the BH specials...I can't even use BH tracking or bomb droids...the BH "role" is still intact...

On the otherhand, if someone could level up and gain access to our Commando weapons, they'd be able to take any special and convert it into an AOE attack and also add a DoT...They'd be capable of being the same "Heavy Weapon Specialists" as we are, the only difference is they'd have slightly less accuracy and speed...They'd have taken our "role"...That's a huge difference.

That's why Commando, over all other professions, needs to make sure the majority, if not all, of our weapons are box restricted...Our weapons are our Role...Our weapons are what make Commandos unique...other professions have their weapons, their specials, as well as their other "abilities" to make them unique.

The good news is that Helios revealed that other high level weapons in other professions will be box restricted as well...And hopefully this change won't hurt BH's...Personally, when it comes to BH's and Commandos (as well as others), I'm more concerned about the recent Respec news (novice points for novice points and elite for elite), as it will hurt all those professions who lost pre-reqs via the CU (but that's a discussion for another thread).

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 01:12 PM

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My statement toward you is best discribed in MANY 4 and atleast one 5 letter word, but i'll be polite.

From what you said of your professions 'role' your basing it off the schematic that's on the main site?

If so....

I have a Master Rifleman. I didn't define his role as a 'Nuke' as per the devs schematic of roles.I defined him by the weapon he used and the TITLE he recieved at MASTER of that profession. Now he's less then he was.

And you're going to put out that your professions is defined by it's wpns? Aren't most of the combat professions? I give a RATS about specials playing a part of the 'role'. A rifleman uses rifles, you want to use one, take rifleman. (I tried to defend your professions right to your own weapons, FYI, but all professions should get this same treatment). If you want to use a pistol, take pistoleer.

But telling a player (when they're calling for a greater sense of community, in the face of change) what i consider to be equivalent to'Suck it up, this doesn't concern you.' is a bunch of BS.

P.S. i've been defending the CU in my guild chat and on teamspeak, this 'development' has lost that support.

My respect for you garvin ended within the first two lines of what i'm replying to.

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You totally read my post wrong and that's probably my fault...I did not say suck it up or tell them to live with it...I never even said that this change was a good thing or that we didn't care...What I said is "Bounty Hunter is different then Commando and we have different reasons for feeling the way we do about this weapon change"...Please go back and re-read my post, taking into account that this is the Commando forum dealing with Commando issues.

The post I was replying to stated "Now you know how BH's feel", but this isn't the same thing and that statement, whether the author meant it or not (which I doubt since I respect the poster), was very condencending to the Commando community and off base to the issue we are discussing in this thread. Commandos, like BH's, have been hurting for a long time, but unlike BH's not everyone canbe a BH without dabbling in the Bounty Hunter profession (we can't hunt Jedi or do any of the other cool BH related things without BEING a BH)...on the contrary, the reason for this thread starting was to prevent everyone from being a Commando without ever taking up box one of Commando...So, that's why I responded the way I did...and I did it WITH respect and just tried to rationally explain the difference, not belittle their feelings.

Let me ask you this...Can a Commando/TKM/Smuggler use a Rifle AND do Rifleman specials without taking up any bit of Rifleman just because they can use a rifle? Can this same template join a group and fulfill the same group role that a Rifleman would using a rifle? Could a Pistoleer join a group and fill the same role a Squald Leader can just becuase they can use the SL weapon? Can a Rifleman do the same things a Bounty Hunter can do by using the same weapons as a Bounty Hunter, but without dabbling any of BH just because they could use a BH weapon? The answer is NO to all of those questions...

BUT...if Commando weapons were sharable by level, a Bounty Hunter, a Rifleman, a Pistoleer, a Carbineer, a Squad Leader, etc, could all do the same things a Commando could do with ANY ranged special they had...the only difference is that they wouldn't have our grenades...

Rifleman can snipe (which I think needs lots of love)...Bounty Hunters can hunt Jedi (which I think needs lots of love)...Fencers can cause Bleeds...TK's can go armorless...etc. etc. etc...All professions have something post-CU that they are built to be the best at, and if it's falling short in the current CU plans, then I hope they get much love in those areas...but let's be COMPLETELY honest, Commando's key role is our weapons...Our Weapons MAKE our specials...The way you feel about Rifleman being defined completely by the weapon they hold, while being shared by many, isn't shared by all...other's may feel that it takes holding a Rifle and being able to perform Rifleman like deeds with that rifle that truely makes a Rifleman. To do all that, you have to BE a Rifleman. Commandos on the otherhand have everything invested IN our weapons.

That's how I'm defining the "roles"...Commandos are now unique in this game...Other Ranged Combat professions have 2 basic parts, weapons and specials...Commandos have one basic parts...weapons...Other professions have specific schemes/purposes that helps their solo/group roles...Commandos also have one specific scheme/purpose, but unlike the other professions, ours is centered around our weapons.

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 02:53 PM

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 02:57 PM

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garvin wrote:

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Ko-aIri wrote:

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Helios_SOE wrote:

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garvin wrote:

This is something that I posted elsewhere, but since Helios has been so awesome in keeping an eye on our concerns, I was hoping, if he has time, he could address this concern as well...it's a pretty big one....taken from the HOC chat.

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*Le_Jedi_Fou* Hello devs. Question : with the new CU, it's very hard to start another combat profession when you're already have a Combat Level. Fighting a mob level 3 unarmed with Novice Brawler will grant no XP because your combat level is too high (Master Carbineer). What is your plan about that ?

*Keldarin* The new weapon certification system should also help alleviate this problem. Once you have leveled to a certain point with a given profession you will be able to use a comparably leveled weapon from another profession. You would not be nearly as powerful as the same level player from that profession but it will help greatly in earning experience for the new profession.

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 09:42 AM

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Commando weapons should all have a skill box requirement in addition to their level requirement. In the current build they don't work this way. That's a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming TC publish. Nothing has changed for commando certs with the new system.

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Sorry to hijack, but Helios:

What steps will be taken to insure that profession identity is not compromised? Obviously, this works great for commando, but there are many iconic weapons for other professions that should be available for only those professions, including some from the CU:

Bounty Hunter: Light Lightning Cannon, Scatter Pistol
Rifleman: Berserker Rifle, T-21 Rifle
Pistoleer: Geonosian Sonic Blaster, DE-10
TKA: Massassi Knuckler, Black Sun Knuckler
Carbineer: Elite Carbine, Nym Slugthrower
Swordsman: Power Hammer, Scythe
Combat Medic: Alliance Disruptor
Squad Leader: Intimidator Pistol

Etc, etc. Will these unique weapons be preserved to their professions? Otherwise, what is the point to having seperate combat professions?

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This was sort of answered previously in another thread I believe...Professions will still have mods that make them use those weapons BEST...A Fencer, for example, picking up a T21 will (1) lack the proper skill mods to use the weapon with any type of accuracy or speed & (2) lack valid specials to truely utilize this weapon (Melee specials only work with Melee weapons and same for Ranged weapons with Ranged specials)...A Fencer using a Swordsman weapon, will be able to do some damage, but not as much as a Swordsman using that same weapon...The Swordsman would have greater speed & accuracy since his 2H weapon would be looking for specific 2H mods to that make it more useful.

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garvin wrote:

Pelf wrote:

My statement toward you is best discribed in MANY 4 and atleast one 5 letter word, but i'll be polite.

From what you said of your professions 'role' your basing it off the schematic that's on the main site?

If so....

I have a Master Rifleman. I didn't define his role as a 'Nuke' as per the devs schematic of roles.I defined him by the weapon he used and the TITLE he recieved at MASTER of that profession. Now he's less then he was.

And you're going to put out that your professions is defined by it's wpns? Aren't most of the combat professions? I give a RATS about specials playing a part of the 'role'. A rifleman uses rifles, you want to use one, take rifleman. (I tried to defend your professions right to your own weapons, FYI, but all professions should get this same treatment). If you want to use a pistol, take pistoleer.

But telling a player (when they're calling for a greater sense of community, in the face of change) what i consider to be equivalent to'Suck it up, this doesn't concern you.' is a bunch of BS.

P.S. i've been defending the CU in my guild chat and on teamspeak, this 'development' has lost that support.

My respect for you garvin ended within the first two lines of what i'm replying to.

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You totally read my post wrong and that's probably my fault...I did not say suck it up or tell them to live with it...I never even said that this change was a good thing or that we didn't care...What I said is "Bounty Hunter is different then Commando and we have different reasons for feeling the way we do about this weapon change"...Please go back and re-read my post, taking into account that this is the Commando forum dealing with Commando issues. The post I was replying to stated "Now you know how BH's feel", but this isn't the same thing and that statement, whether the author meant it or not (which I doubt), was very condencending to the Commando community and off base to the issue we are discussing in this thread. Commandos, like BH's, have been hurting for a long time, but unlike BH's not everyone can BE a BH without dabbling in the Bounty Hunter profession...on the contrary, the reason for this thread starting was to prevent everyone from being a Commando without ever taking up box one of Commando...So, that's why I responded the way I did...and I did it WITH respect.

Let me ask you this...Can a Commando/TKM/Smuggler use a Rifle AND do Rifleman specials without taking up any bit of Rifleman. Can this same template join a group and fulfill the same group role that a Rifleman would? Could a Pistoleer join a group and fill the same role a Squald Leader can? Can a Rifleman do the same things a Bounty Hunter can do by using the same weapons as a Bounty Hunter, but without dabbling any of BH? The answer is NO to all of those questions...

BUT...if Commando weapons were sharable by level, a Bounty Hunter, a Rifleman, a Pistoleer, a Carbineer, a Squad Leader, etc, could all do the same things a Commando could do with ANY ranged special they had...the only difference is that they would have grenades...

Rifleman can snipe (which I think needs lots of love)...Bounty Hunters can hunt Jedi (which I think needs lots of love)...Fencers can cause Bleeds...TK's can go armorless...etc. etc. etc...All professions have something post-CU that they are built to be the best at, and if it's falling short in the current CU plans, then I hope they get much love in those areas...but let's be COMPLETELY honest, Commando's key role is our weapons...Our Weapons MAKE our specials...The way you feel about Rifleman being defined completely by the weapon they hold, while being shared by many, isn't shared by all...other's may feel that it takes holding a Rifle and being able to perform Rifleman like deeds with that rifle that truely makes a Rifleman. To do all that, you have to BE a Rifleman. Commandos on the otherhand have everything invested IN our weapons.

That's how I'm defining the "roles"...Commandos are now unique in this game...Other Ranged Combat professions have 2 basic parts, weapons and specials...Commandos have one basic parts...weapons...Other professions have specific schemes/purposes that helps their solo/group roles...Commandos also have one specific scheme/purpose, but unlike the other professions, ours is centered around our weapons.

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I/m cutting my reply down, but i've reread your post, i still hear what i heard. (I will admit, it may not have been intended the way i heard it).

STILL i don't really care (or base my believes off of)what the devs have all of the sudden DICTATED a character's profession's 'role' is after i've had them for about 2 years. My first character like i said in my post is a Rifleman, i define him by his weapons, ie RIFLES. My secondcharacter is a different story i went MTK/0400 CM/0400 Doctornot because of the wpns (all one of them worth using, VK's) but abilities, ie he's zabrak, so he can use vitalize andequilibirum,he can heal health/action and mind(CM), rez, force of will, powerboost, and meditate wounds (from mind healing)away by using meditate. Two completely different styles of play. One of these accounts will be deleted when CU comes out, due to these changes.

P.S. Garvin, I understand that this is in the Commando Forums, but i didn't get here by going to the forums seeing 'commando' and hitting the button for it. You have no idea howJacobHiggins got here and saying it's just a commando issue is BS. I used the Devtracker, and the weapon availability change affects every combat profession and every player. So i don't care what forum it's on.

Message Edited by Pelf on 04-14-2005 03:11 PM

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pyromonkey89 wrote:

This was sort of answered previously in another thread I believe...Professions will still have mods that make them use those weapons BEST...A Fencer, for example, picking up a T21 will (1) lack the proper skill mods to use the weapon with any type of accuracy or speed & (2) lack valid specials to truely utilize this weapon (Melee specials only work with Melee weapons and same for Ranged weapons with Ranged specials)...A Fencer using a Swordsman weapon, will be able to do some damage, but not as much as a Swordsman using that same weapon...The Swordsman would have greater speed & accuracy since his 2H weapon would be looking for specific 2H mods to that make it more useful.

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so basicly we are almost being forced to become a commando/ranged profession so we can become great commandos?
i dont know about you guys but i want to be a tkm/commando and melee special dont work for commando so that means means us commando/meleers are gonna get screwed there

maybe im not understanding this all right but i dont wanna be a commando/ranged profession but with commando only needing 0004 marksman and unarmed 4 that mean i have more room for another proffesion so maybe ill get a good special from some profession with the CU


this is sooo fustrating >.<
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I'm sorry...you lost me a bit, but I'll try and respond and please let me know if I'm way off in my response...

Commandos are not being forced to become Commando/Ranged to be great Commandos, because we already have all the Heavy weapon Ranged mods we will need to be great Commandos...We also gain specials via Marksman that will be converted into Commando ranged specials via our Heavy Weapons...beyond that, we have our Grenades. This will make us great Commandos, but if we want to be BETTER Ranged Commandos then we'll want to dabble more Ranged professions...

But on the otherhand, not everyone will want ot be BETTER Ranged Commandos...some will want to be BETTER Melee Ranged Commandos, and thus, we'll want to dabble Melee (which I will be)...Think about it this way...I play mainly PvE, so I want to "control" my opponent as much as possible to make sure that they get into and stay in my best Commando range...that makes dabbling Melee a good idea, plus gaining the TK ability to go armorless lifts some of the hinderances placed on us by wearing armor (which includes increasing our movement abilties during combat)...

Personally, I think there are just as many reasons for Commandos to dabble Melee as there are to dabble Ranged...It all depends on your playstyle and how you want your post-CU game to be. Ranged will obviously be the preferred way to go as many of us will want as many ranged specials as possible to use with our ranged weapons, but others will want to combine much of the Melee benefits with our Commando attacks (much like we use to use KD followed by a FlameSpecial as a preferred combo)...

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Pelf wrote:

P.S. Garvin, I understand that this is in the Commando Forums, but i didn't get here by going to the forums seeing 'commando' and hitting the button for it. You have no idea howJacobHiggins got here and saying it's just a commando issue is BS. I used the Devtracker, and the weapon availability change affects every combat profession and every player. So i don't care what forum it's on.

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Again...please point to where I said this is "just a Commando Issue"...I never said that...All I said was "The issue that Commandos have with this change is DIFFERENT then the issue that BH's have with this change"...I didn't even say either one was more important then the other...Because this is the Commando Forum, I just addressed the reasons they are different and expressed the Commando side of the story (I'm not a BH so I can't speak for them, it would be disrespectful if I tried)...I never said that Jacob wasn't entitled to his opinion or that he should keep it out of here...and I never said that it was "just a Commando issue"...

This is why I think you are misreading my post...you seem to be adding a lot into it then is really there...Explaining the difference is a far cry from what you are stating.

I apologize if I'm totally way off here, but I think that you are so upset over this change (and justified in being upset) that you are reading a lot more into my response then is there...it's meant only as to define the specific Commando concerns and how they are different from the concerns of others...nothing more or less...

Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 03:30 PM

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Pelf wrote:

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garvin wrote:

Pelf wrote:

My statement toward you is best discribed in MANY 4 and atleast one 5 letter word, but i'll be polite.

From what you said of your professions 'role' your basing it off the schematic that's on the main site?

If so....

I have a Master Rifleman. I didn't define his role as a 'Nuke' as per the devs schematic of roles.I defined him by the weapon he used and the TITLE he recieved at MASTER of that profession. Now he's less then he was.

And you're going to put out that your professions is defined by it's wpns? Aren't most of the combat professions? I give a RATS about specials playing a part of the 'role'. A rifleman uses rifles, you want to use one, take rifleman. (I tried to defend your professions right to your own weapons, FYI, but all professions should get this same treatment). If you want to use a pistol, take pistoleer.

But telling a player (when they're calling for a greater sense of community, in the face of change) what i consider to be equivalent to'Suck it up, this doesn't concern you.' is a bunch of BS.

P.S. i've been defending the CU in my guild chat and on teamspeak, this 'development' has lost that support.

My respect for you garvin ended within the first two lines of what i'm replying to.

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You totally read my post wrong and that's probably my fault...I did not say suck it up or tell them to live with it...I never even said that this change was a good thing or that we didn't care...What I said is "Bounty Hunter is different then Commando and we have different reasons for feeling the way we do about this weapon change"...Please go back and re-read my post, taking into account that this is the Commando forum dealing with Commando issues. The post I was replying to stated "Now you know how BH's feel", but this isn't the same thing and that statement, whether the author meant it or not (which I doubt), was very condencending to the Commando community and off base to the issue we are discussing in this thread. Commandos, like BH's, have been hurting for a long time, but unlike BH's not everyone can BE a BH without dabbling in the Bounty Hunter profession...on the contrary, the reason for this thread starting was to prevent everyone from being a Commando without ever taking up box one of Commando...So, that's why I responded the way I did...and I did it WITH respect.

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I/m cutting my reply down, but i've reread your post, i still hear what i heard. (I will admit, it may not have been intended the way i heard it).

STILL i don't really care (or base my believes off of)what the devs have all of the sudden DICTATED a character's profession's 'role' is after i've had them for about 2 years. My first character like i said in my post is a Rifleman, i define him by his weapons, ie RIFLES. My secondcharacter is a different story i went MTK/0400 CM/0400 Doctornot because of the wpns (all one of them worth using, VK's) but abilities, ie he's zabrak, so he can use vitalize andequilibirum,he can heal health/action and mind(CM), rez, force of will, powerboost, and meditate wounds (from mind healing)away by using meditate. Two completely different styles of play. One of these accounts will be deleted when CU comes out, due to these changes.

P.S. Garvin, I understand that this is in the Commando Forums, but i didn't get here by going to the forums seeing 'commando' and hitting the button for it. You have no idea howJacobHiggins got here and saying it's just a commando issue is BS. I used the Devtracker, and the weapon availability change affects every combat profession and every player. So i don't care what forum it's on.

Message Edited by Pelf on 04-14-2005 03:11 PM

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Message Edited by Pelf on 04-14-2005 03:39 PM